What is Rush up to?

[Blackhole]

It is the only possible answer. The data has to be there, because the ship has sensors. The database is available on the spot. The fact that the planet is locked out is apparent by the gate being inaccessible. Therefore, they must have missed it, because there is no reason they should not have had it.

It is not reasonable that all four at the same time would have missed the information.

Since there's mention of them nearing starvation in "Aftermath" yet no issue is made of it after, one can only assume it is no longer an issue. They had three hours to work. That's long enough to get supplies for a short while.

It could mean that their supply situation was a desperate as you are making it out to be. They did unload most of LA on the planet.

He didn't lie about having the command code. He simply hasn't told anyone the truth about it. He didn't even lie about why Destiny stopped, really. He says, "Well, it's not magic! As I've been doing all along, I've been telling Destiny any way I can how short of resources we are." It's just that, in this case, he can tell Destiny a lot more directly. He told the shuttle crew about the danger, and it's not a lie to not tell Young. His accusation of Chloe is the only other lie, and he didn't even make that one up, just went along with it. He maneuvered Young into making that determination.

Nit-picky and not worth replying too.

Mount a rescue with what? The shuttles they don't have, the ship that needed to jump to restore power, the space suits they have only two of to a ship that could only be unlocked from the inside? Explain this rescue.

I don't need to explain a rescue. The simple fact remains is if the ship had been under Young's control far more options would have been available.

No, Young assumed that, and Rush offered an explanation. He went along with the false accusation knowing better. Not much of a distinction, but there it is.

What we do know is Rush lied and falsely accused her and Young locked her up for it.

Or everyone would have starved due to lack of food. Plus, does the seeder look like it has a shuttle dock to you?

The food issue wasn't mentioned in the following episode.

The seeder ship was huge. How do you know what docking ports were present?

They had to.

No they didn't.

Food was short, not water.

As I detailed there wasn't sufficient time to accomplish any meaningful foraging. Anyone who has hiked around a forest knows that foraging for food is very difficult and requires a great deal of time.

[Blackhole]

But why would he hide info on the planet? What would his reasoning be?

I am not saying Rush did alter the sensor data I only offered it as a possibility. His reason to do so could have been to insure Young agreed to the mission.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

So, as I'm reading the "pro-Rush" side of this argument:

1.) Rush knows what is best, always.

2.) Rush is not culpable for anything negative which occurs due to his actions. Any negative results are due to the actions or inaction of any of the "unqualified" people on board. Further, Rush is allowed to not accept any blame or to even admit to himself that there might be fault on his part.

3.) Rush has extensive knowledge of how Destiny works, ergo, he should be allowed to do what he wants, with minimal interruption and everything will be alright.

4.) Rush is the only person on Destiny (and possibly in the entire human race) who is qualified to know of the existence of the bridge let alone be allowed to set foot on it.


I find it to be an extreme irony that since they've arrived on Destiny, almost everything being spoken of which is a negative to Rush is a direct result of his own actions:

a.) The fact that there are all of these unqualified people on board is because of an action by Rush. I do not place blame or suggest wrong-doing on his part, but rather that he made a conscious decision to dial the Destiny gate rather than any other gate within the Milky Way galaxy.

b.) That these people are unable to understand systems as well as Rush is because Rush refuses to supply them with any information. Rather than help to bring others up to (almost) his speed, Rush is permitted to belittle them, keep them un-informed, and generally be unpleasant enough to deter anyone from wanting to bother him with questions.

I suggest that Rush is extremely selfish in his actions. He is unwilling to involve anyone in his pursuit of controlling Destiny. And this could lead to the greatest irony of all, for should Rush become incapacitated at a critical juncture (say due to overwork and lack of sleep), an opportunity for control of Destiny could be lost... but that would be the fault of everyone else, right?

regards,
G.

Mental green, cus I can't hand out any other at the moment
it's cliched but with great power comes great responsibility, and Rush has this power, partly through the abilities of his intellect and partly because he's a sneaky so and so and has found a way to keep anyone else from it. Either way, he has it, and that makes him responsible. Having Rush keep information from others - and the effect this has on the actions of everyone that has to rely on that information - seems to be a theme in this show

[Blackhole]

Mental green, cus I can't hand out any other at the moment
it's cliched but with great power comes great responsibility, and Rush has this power, partly through the abilities of his intellect and partly because he's a sneaky so and so and has found a way to keep anyone else from it. Either way, he has it, and that makes him responsible. Having Rush keep information from others - and the effect this has on the actions of everyone that has to rely on that information - seems to be a theme in this show

I agree you are right.

[Kaiphantom]

So, as I'm reading the "pro-Rush" side of this argument:

1.) Rush knows what is best, always.

2.) Rush is not culpable for anything negative which occurs due to his actions. Any negative results are due to the actions or inaction of any of the "unqualified" people on board. Further, Rush is allowed to not accept any blame or to even admit to himself that there might be fault on his part.

3.) Rush has extensive knowledge of how Destiny works, ergo, he should be allowed to do what he wants, with minimal interruption and everything will be alright.

