'Trial and Error' (206) General Discussion

[morbosfist]

Really? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Let's see. Nothing will satisfy you unless it's exact word for word definition. Jennifer Keller is the perfect example. Not according to you, though.

Don't try to change the subject. You got called on being wrong. There is no "unused" part of the brain. Everything has a purpose.

And you know this fact because...... Rush said so. Again, Rush speaks only TRUTH Myth.

So you keep saying, an opinion if there ever was one. You have no proof.

And you know for a fact that Chloe has a virus, that affects her but not Scott after a transfusion.
Do you even think about what you're saying before you say it?
What has been established is that Chloe is transforming, AND she is studying Destiny.
This process has not been one of one process completes before the other starts. They're occurring concurrently, or has that escaped your keen awareness?
Nobody has established that it is a virus or anything like such. In fact, nobody knows what is causing the change. So much for learning biology.

*clears throat*

TJ: While Chloe's blood continues to show atypical antibiotic properties, Lt. Scott seems to have gone back to normal.

There's your proof right there, or should I explain exactly what that statement means? Like I said, learn biology. Learning is not connected to physiological changes whatsoever. Whatever is happening to Chloe is biological, and learning can in no way affect that.

[KEK]

Anyone else get the Inception reference with the wedding band?

Nice spot.

[Sami_]

But will you still feel that way if the Next episode has us hitting the reset button again. So Eli's kiss and pretty much everything in this episode was all virtual reality. And how much would it suck if it reset all that back to cloverdale and they're still on that planet trying to save Scott? Not that it is, or will, but what if? Given the obvious reset abuse. Otherwise a lot of cool things that never happened in this past episode.

I don't expect them to keep it up nor does it absolve them of all the poor episodes in the past but I hope they can keep making episodes to the quality of Trial and Error.

[timmciglobal]

Good but not great.

The "ship interfacing with his brain" really does bother me though because this is all leading to a mystery of destiny's mission that I'm worried won't make any sense considering the time frame that destiny was allegedly launched. Not to mention that technology seems extremely advanced for Destiny considering no such thing exists in Atlantis millions of years later or in any other found ancient tech.

Overall the episode was 6/10 for me. I was really hoping the dreams were from the planet builders and it was going to be left as a mystery as to who gave young the chance to "play out the fight" a few times before actually having to be in it versus it being a real dream/some ancient ship.

I thought the dreams were leading to young making a tactical decision to give Cloe up which would seem very unlike him but the viewer would have the perspective of having seen these dreams to forgive young while the crew's opinion would change/alter because of his perceived willingness to sacrafice Cloe. I think that would of been a much better route to go then "the ship can read your mind and is depressed about you being a crappy leader so it stopped"

Tim

[morbosfist]

But that's just it, I DON'T KNOW full well. The past TWO episodes have been > 50% virtual. By association, the next episode will be virtual.

The entire crew was encased in spider silk (in pathogen) and are dreaming as Chloe is feeding on them in her new genetic form. We're just cycling through the various dreams, Scott, Young, who's next? Eli?

Just because two episodes have had dream sequences does not mean the next will. Assuming it to be so, again, is pessimism for the sake of pessimism. There's no logic to it except to be negative.

[KEK]

I don't expect them to keep it up nor does it absolve them of all the poor episodes in the past but I hope they can keep making episodes to the quality of Trial and Error.

Interesting how opinions differ. I found it to be probably the worst ep of this season so far.

[Misfits]

<Snipped by Moderator>

So you keep saying, an opinion if there ever was one. You have no proof.

Rush lying is not an opinion. It is an established fact. A conversation between Rush and Simian would be a hoot.

<Snipped by Moderator>

TJ: While Chloe's blood continues to show atypical antibiotic properties, Lt. Scott seems to have gone back to normal.

There's your proof right there, or should I explain exactly what that statement means? Like I said, learn biology. Learning is not connected to physiological changes whatsoever. Whatever is happening to Chloe is biological, and learning can in no way affect that.

And you state the above as concrete proof that what Chloe has is a virus. How lame.
It is your ultimate statement that a virus can't be transmitted from one person to another through a blood transfusion. Do you even consider what you're claiming before you say it?
What the Blue Aliens did to Chloe, nobody knows what they did or how they did it.
Whatever was present in Chloe's blood that made her immune to the Alien plant life in 'Cloverdale', was transferred to Scott through a blood transfusion. However, whatever caused those extra immunity to appear was not transferred through the blood transfusion.
To claim that it was a virus would be hallucinatory on your part.
Try learning common sense and another class of remedial reading might help greatly.

[morbosfist]

<Snipped by Moderator>There is not a separate consciousness in her brain, only a compulsion to act in a certain manner. Unless she starts talking as an entirely different person, you cannot claim otherwise.

Rush lying is not an opinion. It is an established fact. A conversation between Rush and Simian would be a hoot.

Rush having lied is a fact. Rush lying in this instance is an opinion. Learn the difference.

