'Trial and Error' (206) General Discussion

[Kaiphantom]

Not the second time where the entire ship locked down, the first time with the nano-plague. It's the same situation here. The city realizes something is wrong and takes steps to quarantine it when it gets out of hand, also knowing that some people are safe. But, admittedly, it's not nearly as invasive as this AI.

Again, I will say fire alarm. Same principles. We don't think of fire alarms as AI.

I seriously doubt it's the Faith aliens, because that doesn't fit with the computer running the simulation at the exact same time. If it were just the aliens doing it, it wouldn't be showing up in the computer system (unless they really feel like hiding their presence).

I'm not sure if it is, but if they can make a planet and a sun (and possibly save TJ's baby), then they can hack into Destiny's systems easily enough. I gather the simulation was made on purpose to be found, as part of whatever they had planned. After all, Franklin directed Rush towards it, who was then able to get the ship to jump again.

[morbosfist]

Again, I will say fire alarm. Same principles. We don't think of fire alarms as AI.

Yeah, but fire alarms are generally incapable of actively tracking an infection on a nano-scale and only reacting when it spreads, nor capable of distinguishing between safe and dangerous elements. Bit more to it. Plus there's all the other automatic behaviors, such as the shield shrinking in response to power loss.

I'm not sure if it is, but if they can make a planet and a sun (and possibly save TJ's baby), then they can hack into Destiny's systems easily enough. I gather the simulation was made on purpose to be found, as part of whatever they had planned. After all, Franklin directed Rush towards it, who was then able to get the ship to jump again.

Which Rush did by overriding it. If the Faith aliens really wanted it dealt with, it should have been harder.

[Misfits]

Irrelevant. He tried, and even succeeded in giving her freedom for a short while. And now he's trying to keep her mind occupied so she doesn't go nuts sitting in the room, AND giving her a way she can finally contribute to life aboard Destiny. Or is it that you want her to stay as a freeloader?

Regardless of what reason you think he's doing it, the fact remains that he is giving her what she wants. When someone gives you money to buy something of yours, do you think, "What evil and creepy intentions this man has, for he is taking something from me!"

Very relevant. In fact, crucial.
Cloe doesn't want freedom, for freedom's sake.
She wants to be normal. Rush can't help her in that capacity anymore than he can ascend. Cloe is obviously going through a transformation and studying Destiny. The more Cloe transforms and understands Destiny, the more she becomes a threat to Destiny and the Crew.
Safety of the Crew is the primary priority. Which is not Rush's primary priority. His dream is.

Since we have no evidence of that, you'll have to retract the statement, accusatory baseless assumptions are the tactics of politicians in an election cycle. I expect a bit better here.

In fact, there was every reason to believe it might work. At the least, it was a chance, when no one else had any ideas before. So yes, how dare Rush come up with the only possible idea. He should have been like everyone else and sat around on his ass doing nothing!

Geez, this Rush-hate knows no bounds.

I don't have to retract anything. If Rush's actions and motivations are beyond your comprehension, then, your loss, not mine.

As for sitting around on his ass doing nothing, let's examine that!
Rush concocts the neuro-interface chair concoction and Cloe continues her understanding of Destiny and thereby becoming more of a threat to Destiny and the Crew.
Rush does nothing, Cloe is confined and her becoming a threat is lessened and contained.
I'll take the latter, thank you.

Doing something wrong is worse than sitting around on the ass doing nothing.

[Kaiphantom]

Yeah, but fire alarms are generally incapable of actively tracking an infection on a nano-scale and only reacting when it spreads, nor capable of distinguishing between safe and dangerous elements. Bit more to it. Plus there's all the other automatic behaviors, such as the shield shrinking in response to power loss.

They're the ancients. They can make advanced fire alarms. The point being: they created a system that can scan for infections on the nano scale, and when detected, activate certain protocols. That's not an AI. Automatic behaviors aren't an AI. Everything on Atlantis that we've seen, *I* could code as a set of If/Then statements. Using Basic (and nerds here know what Basic is).

AI is Artificial Intelligence. It's essentially a human brain, and thus sentient.

Which Rush did by overriding it. If the Faith aliens really wanted it dealt with, it should have been harder.