4.) Rush is the only person on Destiny (and possibly in the entire human race) who is qualified to know of the existence of the bridge let alone be allowed to set foot on it.


I find it to be an extreme irony that since they've arrived on Destiny, almost everything being spoken of which is a negative to Rush is a direct result of his own actions:

a.) The fact that there are all of these unqualified people on board is because of an action by Rush. I do not place blame or suggest wrong-doing on his part, but rather that he made a conscious decision to dial the Destiny gate rather than any other gate within the Milky Way galaxy.

b.) That these people are unable to understand systems as well as Rush is because Rush refuses to supply them with any information. Rather than help to bring others up to (almost) his speed, Rush is permitted to belittle them, keep them un-informed, and generally be unpleasant enough to deter anyone from wanting to bother him with questions.

I suggest that Rush is extremely selfish in his actions. He is unwilling to involve anyone in his pursuit of controlling Destiny. And this could lead to the greatest irony of all, for should Rush become incapacitated at a critical juncture (say due to overwork and lack of sleep), an opportunity for control of Destiny could be lost... but that would be the fault of everyone else, right?

regards,
G.

I'm not necessarily pro-Rush; merely arguing that side in this debate to point out the ridiculousness of the blame argument at all. It may be better to say I'm anti-blame; that is, I don't blame Rush or Young or the other scientists for this. In my educated view, what happened was simply bad luck. Nothing is 100% safe, especially on Destiny, and thus sometimes the dice are gonna end up rolling against you. Someone will get hurt or killed. Hell, the dice rolled against the Destiny crew when they landed on the Time planet, and they all died; could we blame anyone for that? Nope.

So that's the main reason to pull away from that. There really isn't a "pro-Rush" side to this at all. Merely an "Anti-Rush" side who will seek to demonize him in any way, shape or form, which seems highly unreasonable. The other side is "anti-blame."

[Kaiphantom]

It may be polite in a debate to assume the other party is making a good faith effort to answer their points but the fact remains I answer all your points and you don't answer mine.

Okay then, two can play that game. I answer all your points and you don't answer mine. So, if you want me to answer all your points, please answer mine, which you keep avoiding. (and by the way, we can keep up this childish game as long as you like).

I have never suggested that I am not holding Eli, Volker, Brody and Park accountable. I am suggesting that to suggest they all overlooked vital information all at the same time to be unreasonable. They have never done it in the past why should they do it now. It is far more likely that the pertinent information was not available at the time.

"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbably, must be the answer." It is impossible for them to not have access to the data. So the only conclusion left (them overlooking the data), however improbable, must be the answer. It's a common logical deduction.

Anyone who has ever hiked in a forest knows foraging for food is extremely difficult and very time consuming. There aren't abundant fruit tree around to pick from. Besides the shuttle crew had less than six hours to deal with a dying man and uncover a buried vertical gate covered in rocks and dirt. There is absolutely no way any meaningful food would have been found. Water weighs over 8 pounds per gallon. Even with a well constructed backpack how much do you think one person could carry? How many backpacks and containers do you think they had with them?

We're not talking about the 6 hours from the first trip, though. We're talking about the three hours they had later, when all they were shown to deal with was Riley. Regardless of whether they found food or not, it would the epitome of stupid not to have people fan out and look for food during that three hours. They didn't have anything else to do, after all. Can you at least agree that a competent commander would have at least ordered his people to look during the three hours they had?

See above

Nothing you have said above has countered the points that the other scientists should have had clear access to the planetary data.

Threat is never involved in entrapment. If a law enforcement office threatens you to commit a crime that isn't entrapment it is coercion. Entrapment involves inducement or persuasion never coercion. If someone induces or persuades someone to commit a crime they had no intention of doing so from the beginning that is entrapment. A good example would be if a women officer approaches a man on the street and hits on him to spark interest. Once aroused she then tells him that he is going to have to pay for her company. If he does so and she then arrests him that would be entrapment.

Legally or otherwise entrapment wasn't involved in Young and Rush's situation in any fashion whatsoever. Entrapment involves inducement or persuasion to commit a crime. Rush didn’t open the door in any way for Young. Trying to draw an analogy from your make believe trial makes absolutely no sense. As tinerin has so skillfully described, it is Young’s job to make decisions and it is the scientists’ jobs to provide him with accurate and truthful information so he can make the best possible decision. The salient point you have steadfastly refused to acknowledge is Rush had a legal obligation to provide truthful and accurate information to him. He refused and as such committed a crime. As a consequence the shuttle crashed and a life was lost. Legally Rush is now held responsible for that loss of life and property. Trying to muddy the waters with your nonsensical and made up legal gobbledygook won't make Rush any less guilty.

You're focusing too much on Entrapment, when the important point is the FBI guidelines, and the fact that Young had a choice. Yes or no: "Could Young have said no to the shuttle launch?" Of course he could have, which meant Rush was acting much like the FBI; he only provided an opportunity and Young walked through of his own volition. That means that Rush, like the FBI, is innocent in anything that happened after.

