'Seizure' (215) General Discussion

[The_Asgard_live]

You can not just say "good writing" is the answer to the problem.

Its a tv show. Good writing is the answer to every problem.

As far all the rest. I accept that for whatever I say, you will tell me they didn't mention something else. That is not the point.

McKay, Woolsey, Sheppard = Atlantis fan service, without mentioning Atlantis. That is odd to me, maybe your brain doesn't work that way.

The plot revolves around Jonas' planet of origin, former SG1 member without mentioning Jonas. Again, odd to me, apparently not you. That Teal'c and everything else doesn't get mentioned, makes sense to me (but would have been welcomed anyway)

As for how to mention Jonas...

Scott: Sir, are you sure we are doing the right thing?

Young: No, but earth has a long history with this planet, in fact one of their own served as a member of SG1. I wish he had been here but too bad he... stubbed his toe.

Perfectly plausible conversation on the balcony overlooking the Stargate.

So if they can forgive him for saving their planet, then surely the Langarens will be able to forgive Earth as they are going to protect them from a possible LA attack then? by your logic

My logic?

Langaran's didn't say no, they said they wanted their scientists to look over the calculations. Instead of listening or waiting, earth takes over their leaders, their facilities, and risks their population without consent to prove a point. Ultimately to send 80 people supplies. 80 vs. millions? billions?

O'neill approves this. Again, the premise seems silly to me.

[Egle01]

Personally I loved the part where McKay comes at the beginning and one of the Atlantis soundtracks plays on. I thought that was a nice touch

There was also SGA soundtrack beats when Rush explained Eli what's ascension in "Air". It worked both times, imo.

*lets out a Rush fangirl squee*

Okay, now rest of the episode... Until the very end they had me wondering if there's really going to be a stable connection and get a supply line to Destiny. Part of me keeps thinking it would've been an on-going storyline and maybe in season 3 or 4 they would've gotten to send something through the wormhole.

Aside from seeing Perry too young next to Rush, I really liked their scenes together. I was bummed when the infamous Perry sleeping with Rush scene didn't happen in "Sabotage", at least I kind of got it season later. The simulation in a simulation had a Inception-y feel to it.

Gods damn it, I don't want this show to end!

5 to go.

[Pecisk]

Langaran's didn't say no, they said they wanted their scientists to look over the calculations. Instead of listening or waiting, earth takes over their leaders, their facilities, and risks their population without consent to prove a point. Ultimately to send 80 people supplies. 80 vs. millions? billions?

Errr, which part of "LA should never attack Destiny again?" you didn't get? They had facts that there is communication between Langarans and LA. They suspected that they already in their bill and Destiny is in big danger. Yes, they were (luckily) wrong, but they had to check. Of course, they should have done it more discretely. Also, they still don't understand what LA wants from Destiny. If is this some kind of weapon Rush haven't discovered yet - but LA got their hands on in their archives? You'll never know and better be sure than sorry. And Telford's anger against LA is fully justified - they lost two high ranked people in attack - and with potential of loss of millions. It showed that LA (or this fraction of it) are ready to do what they're thinking they have to to make things right, to balance Earth out of equation of galaxy.

[D Toccs]

I enjoyed Amanda and Rush storyline and how it shows how much more advance and knowledgeable Rush have become in controlling destiny then ELI is, when Rush destroyed Destiny, hopefully that was not just a flaw in the simulation or Perry underestimating ELI and over estimating Rush abilities.

Rush destroying the ship in the simulation doesn't show he was more knowledgeable then Eli, I don't know how you got that. All Rush did was dial back the shields while in an FTL jump. Everyone on the ship knows that that would result in Destiny's destruction, it was a major plot point a few episodes back in Deliverance.

[traylormatt]

"Scott: Sir, are you sure we are doing the right thing?

Young: No, but earth has a long history with this planet, in fact one of their own served as a member of SG1. I wish he had been here but too bad he... stubbed his toe."

Minus the obvious joke ending there, this to me is an example of bad writing. Putting a line in to benefit some viewers does not progress a story, which is what good writing does. It entertains or it progress, for the masses, not a few. It would only been seen as good writing to those who want to hear that, like you. I am not saying I wouldn't have welcomed it I am just saying that it was certainly not needed and would have been no more than a nod to fans. It has no needed merit within a story.

Your logic said that once Jonas saved the planet, it was behind them, so surely now that earth is protecting/saving their planet from LA, the Langarens will forgive and forget like they did with Jonas.

We have seen when people return to other planets they don't automatically say other people they met from that planet last time or or may have helped. Yes Jonas was different to a degree, but same principal.

As for millions or billions VS 80. What number makes it acceptable? Say youre the leader of their world. Someone says, we need a mission to rescue 80, you say no, they say 800, you say no, they say 80,000 do you consider? what about 80,000,000? what then? What number is ok. Is it proportionate to your current population, say once it is over 50% of the population it is acceptable, if the number possibly rescued is more than their population?

Are the Langarens not greatful to Earth for destroying the goa'uld or the Ori. or for SG1 helping Jonas save the planet? are they not in some kind of gratitude to them?