And you state the above as concrete proof that what Chloe has is a virus. How lame.
It is your ultimate statement that a virus can't be transmitted from one person to another through a blood transfusion. Do you even consider what you're claiming before you say it?
What the Blue Aliens did to Chloe, nobody knows what they did or how they did it.
Whatever was present in Chloe's blood that made her immune to the Alien plant life in 'Cloverdale', was transferred to Scott through a blood transfusion. However, whatever caused those extra immunity to appear was not transferred through the blood transfusion.
To claim that it was a virus would be hallucinatory on your part.
Try learning common sense and another class of remedial reading might help greatly.

Clearly, you're going to need this explained to you.

Chloe's "atypical antibiotic properties" is a sign that her body is fighting a viral infection, as per TJ's test using other pathogens. TJ notes that Scott's blood has returned to normal, meaning his system too displayed atypical antibiotic properties and returned to normal. In order words, Scott's immune system neutralizes the pathogen, while Chloe's hasn't. You need to learn biology, because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Scott was infected, which is how he was cured, but his system fought it off. In order for changes to be made to Chloe's body, a viral agent must be present that is modifying her DNA, causing tissue growth, and affecting brain chemistry. What do you suggest is happening? That the blues have magic powers?

To put it in the simplest terms, unless you believe that the stork still delivers babies, even a passing knowledge of human biology should be enough to realize that sweeping genetic modification does not happening unless there is a biological agent causing it. <Snipped by Moderator>

[Misfits]

<Snipped by Moderator> There is not a separate consciousness in her brain, only a compulsion to act in a certain manner. Unless she starts talking as an entirely different person, you cannot claim otherwise.

Let's see, Chloe blacks out, goes about doing things that she has no recollection of, is able to write Ancient and Blue Alien language, is able to solve equations that even Rush can't solve, etc... Yeah, you're right. She's a closet nerd.

Rush having lied is a fact. Rush lying in this instance is an opinion. Learn the difference.

Rush have lied constantly. Rush is telling the truth in this instance is an opinion, only your misguided opinion, mind you.

Clearly, you're going to need this explained to you.

Chloe's "atypical antibiotic properties" is a sign that her body is fighting a viral infection, as per TJ's test using other pathogens. TJ notes that Scott's blood has returned to normal, meaning his system too displayed atypical antibiotic properties and returned to normal. In order words, Scott's immune system neutralizes the pathogen, while Chloe's hasn't. You need to learn biology, because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Scott was infected, which is how he was cured, but his system fought it off. In order for changes to be made to Chloe's body, a viral agent must be present that is modifying her DNA, causing tissue growth, and affecting brain chemistry. What do you suggest is happening? That the blues have magic powers?

That is the point of Chloe's change, NOBODY knows what's happening to her, or what is causing it.
To say positively that it is a virus would be a leap of faith.

[morbosfist]

Let's see, Chloe blacks out, goes about doing things that she has no recollection of, is able to write Ancient and Blue Alien language, is able to solve equations that even Rush can't solve, etc... Yeah, you're right. She's a closet nerd.

Not proof of a separate consciousness. While under the influence of the Ancient repository, O'Neill could do much the same things, and was compelled to act even against his will. Do you thus suggest there was another consciousness within his mind?

Rush have lied constantly. Rush is telling the truth in this instance is an opinion, only your misguided opinion, mind you.

Rush has lied in certain situations, and only those situations where we know for a fact he lied can be included among them. Saying this instance is a lie is an opinion, because you cannot prove he did.

That is the point of Chloe's change, NOBODY knows what's happening to her, or what is causing it.
To say positively that it is a virus would be a leap of faith.

So what is it then? Fairies? Magic? Learn some biology. Chloe's blood contains an agent which can counteract and neutralize the alien spores. Through a blood transfusion, Scott was given this agent, for it is the only way the spores in his own bloodstream would have been neutralized. Scott's body then neutralized this agent, rejecting it as a foreign invader as any good immune system would do. Calling it anything but a virus, or any type of pathogen if you want to generalize, is to forsake all logic. It can only be something active in Chloe's bloodstream, because if it weren't Scott would not have been cured.

[Misfits]

Not proof of a separate consciousness. While under the influence of the Ancient repository, O'Neill could do much the same things, and was compelled to act even against his will. Do you thus suggest there was another consciousness within his mind?

That is just not the same. O'Neill was conscious when changes took place. He was aware of his actions while they were happening. Chloe is totally different. She blacks out while she does these things. The only thing she has exhibited while conscious is solving the equations and recognizing Blue Alien language.
Similar, yes, however, definitively different.

Rush has lied in certain situations, and only those situations where we know for a fact he lied can be included among them. Saying this instance is a lie is an opinion, because you cannot prove he did.

Actually, Rush telling the truth is rarer than him lying. The problem with this discussion is that it's just as hard to prove he's telling the truth or he's lying.
When confronted with such a situation, additional factors must be looked at in order to ascertain whether he's telling the truth, or he's lying.
From my point of view, with the other factors weighed in, Rush is lying from the start.