Plus, at the time, Rush did provide the relevant information. Remember, he considered it safe at the time. It wasn't until nearly an hour later when Franklin told him his calculations weren't the best. But at the time, Rush felt his calculations were correct enough. Do you really want to charge someone for making a good-faith mistake?

Again, as tinerin has pointed out so skillfully several times:

“Just to be clear about my point, Rush's ACTION was his decision to not notify Young/Volker/Park about his analysis of the sensor data that showed a significant risk to the shuttle. Under the circumstances, this ACTION would be legally considered to be a crime. A death occurred as a result of the commission of this crime. Under US laws, this fits the definition of felony murder (or involuntary homicide due to his mental state). Whether or not this death would have occurred had Rush notified the crew is irrelevant to the laws that I am stating.”

And as I pointed out, Rush didn't feel it was an issue until Franklin told him. Obviously, it's because his lack of sleep and memories of torture (and possible smurf influence) that made him miss it. But the fact remains that he felt it was an acceptable risk at the time when he told Young about the planet. You have to remember something: Rush wants food. If there was a high chance of the shuttle crashing and people dying, he wouldn't have got any food. Thus, logically, it would have been stupid of him to want people to go. It would have deprived Destiny of needed personnel and a shuttle. Thus, we have to logically conclude that Rush felt the planetary factors weren't an issue.

He made a professional decision on what to tell Young, just like the other scientists. The moment you hold that good-faith professional decisions are criminal in nature, is the moment when you cripple everyone's abilities. "Um, I'd love to tell you what things are like, but if something bad happens and/or people die, you'll find me guilty of something, and that's not a chance I want to take, sorry." You'd pretty much be blaming me for you continuing to post, when it was your decision alone as to whether to reply to me or not. Are you going to accept blame for your own decision to post?

What we do know is Rush lied and falsely accused her and Young locked her up for it.

Young wanted to lock her up initially. Rush actually wanted her free to move about. Thus, trying to blame Rush for this is counter-productive to his goals. He actually had to institute a different measure to get her free again.

See above, this point is irrelevant.

Yep. Just like The subject of Rush's blame in regards to Riley is irrelevant. Thank you!

See above, again, the desperateness of their supply situation in not relevant. Young committed a crime withholding information from Young and is legally responsible for the consequences of that action.

So, you believe taking risks is bad, and everyone should have sat back and starved? I think people might be a bit hesitant to end up on a Destiny-like situation with you, because everything is too dangerous...

[morbosfist]

It is not reasonable that all four at the same time would have missed the information.

And so you suggest that Rush not only hid the information in the database, but somehow blocked the sensors from detecting very specific information and sabotaged the shuttle's sensors. It is unreasonable to suggest that the rest of the crew could not have detected it.

It could mean that their supply situation was a desperate as you are making it out to be. They did unload most of LA on the planet.

Which was maybe a dozen or so people. Combine that with some searching and your food problem is solved.

I don't need to explain a rescue. The simple fact remains is if the ship had been under Young's control far more options would have been available.

Yes, you do need to explain a rescue, because it could not have been done. They reconnect the ships, Destiny gets drained.

What we do know is Rush lied and falsely accused her and Young locked her up for it.

Except it was Young who suggested it. All Rush did was go along with his determination.

The food issue wasn't mentioned in the following episode.

Because they solved it.

The seeder ship was huge. How do you know what docking ports were present?

The shuttles use a rear dock. The seeder has no such receptacles on its hull. It's not meant to use shuttles.

No they didn't.

Yes, they did, because it is the only explanation.

As I detailed there wasn't sufficient time to accomplish any meaningful foraging. Anyone who has hiked around a forest knows that foraging for food is very difficult and requires a great deal of time.

Maybe for safe food. Grabbing anything that looks remotely like food and testing it later would be much faster.

[Gollumpus]

I'm not necessarily pro-Rush; merely arguing that side in this debate to point out the ridiculousness of the blame argument at all. It may be better to say I'm anti-blame; that is, I don't blame Rush or Young or the other scientists for this. In my educated view, what happened was simply bad luck. Nothing is 100% safe, especially on Destiny, and thus sometimes the dice are gonna end up rolling against you. Someone will get hurt or killed. Hell, the dice rolled against the Destiny crew when they landed on the Time planet, and they all died; could we blame anyone for that? Nope.

So that's the main reason to pull away from that. There really isn't a "pro-Rush" side to this at all. Merely an "Anti-Rush" side who will seek to demonize him in any way, shape or form, which seems highly unreasonable. The other side is "anti-blame."

I don't see myself as pro anything, except for having a laugh. That's always good. I'm very strict on this point.

Normally, I don't play the blame game...

--------------------------------------------------------------------
It's hard to not place the "blame" on a particular character. Rush will ALWAYS be responsible, on some level, for everything, good or bad, which happens during this series. There is no getting around that point. It is only a question of degree of responsibility.