They said they wanted time, and at the time earth was under the impression that The Langaran's were in talks with the LA. Not true in the end, but still their belief which seemed to be confirmed to them by their wanting to wait possibly months and not even properly opening up communications with earth to hear their lead scientist give a short presentation. It would arouse suspicions.

As Pecisk said, better sure than sorry. Also their logic was protecting them. At the time when they thought the LA were in talks with them, the LA probably did not have McKay's solution for dialing safely, which would have resulted in the planet blowing up. What they were offering was protection from the LA (which they now have), and a way to safely dial the 9th chevron and help earth out (who have done much more for them than they have received). LA would have taken them by force, killing as many people as needed, then blown the planet up in the process.

[The_Asgard_live]

Errr, which part of "LA should never attack Destiny again?" you didn't get?

The part where that matters? So, you are telling me if you were in charge, you'd risk the lives of an entire planet to save 80 people and a rust bucket? You'd risk screwing over allies?

There is also that I don't buy the LA as some sort of major threat. Did not the Goa'uld prevent humans from advancing technologically. Wasn't earth mostly a unique fluke? How are they repairing their formly Goa'uld ships. How do they make more after we destroy them. They had to steal Rush to dial Destiny last time.

Even if there is a weapon on Destiny, it would be far less advanced than the ones on Atlantis, and what threat is it to the Milky Way?

Why are the LA going to be more of a threat in a few months after the Langaran's check the calculations to their own satisfaction than they are right now?

[knowles2]

Rush destroying the ship in the simulation doesn't show he was more knowledgeable then Eli, I don't know how you got that. All Rush did was dial back the shields while in an FTL jump. Everyone on the ship knows that that would result in Destiny's destruction, it was a major plot point a few episodes back in Deliverance.

ELI the simulated version was trying to undo Rush handy work but he could not, as was clearly demonstrated by the collapse of the shields and the destruction of the vessel.

[Pecisk]

Maybe no one could undo it. Just food of thought. Scary one, though.

[traylormatt]

The part where that matters? So, you are telling me if you were in charge, you'd risk the lives of an entire planet to save 80 people and a rust bucket? You'd risk screwing over allies?

There is also that I don't buy the LA as some sort of major threat. Did not the Goa'uld prevent humans from advancing technologically. Wasn't earth mostly a unique fluke? How are they repairing their formly Goa'uld ships. How do they make more after we destroy them. They had to steal Rush to dial Destiny last time.

Even if there is a weapon on Destiny, it would be far less advanced than the ones on Atlantis, and what threat is it to the Milky Way?

Why are the LA going to be more of a threat in a few months after the Langaran's check the calculations to their own satisfaction than they are right now?

As far as earth is concerned there is 0% risk. As I have already said, this is not just the arrogant wisdom of one man, but the collective minds of earth's best and brightest. 0% risk to pen up a supply line to a great discovery and some of your people. Yeah I would say that is worth 0% risk.

the Goa'uld may have been in charge but they weren;t building the ships them selves, they had people do it, the same people that will now be in te LA, so I am guessing that they are able to build the ships as well as the Goa'uld could. They are also fine with slave labour and killing people just to get one person (Ginn). And though earth was a slight fluke, clearly not completely. The Tollan are the best example of being able to advance. Langarans themselves show how people have advanced, they are what 1940s according to McKay. Aschen also. All of the many different species that competed in the space race that Carter joined in on. I forget the episode but the space faring species that were escorting hostages but crashed on a planet and then SG1 found them when the prisoners were pretending to e the guards. So really, quite a few species have developed plenty of tech that could help the LA build ships to dominate the galaxy and take on earth (not saying those species would have, but certainly nullifies your point about Goa'uld stopping humans developing tech. yes some weren't humans but still able to fight against the Goa'uld which is what they were trying to prevent.)

Does the excistence of the planet builders not show you that there may be tech out there so valuable it would be worth trying to attack Destiny again? I mean, any race that gets their hands on tech left behind by them would be formidable at the absolute least, really they could dominate. Not saying the planet builders WOULD help but Destiny opens us to galaxies of tech that we could use, or the LA could use. I mean out of all the galaxies ,the inhabitants of the MW seem to be the weakest. Pegasus had all of the Lanteans tech (their newest and best anyway), Ida and the Asgard (more advanced than anything in MW currently, except the ancients), The Ori in their galaxy. That is just the galaxies we know of. So imagine theses hundreds of galaxies that could be opened to the LA. The data on the galaxies that the Seed ships has found. Certainly worth it. what is not to buy about that. Destiny is simply the doorway to greater things.

LA wont be more of a threat, but they will be if they suddenly decide that enough is enough, and take langaran world by force, or atleast what they need to to dial the stargate.

[The_Asgard_live]

"
Minus the obvious joke ending there, this to me is an example of bad writing. Putting a line in to benefit some viewers does not progress a story, which is what good writing does. It entertains or it progress, for the masses, not a few.