Maybe that was their whole point? I mean, Franklin WAS directing Rush towards that.

[Kaiphantom]

Very relevant. In fact, crucial.
Cloe doesn't want freedom, for freedom's sake.
She wants to be normal. Rush can't help her in that capacity anymore than he can ascend. Cloe is obviously going through a transformation and studying Destiny. The more Cloe transforms and understands Destiny, the more she becomes a threat to Destiny and the Crew.
Safety of the Crew is the primary priority. Which is not Rush's primary priority. His dream is.

She wants people to look at her like normal, and not like they do now. Rush gave her that. And yes, horrible Rush for giving the crew safety. Everyone on the ship actually doesn't want safety; they want their lives to be in even more peril!

I don't have to retract anything. If Rush's actions and motivations are beyond your comprehension, then, your loss, not mine.

Oh, okay, baseless accusations are fine, then; great! That means that you're trolling, you haven't actually watched the shows, you flunked out of school, you're living in your mom's basement, and/or you're looking for your next crack hit. Isn't this baseless accusation stuff fun? I don't have to provide any proof! For people who demand such proof, I can merely say that it's beyond their comprehension. See how well that works? =)

Note to the comedy impaired: That is what is known as humor to point out flaws in an argument. A satire/parody. See: The Daily Show.

As for sitting around on his ass doing nothing, let's examine that!
Rush does nothing, Cloe is confined and her becoming a threat is lessened and contained.
Rush concocts the neuro-interface chair concoction and Cloe continues her understanding of Destiny and thereby becoming more of a threat to Destiny and the Crew.
I'll take the latter, thank you.
Doing something wrong is worse than sitting around on the ass doing nothing.

So, your stance is that we should never take a chance, because we could end up doing something wrong. Gotcha!

[Skiznot]

After the third dream loop I was worried I wasn't going to like this episode but then it took an unexpected direction. Oh and I know Greer is often thought of as an action character but I thought Jamil's performance and the writing on Greer were top notch. Just showing the scenes between Eli and Ginn while seeing Greer's reaction were brilliant. I do think Greer was too quick to trust that girl though and someone else has probably already said this but she seemed to distract Eli from the program running.

Lots to read as I couldn't get much internets with the elections clogging up everything.

[Sp!der]

I really loved the episode! But Not finding out that Rush knows about the bridge is getting ridicoulus, really. I hope they finding out before the 10 episodes airs... otherwise Ill be really pissed. Other than that all the parts of the episode were great. Rush/Young/Scott/Camille and Eli/Greer/LA girl ... it was fun to watch Eli & Greer.. some bonding there

[Meshakhad]

I really liked the episode, but I share the concerns about how it ties into the story arc.

The Young bits were very well-done. Destiny tapping into the crews' minds was unexpected, but I can buy it. They also touched on the issue of Destiny-as-character. It looks like the ship doesn't have a full-blown AI like some predicted, but it does have a very smart autopilot. Rush wasn't quite right about it having no desires - it wants to complete its mission. Protecting Destiny is key to this, which is why it ran the simulations and probed the minds of the crew.

As for Eli and Ginn... I was an Eli/Chloe shipper from day one. I was hoping throughout Season One that Chloe and Scott would eventually break up and Eli would get with Chloe. And I was not happy at first to see that Eli would have a new love interest in Season Two.

That has all changed. I am now an ardent Eli/Ginn shipper.

The reason is simple: Eli and Ginn are awesome together. Geeky love is extremely cute, and the writers were smart to use their common background in math and Ancient technology. They have also avoided the "Eli-makes-pop-culture-reference-that-Ginn-doesn't-get" joke so far, with Eli taking pains to explain unfamiliar Earth terms. And Greer acting as facilitator was funny. My only complaint was how quickly things progressed - Eli and Ginn had only just met. I don't think a long buildup was wanted or needed, but a single episode - one that spans only a few days - was a little quick.

[Briangate78]

I think Joe M and Paul M should right all the episodes. lol. Let's see we got from them..

Space
Divided
Subversion
Awakening

and now..

Trial and Error.

[EvilSpaceAlien]

I think Joe M and Paul M should right all the episodes. lol. Let's see we got from them..