It was not Rush's fault that the LA attacked Destiny base. We could blame Telford I suppose, but where's the fun in that? As we all know, it was Rush's good insight which canceled the dialing to Earth (as the shock wave of the planet blowing up could have done serious damage to the Earth). Rather than dial to an alternative location within the Milky Way (from which they could then get back to Earth), Rush CHOSE to dial the Destiny gate. This was also "good" insight on his part, because otherwise we would have had a lack of a series, however, by taking this initiative of wanting to further the goals of the mission (ie. to satisfy his own desire to seek knowledge) he placed the various people who went with him into an unknown situation (good or bad was unknown at the time).

Sen. Armstrong died from lack of medical attention. Why? Because the LA attacked the base, the doctor(s) were killed and TJ didn't have the medical knowledge and materials with which to save him. Why didn't he have someone and someplace available to him which could have saved his life? Because he was several galaxies away from such help.

Sgt. Spencer might still be alive. He would have had access to the meds he was taking (sleeping prescription?). Yes, he might still have blown out his own brains, however, the fact remains he did it several galaxies away from any hope of proper medical/psychological assistance.

Riley may have died under similar circumstances back in the Milky Way. He may even have died at the exact same time there as he did in the last episode. The fact remains that he died where he did, several galaxies away from family and any hope of medical attention which would have at the very least, saved his life if not his limbs.

Various other folks have died, been killed or became MIA while they were on Destiny. They may have met a similar fate anyways, however, they would have (likely) died within the Milky Way galaxy. In your example of the "Time" planet, I know one sure way that they would not have been been in any danger what-so-ever from the Time planet, and I think you do as well.

Plus, BAG was lost to us because he felt the need to aid the people on that "Life" planet. Plus he just had to get away from all that bickering on Destiny.

We could blame Telford for all of this. (What the heck, let's have a bit of fun.) He was working with the LA which attacked Icarus which resulted in Rush choosing to dial up the Destiny gate which resulted in 80+ people being stranded in a distant galaxy rather than finding asylum somewhere in the Milky Way.

I suppose we could blame Young for all of this, because he was not in the gate room to oversee events at the critical juncture. He ordered a dial out to Earth, which Rush over-rode. Rush then dialed Destiny. As a result, Young is becoming more and more "unhinged" as he tries to deal with the situation in which he finds himself. He is trying to do his duty (as he sees fit) and fulfill his responsibilities as leader of the people from Icarus base, stranded several galaxies away from the Milky Way.

We could blame Riley, as he was the guy doing the dial out which Rush over-rode. Riley could have stopped Rush from what he was doing, but he trusted that Rush knew what was the right thing to do, or he was just intimidated by Rush. Either way, it ended with his death in a distant galaxy.

We could blame Kiva for all of this. It was her decision to attack Icarus at all (let alone at that specific juncture) which led to all of those folks being stranded several galaxies away.

Maybe we could blame Col. Carter or Gen O'Neill. If they had put up a better defense of Icarus then none of this would have happened.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

...however, I find it difficult to refrain from doing so in this case.


regards,
G.

[Kaiphantom]

I don't see myself as pro anything, except for having a laugh. That's always good. I'm very strict on this point.

Normally, I don't play the blame game...

...however, I find it difficult to refrain from doing so in this case.

You bring up good points. Rush definitely bears some blame for dialing the 9th chevron instead of an alternate site, and thus the events that transpired from there. But we all do stupid things in the heat of the moment; do you want to be blamed for something for the rest of your life, for something stupid you did?

However, as you noted, if he hadn't... then we wouldn't have had a series. I blame Rush for trying to frame Young; I felt that was a douche move. So I'm not Pro-Rush, as I feel there are things to blame him for. Just that Riley's death isn't one he's directly responsible for.

[Gollumpus]

You bring up good points. Rush definitely bears some blame for dialing the 9th chevron instead of an alternate site, and thus the events that transpired from there.

Yup. Just like he deserves some commendation because if he had not stranded everyone on Destiny then there would have been nobody there to thwart the LA getting their hands on the prize, whatever that prize may be. An unintentional and unknown future benefit of his actions.

But we all do stupid things in the heat of the moment; do you want to be blamed for something for the rest of your life, for something stupid you did?

Does seeing, "Battlefield Earth" in a theatre count as something stupid? I sure felt kinda' dumb after seeing that. My only defense is that someone else paid my way in, and she bought the popcorn...

In Rush's case, blame is a three-sided blade. Rush may (perhaps one day) come to accept the blame for all of the negatives for which he has some responsibility. And he may honestly forgive himself after a period of contrition, however, what about the other 80+ people who went to Destiny with him? Won't they on some level always blame him for his actions? And what about the families of those who won't be going home? Would Riley's nephew ever forgive Rush if he knew the truth? Nick is in for many "long dark nights where it is always three o'clock in the morning". It will be lots of fun to watch if it is well written.