So what is it then? Fairies? Magic? Learn some biology. Chloe's blood contains an agent which can counteract and neutralize the alien spores. Through a blood transfusion, Scott was given this agent, for it is the only way the spores in his own bloodstream would have been neutralized. Scott's body then neutralized this agent, rejecting it as a foreign invader as any good immune system would do. Calling it anything but a virus, or any type of pathogen if you want to generalize, is to forsake all logic. It can only be something active in Chloe's bloodstream, because if it weren't Scott would not have been cured.

I never said I knew what it was. Blue Aliens that are advanced enough to construct intergalactic space crafts, yeah, I have no idea of their medical science or such. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. I don't claim to know.
However, I object to your statement of your opinion as fact.

[Mav]

Definitely one of the better episodes of the series thus far.

Finally nice to see Eli start to get over Chloe. He's saved her life how many times and yet.. she's still with Scott ;\ I can't stand her character, she's like the ditzy college bimbo of the ship..

Now hopefully the Lucian Alliance girl (I don't remember her name, I didnt pay much attention to the characters of the Alliance, my bad) isn't playing Eli. I don't think she, her eyes were full of tears when she watched his journal so unless the writers were putting that in as a red herring, I think she's legit. Which is awesome. Nerd love in scifi shows is few and far between, Eli deserves to be happy for ONCE in his life, so yes please let the hot red head who's pretty friggin smart, be on the up and up. Please. SGU could use a little romance to combat the doom & gloom every week.

[SGeff]

Regardless, the fact remains that Chloe is studying Destiny. Whatever it is in her brain is understanding Destiny in ways that Rush is not able to.
Neuro-interface Chair sends data into the brain, as far as we know and seen in 'Human'.
So, something in Chloe's brain is studying Destiny and Rush send more Destiny data into her brain. Hmmmmmmm.... I wonder why.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out, do you? In fact, you have to have blinders on to ignore this altogether.
See the problem here is the concept of change with more understanding versus change, than understanding.
If you believe that change must precede any understanding, then, you would have a point. Additional understanding would not affect change because change has run it's course.
But that is not the case here, Chloe is changing while understanding Destiny, like a symbiotic process. Thereby, inducing more data into Chloe would affect the rate of change.
Must be, this way, you can learn the parts that you missed because of your blinders. I mean, why watch the show if you're going to miss everything?

Well the whole Rush theory is interesting, but not right. Let's see, there are others in the room, some people like Brody has been studied the chair for long time. In fact he is the one operates to transfer data when Rush is on the chair, so he would be able to find out if Rush is transfering data or not.

Don't say Rush think they are dumb and wouldn't find out. It is just a risk that Rush wouldn't take. He could simply take Chloe to the place he's been working(Pathogen) or bring the notebook to her(T&E). Right? So why he would risk to turn the entire crew against him?

[morbosfist]

That is just not the same. O'Neill was conscious when changes took place. He was aware of his actions while they were happening. Chloe is totally different. She blacks out while she does these things. The only thing she has exhibited while conscious is solving the equations and recognizing Blue Alien language.
Similar, yes, however, definitively different.

But the core similarities are all that is important. O'Neill acted against his will, consciously or not. Chloe does the same, only she blacks out. She is compelled to act, but this is not proof that another consciousness is controlling her.

Actually, Rush telling the truth is rarer than him lying. The problem with this discussion is that it's just as hard to prove he's telling the truth or he's lying.
When confronted with such a situation, additional factors must be looked at in order to ascertain whether he's telling the truth, or he's lying.
From my point of view, with the other factors weighed in, Rush is lying from the start.

You've admitted it's an opinion. Thank you.

I never said I knew what it was. Blue Aliens that are advanced enough to construct intergalactic space crafts, yeah, I have no idea of their medical science or such. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. I don't claim to know.
However, I object to your statement of your opinion as fact.

Yet you cannot give a logical reason to explain everything I've told you, which is a fact that the show has presented to us, both by dialogue and by the scenes shown.

You can deny it as fact, but the only fact is Chloe is, as canonically stated, fighting some sort of infection per her abnormal antibiotic activity.

[senilegreen]

Now we def know that Destiny was playing with TJ

Does anyone else think it's entirely possible that TJ's dream was just a scenario generated by the Destiny in order to keep her from completely falling apart since she is necessary to the mission?

It would be reasonable to come to that conclusion. That the ship is capable of interacting with the human brain at some level of brain function is not surprising, given "the chair" and everything else that has been described about the Ancients at the point of their history in which the ship was built. If anything, what is a bit out of the reasonable is expecting Rush to be able to read an Ancient screen describing the simulation and knowing what it is doing!

For those wondering why Atlantis wouldn't have been like this ship - remember, the Ancients existed for a few millions of years and went through definite periods in which they were different. Atlantis didn't have those stone-carved control stations found on some planets in SG-1, etc.