For King & Country (308)

[Skydiver]

i think it was a whole 'deal with the devil'....take down adam, who admittedly was being a bad boy, in exchange for the thousands they could help.

[Feast of the Muse]

It occurred to me while rewatching this episode today that Helen must have been pregnant with Ashley during the flashback episodes when they were tracking Adam since John disappeared right after. I wonder how far along she was and how long after she found out?

I was thinking this as well, but connecting the idea to their walk on the bridge (where John says he'll write poetry, sonnets perhaps). I'm sure she asked him many times about stopping the killing, but the look on her face at the end of that conversation before he zorts off is just so...intense. I'd say she's pregnant and she knows it at that point, and it's killing her that John is not stable.

Which makes the current-day cuddle in this episode even more complex. When is the last time she was in his arms without a knife to her throat? You have to wonder, since they were not married, how progressive her views were back then. Obviously they are having sex, but given his madness and the time (wouldn't that have been scandalous, in that time/place, not being married?) I can't imagine that happened often. I think it's conceivable that the last time she got to curl up with him, she got pregnant with Ashley.

ETA: Ok, I mixed some things up. At the point they have that talk on the bridge, she'd probably already stored Ashley somewhere. He offers, "when this is all over, we'll start our dance anew." She says "Count on it" just as he leaves. She's clinging to hope that she can have a normal family life with him, and presumably, resume the pregnancy.

[JanSam]

ETA: Ok, I mixed some things up. At the point they have that talk on the bridge, she'd probably already stored Ashley somewhere. He offers, "when this is all over, we'll start our dance anew." She says "Count on it" just as he leaves. She's clinging to hope that she can have a normal family life with him, and presumably, resume the pregnancy.

Yes, since the walk on the bridge was suppose to be around 1910; I'd say Ashley was already stored. I interpreted the comments "we'll start our dance anew" and Helen's "Count on it" to mean she wouldn't stop hunting him to stop him from killing and John was aware that she wouldn't. The intense look and how she was lost in thought as Watson approached was because she was torn between her feelings toward John and her ethics as she felt she couldn't allow him to keep killing even if that meant she would have to kill him to stop him.

[Feast of the Muse]

Yes, since the walk on the bridge was suppose to be around 1910; I'd say Ashley was already stored. I interpreted the comments "we'll start our dance anew" and Helen's "Count on it" to mean she wouldn't stop hunting him to stop him from killing and John was aware that she wouldn't. The intense look and how she was lost in thought as Watson approached was because she was torn between her feelings toward John and her ethics as she felt she couldn't allow him to keep killing even if that meant she would have to kill him to stop him.

Oooh, how did you know what year it was? 'Cause that it is some helpful information!

[JanSam]

When talking about FK&C at TSE one them gave the three time periods that would be shown. Sorry I can't remember if it was M.A.D. or Lee Wilson (think it was Amanda).

[RealmOfX]

Yes, since the walk on the bridge was suppose to be around 1910; I'd say Ashley was already stored. I interpreted the comments "we'll start our dance anew" and Helen's "Count on it" to mean she wouldn't stop hunting him to stop him from killing and John was aware that she wouldn't. The intense look and how she was lost in thought as Watson approached was because she was torn between her feelings toward John and her ethics as she felt she couldn't allow him to keep killing even if that meant she would have to kill him to stop him.

That was my take on it too.

When talking about FK&C at TSE one them gave the three time periods that would be shown. Sorry I can't remember if it was M.A.D. or Lee Wilson (think it was Amanda).

Amanda mentioned it in several interviews too and Pax Romana set the date as 1908 or a little earlier.

[LadyGalaxyJ]

I remember reading an interview with MW where he said it was in 1908.

[tinnec]

In this episode two things have bothered me:

1. How did Adam die? He got shot in the shoulder--shouldn't have killed him, unless she hit that one vein that bleeds a ton--and then jumped off the cliff but was transported away by John and then into the river. What killed Adam? Did he drown himself?

2. Was John dying? And what of? Did he OD? And what did Helen keep injecting him with?

[AresLover452]

I just re-watched this episode!!!! I loved the Cambodia scene even though John was SO HIGH on opiates! I still love when Helen lies next to him.

[meredithchandler73]

In this episode two things have bothered me:

1. How did Adam die? He got shot in the shoulder--shouldn't have killed him, unless she hit that one vein that bleeds a ton--and then jumped off the cliff but was transported away by John and then into the river. What killed Adam? Did he drown himself?

2. Was John dying? And what of? Did he OD? And what did Helen keep injecting him with?

1. I believe that Helen assumed that Adam died since he was shot and fell from a great height into the river below and didn't come back to London and cause mischief. He asked Druitt to let him go/let him die in the river and Druitt does that. You see that Adam floated in the water and ended up in Hollow Earth where he was taken in and healed. It is certainly possible that Adam would have just bled out had he not be found.

2. I never thought John was dying, just that he was drugging himself heavily with anything/everything that might stamp down the energy being inside him which causes him to kill. Not sure what Helen was giving John, but probably something to let him sleep and give him time to get all the other junk he has been taking to get out of his system.

Helen laying down beside John and pulling his arm around her is still one of the most powerful moments in the series for me.