As for Riley, anyone can argue that Rush was or was not "directly" responsible for Riley's death. I do tend to place most of the blame on Rush. Some of what happened could not have been foreseen. Some of what happened was just bad luck. There was even some "good" bad luck in there. There are two things about Riley's death which make me mad at Rush (in a good way) and will likely cause him significant status within the group if/when it all comes clear to the rest of crew:

1.) There will be the perception amongst the group that Rush is untrustworthy and has an unwillingness to share information (regardless of his reasoning, or lack thereof). He once again placed people in jeopardy, cost the life of one of them, and also deprived them of a valuable material asset. This will not win him many supporters. I suspect even Wray will be somewhat aghast at his recent behavior. Did they get some food out of the deal? Maybe, however such a thing was never established, only assumed. They may also have been able to pick up ample supplies at a different planet just a little further along, which is where they off-loaded the extra LA. And maybe they could have used the shuttle during the events of "Awakening".

2.) Rush's unwillingness (because he's just plain stubborn) or his inability (due to being mentally unbalanced) to accept any responsibility (aka: blame) for anything negative that has happened. Folks will tend to view him as being somewhat mentally unbalanced should he start to spout out his "reasons" for not telling anyone about why he kept quiet about the bridge.

At some point, I would not be surprised if Rush wound up in solitary confinement, placed there by Young, and with the reluctant blessing of Wray. At the very least, it would be for his own protection. It would give him time to work on his equations. Otherwise, it would have to become another one of those secrets which nobody talks about, for the good of the crew.

regards,
G.

[Kaiphantom]

Yup. Just like he deserves some commendation because if he had not stranded everyone on Destiny then there would have been nobody there to thwart the LA getting their hands on the prize, whatever that prize may be. An unintentional and unknown future benefit of his actions.



Does seeing, "Battlefield Earth" in a theatre count as something stupid? I sure felt kinda' dumb after seeing that. My only defense is that someone else paid my way in, and she bought the popcorn...

In Rush's case, blame is a three-sided blade. Rush may (perhaps one day) come to accept the blame for all of the negatives for which he has some responsibility. And he may honestly forgive himself after a period of contrition, however, what about the other 80+ people who went to Destiny with him? Won't they on some level always blame him for his actions? And what about the families of those who won't be going home? Would Riley's nephew ever forgive Rush if he knew the truth? Nick is in for many "long dark nights where it is always three o'clock in the morning". It will be lots of fun to watch if it is well written.

As for Riley, anyone can argue that Rush was or was not "directly" responsible for Riley's death. I do tend to place most of the blame on Rush. Some of what happened could not have been foreseen. Some of what happened was just bad luck. There was even some "good" bad luck in there. There are two things about Riley's death which make me mad at Rush (in a good way) and will likely cause him significant status within the group if/when it all comes clear to the rest of crew:

1.) There will be the perception amongst the group that Rush is untrustworthy and has an unwillingness to share information (regardless of his reasoning, or lack thereof). He once again placed people in jeopardy, cost the life of one of them, and also deprived them of a valuable material asset. This will not win him many supporters. I suspect even Wray will be somewhat aghast at his recent behavior. Did they get some food out of the deal? Maybe, however such a thing was never established, only assumed. They may also have been able to pick up ample supplies at a different planet just a little further along, which is where they off-loaded the extra LA. And maybe they could have used the shuttle during the events of "Awakening".

2.) Rush's unwillingness (because he's just plain stubborn) or his inability (due to being mentally unbalanced) to accept any responsibility (aka: blame) for anything negative that has happened. Folks will tend to view him as being somewhat mentally unbalanced should he start to spout out his "reasons" for not telling anyone about why he kept quiet about the bridge.

At some point, I would not be surprised if Rush wound up in solitary confinement, placed there by Young, and with the reluctant blessing of Wray. At the very least, it would be for his own protection. It would give him time to work on his equations. Otherwise, it would have to become another one of those secrets which nobody talks about, for the good of the crew.

Is it vengeance you seek? An "eye for an eye" type situation? You hit at the base of humanity, of course; the desire to override the greater good for short-term pleasure, by inflicting pain on another for perceived faults. Perhaps you don't read spoilers, or what future episodes contain, but I think you may be surprised at how the crew responds. If you haven't read spoilers, I'd highly suggest you do some serious thinking between now and episode 7.

As for Rush, you basically have two ways of dealing with him, and it depends on how you view him with regards to the ship and the rest of the crew.

#1. No one else is near Rush in terms of intellect, ie, everyone else is an idiot. In which case, locking him up is the worst thing you want to do, because no one else will figure things out. For good or ill, he's the Carter/McKay of SGU, and regardless of how annoying you may find him (and plenty of people found McKay annoying), you need him. That requires one to get over any negative feelings they have, and learn to work with him. Also, if he truly is the brightest and everyone else is dumb enough to mess things up (ie, turning everything on in Darkness to worsen the power situation only Rush was smart enough to see coming), then you kinda have to agree that him keeping the bridge to himself is the wisest course of action. If only Rush could have seen it(and that is critical for assigning him all the blame), then only Rush is smart enough to be on the bridge in the first place.