Space
Divided
Subversion
Awakening

and now..

Trial and Error.

You forgot Incursion and Intervention.

[MattSilver 3k]

I think Joe M and Paul M should right all the episodes. lol. Let's see we got from them..

Space
Divided
Subversion
Awakening

and now..

Trial and Error.

Hey now, kiddo, stop right there. For my favourites, Rob Cooper's got Time and Aftermath, Martin Gero's got Lost, Alan MacIForgotTheRest has Justice, and Brad Wright got Cloverdale. JM and PM have Trial and Error. Everybody's got favourite episode love from me (Twenty bucks on Carl's The Greater Good next week winning out for me). Let's not get crazy and forget the others involved...

[Misfits]

She wants people to look at her like normal, and not like they do now. Rush gave her that. And yes, horrible Rush for giving the crew safety. Everyone on the ship actually doesn't want safety; they want their lives to be in even more peril!

Oh yeah! Rush accomplished that beautifully. Since the chair scheme was exactly that, a scheme, her freedom would have lasted only until her next blackout, maybe a day, at best?
Rush is willing to put everybody's safety at peril just so that he can realize his dream, or is this concept escaped your enlightened sentience.

Oh, okay, baseless accusations are fine, then; great! That means that you're trolling, you haven't actually watched the shows, you flunked out of school, you're living in your mom's basement, and/or you're looking for your next crack hit. Isn't this baseless accusation stuff fun? I don't have to provide any proof! For people who demand such proof, I can merely say that it's beyond their comprehension. See how well that works? =)

Baseless? Only to you who continue to ignore the base. Try taking those blinders off for a change.

Note to the comedy impaired: That is what is known as humor to point out flaws in an argument. A satire/parody. See: The Daily Show.

Maybe you should stop living in The Daily Show and watch Stargate Universe Episodes for a change.

So, your stance is that we should never take a chance, because we could end up doing something wrong. Gotcha!

Not quite. You don't take a chance for the sake of taking a chance.
If an action is prudent, you take it. If it will make things worse, you don't. You don't take action knowing it will make things worse, do you? Never mind, according to you, you do.

[Kaiphantom]

Okay then. Misfits, provide the proof for your assumptions.

[Misfits]

After the third dream loop I was worried I wasn't going to like this episode but then it took an unexpected direction. Oh and I know Greer is often thought of as an action character but I thought Jamil's performance and the writing on Greer were top notch. Just showing the scenes between Eli and Ginn while seeing Greer's reaction were brilliant. I do think Greer was too quick to trust that girl though and someone else has probably already said this but she seemed to distract Eli from the program running.

You have to remember that it was Ginn that shot Dannic and surrendered. And she has been cooperating with Stargate Command. And Greer was present when Ginn was telling Wray in the interview in 'Aftermath' Obviously, all these things add up very well in her favor.

[morbosfist]

Okay then. Misfits, provide the proof for your assumptions.

He won't ever do it. We've gone through the same crap in the "Awakening" thread. He'll accuse you of wearing blinders until the cows come home, and never admit he could be wrong.

The simple fact is there is no proof that Rush did it solely as an excuse to get Chloe off the hook, and every indication he did intend for it to work.

They're the ancients. They can make advanced fire alarms. The point being: they created a system that can scan for infections on the nano scale, and when detected, activate certain protocols. That's not an AI. Automatic behaviors aren't an AI. Everything on Atlantis that we've seen, *I* could code as a set of If/Then statements. Using Basic (and nerds here know what Basic is).

AI is Artificial Intelligence. It's essentially a human brain, and thus sentient.

Going by that definition, we can't really say that Destiny has an AI either. More complex if/then statements, yes, but that's about it. Rush makes the point that the ship doesn't have a personality.

Weighing each on their merits, there's nothing inherently different about the two situations apart from how they're implemented. Atlantis tracks something wrong determines infection spread and transmission, and reacts accordingly. Destiny takes the more complex tact of analyzing behavior and creating a scenario to test it. Much more complex factors, but ultimately the same type of behavior.

Maybe that was their whole point? I mean, Franklin WAS directing Rush towards that.

I got the impression that Franklin was trying to convince him it was important, especially at the end.