There are no masses, that is why the show is being canceled. Perhaps its because there was not enough writing like that. Who can say. Again, for whatever reason, you seem to be ignoring the point. Putting McKay/Woosley and line about Sheppard all on the Langaran homeworld was fan service and not necessary. They decided to go there. Then not mentioning Atlantis or Jonas was odd, to me. Maybe not to you.

As for millions or billions VS 80. What number makes it acceptable?

See my reply to Pecisk.

[D Toccs]

So, you are telling me if you were in charge, you'd risk the lives of an entire planet to save 80 people and a rust bucket? You'd risk screwing over allies?

Agreed 100%. The risks they took far outweighed any potential gains. Especially when all the Langarans wanted was a bit of time for their scientists to go over the data themselves. All Earth had to say was "Ok fine, we'll defend the planet from the Lucian Alliance while McKay goes over the data with your scientists.

There is also that I don't buy the LA as some sort of major threat. Did not the Goa'uld prevent humans from advancing technologically. Wasn't earth mostly a unique fluke? How are they repairing their formly Goa'uld ships. How do they make more after we destroy them. They had to steal Rush to dial Destiny last time.

Earth wasn't really a unique fluke, there were many human civilizations that advanced technologically some like the Tollan or the Orbanians even more so than Earth.

As for the LA maintaining their ships. In the first episode to feature the LA The Ties That Bind, there were several ships of Hebridian design amongst the LA fleet. So it is reasonable to conclude that some of the Hebridian criminal element (such as those that Warrick used to transport) are involved in the Lucian Alliance and they would certainly be technologically savvy enough to maintain the ships.

[traylormatt]

I read that and replied to that post. But I asked you what would be acceptable? Sure 80 may not be enough, what would be. When it comes to LA taking over the planet ad unsafely dialing tha gate, killing thousands then possibly destroying the planet, would Langara THEN "risk" letting earth safely dial the gate. Would the risk then be worth it? or would they say "nahhhh, well just let these guys have their go first. if we dont blow up, then you can come and save us and maybe then we will let you have a go"

And regarding the masses first, clearly I meant the masses of the people that watch. The masses within the viewership, not the masses of general population or else then no television show bar things like the superbowel really has masses. 5 million out of several billion is hardly masses.

and I did not ignore. Clearly you seem to be ignoring my point. They went there to make the viewers happy. they can't then keep delving deeper and deeper to just make YOU happy, or the others like you that want x y or z answer. Because then what about the other fans that want to know a, b or c answered. They added those to make you happy and make fans happy but then people get greedy and say they want more. Sure to you it is totally logical to include other stuff that you want to know, but that doesnt mean everyone else wants it.

what baffles me is people who say they know good writing - why don't you write for a sci-fi show then? then it could be as you like. If you know good writing so well, the surely you could get a pilot picked up and make it a smash hit. Obviously you can't, and that is nothing against you, it is because it is extremely difficult to write for television or films and make them actual hits that appeal to more than a select few people. You could undoubtably write something that appeals to you and answers all of your questions. But that does not make it good writing by any standard. This really is not a personal attack but simply that a lot of people seem to think they know what is "best" and how to write well.

[knowles2]

I think people tend to forget that the only reason the Gould dominated the Galaxy was because the numerous other species out there simply did not fight back against the Gould on any great scale. An they only ever fought the Go'uld to defend there own little corner of the galaxy, the Tolan, The space race people. An I am sure there are others out there as well. Most of these races has a weapon or two which were far superior to the Go-uld weapons but no more. It was the selfishness of these people that let the Go'uld rule the galaxy.

[The_Asgard_live]

As far as earth is concerned there is 0% risk. As I have already said, this is not just the arrogant wisdom of one man, but the collective minds of earth's best and brightest. 0% risk to pen up a supply line to a great discovery and some of your people. Yeah I would say that is worth 0% risk.

Its not zero risk. Its a guess.

the Goa'uld may have been in charge but they weren;t building the ships them selves, they had people do it, the same people that will now be in te LA, so I am guessing that they are able to build the ships as well as the Goa'uld could.

I'm guessing otherwise. In one of the early episodes Teal'c said he (and by implication the Jaffa) had no knowledge of how Gao'uld tech works, and he was first prime. I doubt slaves would know more.

They are also fine with slave labour and killing people just to get one person (Ginn). And though earth was a slight fluke, clearly not completely.

As I said, mostly unique.

Does the excistence of the planet builders not show you that there may be tech out there so valuable it would be worth trying to attack Destiny again? I mean, any race that gets their hands on tech left behind by them would be formidable at the absolute least, really they could dominate.

That is true of any galaxy in any direction. And the LA's interest in Destiny predates their knowledge of the planet builders (so far as we know) if they even have knowledge of them.

LA wont be more of a threat, but they will be if they suddenly decide that enough is enough, and take langaran world by force, or atleast what they need to to dial the stargate.

They could decide to do that now or in a few months. Its the same threat.

[knowles2]

Maybe no one could undo it. Just food of thought. Scary one, though.

Although it been a plot point throughout the second season that Eli have been neglecting his duties and his studies of the Destiny, it not that far fetch that Rush knowledge and abilities to control destiny has grown beyond Eli's capabilities.