#2. If, however, you feel the other scientists working together are just as good, then you have to admit that they should have noted the planetary conditions and warned Young about them. It allows you to blame Rush for keeping the bridge secret, but on the other hand, the other scientists are in the same blame boat as Rush. They all failed equally to provide Young with proper threat assessment (and of course, blame on Young for not ordering a proper threat assessment). You'd also have to realize, then, that he isn't all-knowing. That it means the other scientists should have easily caught something that Rush missed due to his considerable lack of sleep.

But the true mark of a man, is whether they can let their anger and hate for another go, and work together for The Greater Good. I can't say more without spoiling, but there are quite a few here who will be severely disappointed and perhaps angry about future episodes.

For myself, I understand Rush completely; he's not the enigma that the writer's want us to believe. I understand how his wife, his work, and his experiences affect his motivations. He's coldly logical, having buried his emotions from when his wife died. His work was all he had left. Lately, because of the episode Human, he's been allowing his emotions back out and that's affecting him. Combined with torture (and I'd like to see anyone else handle the situation better), the lack of sleep because of it, and Young's inept handling of the LA crisis, he truly feels he's the only one who really believes in the mission and is the only one capable of following it through.

There's a leak of oxygen in the shuttle? Hand me the list, and let's find the most useless person to sacrifice themselves to plug it up, for the greater good. Coldly logical.

Faith people want to stay behind? Order them back, because we need all of us to survive, for the greater good. Coldly logical.

I believe Telford to be a spy? I am the only one with the necessary memories, so I'll have to put myself at risk, for the greater good. Coldly logical.

We're short on food and there's only one planet coming up with the possibility of it, although it's risky? We need to take the chance, for the greater good. Coldly logical.

I understand how it makes him seem inhuman at times, but then again, so was Spock to Dr. McCoy. So when I hear people decry Rush, in my mind I'm hearing McCoy go "You green-blooded, inhuman...." And thus, Rush shares the same flaw; he needs to better consider the feelings of the crew. What he's doing is probably the right thing in the grand scheme of things, but people have feelings you need to consider, and you do need to make efforts to get along with them and be friendly. That is his greatest flaw he needs to get over.

But he's honestly working for the good of the mission, and I think you'll find everyone else will tend to agree when all this comes out, and we find out Destiny's true mission. That everyone realizes these petty squabbles about blame and who's in command and such, will need to be put behind them, and we'll need to work together.

Now only if the fandom would be as good as the crew on the ship in this regard...

Oh, wanted to add this youtube link. As you watch this video, you will snicker to yourself at how stupid this woman is, and thus you'll be falling into the same trap Rush is in. The more your intellect grows, the more you see less-educated people around you as idiots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c6HsiixFS8

[SBN]

I think Rush is trying to figure out how to Lose friends and Alienate people

ROFL, this is the thread that just keeps on giving. I think this is the answer, Rush is a big fan of Toby Young.

[Gollumpus]

Well, let me say this about that...

Is it vengeance you seek? An "eye for an eye" type situation? You hit at the base of humanity, of course; the desire to override the greater good for short-term pleasure, by inflicting pain on another for perceived faults. Perhaps you don't read spoilers, or what future episodes contain, but I think you may be surprised at how the crew responds. If you haven't read spoilers, I'd highly suggest you do some serious thinking between now and episode 7.

Vengeance? Not quite sure where that came from. I'm not on Destiny. I'm giving what I believe will be the reactions of the other people on Destiny to Rush's actions. If you've been reading spoilers then that's good for you. I've always liked to defer opening my X-Mas presents on the morning rather than the evening. Personal preference I suppose.

As we all know, once you get into an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth you get a lot of gummy, blind people bumping into things. Would the people on Destiny want to evaluate their "relationship" with Rush when more information comes out? I would think the answer is, yes. Would they want to secure him in some fashion while they do this? It wouldn't surprise me if they did. If they believed him to be a danger to them then they may well restrict him to his quarters. On the other hand, if they were to fall all over themselves with praise at how Rush has acted, depending on the circumstances, then I'd be greatly surprised.

With regard to your points on Rush:

1.) Let's accept your suggestion that Rush is the brightest bulb in the night sky and anyone else is about half as bright as a dead firefly (the insect, not the show, though that's dead too)... okay, no I can't accept it. Rush is the smartest guy on Destiny, however, the rest of the folks are pretty smart as well. And while Rush can get to the end of the problem well before they, they themselves will get there as well. An advantage they have over him is that they will work TOGETHER. Remember that word, TOGETHER. We'll use it later.

Do you need your McKays and Carters? No, but it sure does help to have them around. They can provide huge leaps in understanding which might not be apparent to another. If nothing else them working on their own is great. When they worked together, with the other people around them, they are magnificent.

That requires one to get over any negative feelings they have, and learn to work with him.

Everybody on Destiny, and before that on Icarus, would work with Rush. They may not like him, but they would do it. The thing of it is, Rush will NOT work with them, unless he has a reason of his own or he is forced. He refuses to pass along basic findings. He speaks to them in insulting tones which makes it even more difficult for them to learn to work with him. This places everyone in jeopardy.

So, Rush doesn't co-operate with anyone around him, keeps information from them, and keeps building up a personal wall between himself and they. And they are to be criticized because they cannot learn to work with him? That kinda' works against your theme, no?

Also, if he truly is the brightest and everyone else is dumb enough to mess things up (ie, turning everything on in Darkness to worsen the power situation only Rush was smart enough to see coming), then you kinda have to agree that him keeping the bridge to himself is the wisest course of action. If only Rush could have seen it(and that is critical for assigning him all the blame), then only Rush is smart enough to be on the bridge in the first place.

So Rush sees a problem prior to anyone else, of which he is only able to grasp a portion, and therefore he is supposed to be the only guy to be able to access the bridge? I think it means he is one of the people on Destiny who should be allowed on the bridge. And yes, people should get clarification on each system from Rush. I suspect that they're smart enough to do that, when they're not flinging their own excrement at one another.

2.)

If, however, you feel the other scientists working together are just as good, then you have to admit that they should have noted the planetary conditions and warned Young about them.

Not necessarily as good on a short track, however on a long haul I suspect Rush would fail.

We do not know the differences of the sophistication of the technology available to them vs. what Rush has available on the bridge. I'm assuming it is pretty significant otherwise why was Rush so eager to find, gain access to and finally gain control of the bridge? That's one possible reason why they may not have given a warning to Young.

Another is that they hadn't quite got there, yet, but were about to when Rush sent his own radio message to Scott. Yet another is that they didn't do it at all because they had trust in Ancient technology (even the million year old variety), and that Rush would give the same kind of information which they themselves would give: as complete and well informed as possible, as reliable as possible, as honest as possible. Rush seems to have a problem giving up any kind of information, and what he does surrender is done so in a very grudging manner and in as small an amount as possible.

They all failed equally to provide Young with proper threat assessment (and of course, blame on Young for not ordering a proper threat assessment). You'd also have to realize, then, that he isn't all-knowing. That it means the other scientists should have easily caught something that Rush missed due to his considerable lack of sleep.

Sorry to change gears here, frankly I put that down to script edits and time considerations in shooting schedules. And it had to be Rush who supplies the warning, for purposes of story continuity.

But the true mark of a man, is whether they can let their anger and hate for another go, and work together for The Greater Good.

And yet, from what we have seen to date, it is Rush who cannot let go of his anger, hate resentment, suspicion and paranoia of others. The great irony is that it is Rush who will not work with others unless he has no other choice or he has some personal agenda for which it would be advantageous. Why is the onus always on everyone else to work with Rush, to forgive him for his failings, to take his relentless abuse and do so with something akin to adoration for his having noticed their worm-like existence?

And if you are suggesting that it is Rush who is going to be the magnanimous one in this equation, well then that is the ultimate irony.

(End pt.1)

[Gollumpus]

Pt.2

For myself, I understand Rush completely; he's not the enigma that the writer's want us to believe. I understand how his wife, his work, and his experiences affect his motivations. He's coldly logical, having buried his emotions from when his wife died. His work was all he had left. Lately, because of the episode Human, he's been allowing his emotions back out and that's affecting him. Combined with torture (and I'd like to see anyone else handle the situation better), the lack of sleep because of it, and Young's inept handling of the LA crisis, he truly feels he's the only one who really believes in the mission and is the only one capable of following it through.

There's a lot of other people out there who "understand Rush completely". You do not happen to agree with all of them with regard to their perspectives on undertanding Rush.

You say that Rush works for the "greater good". I believe Rush believes he is working for the greater good. Shall we try to break down just who or what the greater good actually are and what do they represent?

Greater Good #1: What is best for Humanity and the pursuit of Knowledge for the understanding of the universe for the betterment of all Humanity (which includes Rush).

Greater Good #2: What is best for the crew of Destiny (which also includes Rush).

Greater Good #3: What is best for Nicholas Rush and his desire to know stuff at the cost of anything to anyone else.

There's a leak of oxygen in the shuttle? Hand me the list, and let's find the most useless person to sacrifice themselves to plug it up, for the greater good. Coldly logical.

Faith people want to stay behind? Order them back, because we need all of us to survive, for the greater good. Coldly logical.

I believe Telford to be a spy? I am the only one with the necessary memories, so I'll have to put myself at risk, for the greater good. Coldly logical.

We're short on food and there's only one planet coming up with the possibility of it, although it's risky? We need to take the chance, for the greater good. Coldly logical.

In your first example, it's perhaps telling that you suggest a simple solution problem with a terminal result for the person completing the mission. Fast and easy solution, send a red-shirt to fix it and everything is okay. What if Rush was the only person who could complete the mission? How quick would he be to go and die for everyone else? Or would he spend as much time as possible looking an alternative, more complex solution before he went off and died for the greater good?

The Faith people want to stay behind, but Rush wants to keep them, because they're needed for the greater good. Funny you mention this, as they are just additional mouths to feed and they're barely above a monkey in their smarts. You made such an effort to deride these people (in the sense of their being in that "other" scientist group. I believe your term was "idiots") and their possible contributions to the greater good, yet Rush saw a need for them which you apparently have missed. So much for understanding him *completely*. Sorry, that was perhaps a very Rush-like comment on my part... hey, maybe I'm understanding Rush better now!!

The whole Telford/LA thing was a bit of a shocker to me. I have to admit that it was a logical move and made perfect sense once I figured out the three Greater Goods (GG). Rush was in danger of dying during this mission, however, it was a GG#2 type of situation. People on Destiny (including Rush) were potentially in peril. What he wanted to avert was a threat to GG#2 situation, which by default includes GG#3. And is this situation anything like the problem you suggested earlier? The answer to that question is no, not really. The first is out-lined by you as being terminal, no chance of getting out death. In the second case, there is a chance of death (as in the general sense of being in peril) which becomes more possible as Rush continues his time with the LA. And if you recall, Rush does express concerns about the LA "knowing more about this ship than we do". Obviously, Rush was showing his concerns regarding him being able to pursue his own research should the LA make it to Destiny (a GG#3 situation).

The Aftermath situation is very cold logic on Rush's part. We need food now so others must go and find it. "Others". Not Rush, others. And once again, for the GG#2 Rush was willing to be cavalier with other people's lives. Would it have killed him to have told Scott to wait a moment while he ran some additional scans or gave him a more precise description of what to expect? Not doing so contributed to the death of Riley. And how do we know they found any food, let alone food in sufficient quantities to feed around 100 people (including the LA types). The time frame (6 hours) for crashing on the planet, digging up the gate and then supposedly finding a bunch of food in what looks like a huge gravel pit seems a bit unrealistic.

I understand how it makes him seem inhuman at times, but then again, so was Spock to Dr. McCoy. So when I hear people decry Rush, in my mind I'm hearing McCoy go "You green-blooded, inhuman...." And thus, Rush shares the same flaw; he needs to better consider the feelings of the crew. What he's doing is probably the right thing in the grand scheme of things, but people have feelings you need to consider, and you do need to make efforts to get along with them and be friendly. That is his greatest flaw he needs to get over.

Pretty much in agreement here. The thing of it is, Rush has had many opportunities to be a kinder and gentler Rush, and he keeps passing them by. People have made overtures to Rush, including Young. We all see (and understand) Rush's failings and why he is the way he is. Some of us like the character as a flawed hero. Others like the character as merely a flawed human being.

But he's honestly working for the good of the mission, and I think you'll find everyone else will tend to agree when all this comes out, and we find out Destiny's true mission. That everyone realizes these petty squabbles about blame and who's in command and such, will need to be put behind them, and we'll need to work together.

I agree that Rush is working for the Greater Good. I believe it is open to interpretation as to which one it is for which he is working. Will folks on Destiny have to band together? Absolutely (GG#2). Will Rush be a critical part of that effort? Darn right he will (GG#3). Will they have to put petty squabbles and such behind them? Yes, for a time (GG#3). And once it's all over folks may well kiss Rush on one cheek and slap him on the other.

Now only if the fandom would be as good as the crew on the ship in this regard...

I quite like everyone with whom I've come in contact on these forums. Even the three or four I've had to send to repair that faulty airlock on Deck 12...


regards,
G.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Everybody on Destiny, and before that on Icarus, would work with Rush. They may not like him, but they would do it. The thing of it is, Rush will NOT work with them, unless he has a reason of his own or he is forced. He refuses to pass along basic findings. He speaks to them in insulting tones which makes it even more difficult for them to learn to work with him. This places everyone in jeopardy.
....
And yet, from what we have seen to date, it is Rush who cannot let go of his anger, hate resentment, suspicion and paranoia of others. The great irony is that it is Rush who will not work with others unless he has no other choice or he has some personal agenda for which it would be advantageous. Why is the onus always on everyone else to work with Rush, to forgive him for his failings, to take his relentless abuse and do so with something akin to adoration for his having noticed their worm-like existence? ....

There's a lot of other people out there who "understand Rush completely". You do not happen to agree with all of them with regard to their perspectives on undertanding Rush.

You say that Rush works for the "greater good". I believe Rush believes he is working for the greater good.
...

snippety snipped for brevity

the 'greater good' is a lovely theory but when it gets down to who is deciding what's good for you, then it gets dicey

I'm quite sure Rush truly believes that he's doing what's best for the greater good, or at least that he's convinced himself of that but given how Rush has treated people, and what he has shown to think of them, would I trust that what he thought was for the best was really the best? Not on your life. When it comes to the 'greater good', I want a say in my own fate. It's interesting that the Faith planet came up in this conversation as you had the Faith people willing to put their lives into the hands of a power they didn't know anything about, without a say in what would become of them, while at the same time Rush is in essence having the Destiny crew put their lives into his hands without a say in their fate either.

I completely agree that quite a lot of people here understand Rush quite well. Understanding Rush does not equal signing your life over to him.

Then again, my personal motto for years has been 'question everything', so maybe that's just me