ALS cure..

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Wasn't this thread about ALS?

I think if they cured it in the past they wouldn't know how to do so again strait away. It would like knowing the cure to the plague. The Doctors would have to do a little research before finding the cure.

[garhkal]

I wonder if the evacuees who left before the Novus gate was lost took a copy of the archive with them. Unlikely, but worth TJ asking when they get to the resettlement planet.

Doubtful.. or at least a copy of the full archive.

Point is that letting them out is Dangerous and we can only hope that they are in a sleepstate while in Quarantine, because I would be pissed when coming out and so might they. If Eli can put them in, then he can get them out again.

That's assuming there is a reverse capacity to it. Don't most antivirus softwares/malwares/spyware programs have a Quarantine function, that won't let you re-bring something out once placed in it?

[Puddle-Jumper]

Rush would.

I dunno would he... he may not be the happiest chap on the ship but if he's one thing above everything else its pragmatic, and a doctor is a very very necessary thing to have on Destiny, as we've seen many many times.

[morbosfist]

It's not pragmatic to waste all their resources taking shots in the dark. As important as TJ's welfare is, they've got years to deal with it.

[Puddle-Jumper]

Finding the ship would be a problem. It's several decades into space and they have no idea where to look. You can't just up and decide you want something found. It's lost in the void, and they have absolutely no chance of coming across it.

Lost in the void? What are you? cheif dramatist? Its travelling to another solar system, so they would be taking the shortest route i.e. a straight line. They left what a few decades ago? on a journey that'll take hundreds of years so realistically they wouldn't be very far away at all. We saw that Destiny has sensors capable of detecting energy signatures upto a days FTL journey away.

Plus since they accessed the information on the ships, they would know their speed, maybe even their exact course, though if they didn't know the course, theres no reason they couldn't work out approximately where they would be on their journey and spend a few weeks looking.

It's not pragmatic to waste all their resources taking shots in the dark. As important as TJ's welfare is, they've got years to deal with it.

What resources would they waste? The people of the first colony were so happy to see them they gave up plenty of resources even when they were running out. You could assume the people of the next colony will also be helpful. If not, the planet is surely habitable they could gather their own food. The air scrubbers aren't a problem anymore either. The planets that they will be travelling back and forth between both orbit between stars, so power isn't an issue. Okay so power/food/air are not problems what else is there from stopping them? Completing the mission? thats waited millions of years, it'll wait another month or 2.

And even if Rush did object, which I don't think he would, I think it would be safe to say everyone else on board destiny would be doing everything that they can to help TJ in anyway possible... TJ may have years, but better to have your only doctor living a long healthy life, then your only doctor being dead within 10 years.

[morbosfist]

Lost in the void? What are you? cheif dramatist? Its travelling to another solar system, so they would be taking the shortest route i.e. a straight line. They left what a few decades ago? on a journey that'll take hundreds of years so realistically they wouldn't be very far away at all. We saw that Destiny has sensors capable of detecting energy signatures upto a days FTL journey away.

Plus since they accessed the information on the ships, they would know their speed, maybe even their exact course, though if they didn't know the course, theres no reason they couldn't work out approximately where they would be on their journey and spend a few weeks looking.


What resources would they waste? The people of the first colony were so happy to see them they gave up plenty of resources even when they were running out. You could assume the people of the next colony will also be helpful. If not, the planet is surely habitable they could gather their own food. The air scrubbers aren't a problem anymore either. The planets that they will be travelling back and forth between both orbit between stars, so power isn't an issue. Okay so power/food/air are not problems what else is there from stopping them? Completing the mission? thats waited millions of years, it'll wait another month or 2.

And even if Rush did object, which I don't think he would, I think it would be safe to say everyone else on board destiny would be doing everything that they can to help TJ in anyway possible... TJ may have years, but better to have your only doctor living a long healthy life, then your only doctor being dead within 10 years.

Let's count the ways it's a bad idea.

Each jump takes four hours, not counting the three they have to wait after. Since Destiny has proven it can't even detect an entire ship less than an hour away by FTL, one FTL-capable itself no less, that's already skipping huge areas of space.

Total time for each jump is seven hours. That's nearly a day to search three spots. Since they cannot search a large area, they're going to have to double-back if they miss, wasting at least 14 hours per spot. That adds up.

Then move on to resources. They have a crew numbering nearly two-hundred to feed. Without the gate, they cannot be assumed to have collected a massive amount of supplies, certainly not enough to sustain a population of that size for more than a month.

Next is the ship itself. Destiny isn't exactly running on all cylinders. It needs to recharge, and bouncing into FTL over and over is going to waste power. The ship has to leave the area, run through a star (which will take two days at the least for a round trip), then come back. More time wasted.

So, to recap, you have a medical officer with a condition she will explicitly not be impaired by for years to come. You have a ship that has limited resources for both its crew and its own operation. You have a vast area of space which will take a long time to search even under the best of circumstances. Eli mentioned nothing about finding a course or technical schematics, and unless they're in the database chunk he doesn't have them. Given this, you believe it is acceptable to go wandering around space, spending hours to scan one little tiny patch at a time, wasting food, water, power, and other consumables, all to find a cure for a woman who, while admittedly important, is in no immediate danger nor will be in the near-future?

[Puddle-Jumper]

Let's count the ways it's a bad idea.

Each jump takes four hours, not counting the three they have to wait after. Since Destiny has proven it can't even detect an entire ship less than an hour away by FTL, one FTL-capable itself no less, that's already skipping huge areas of space.

Destiny has also proven itself capable of detecting energy signatures a days journey away in FTL.

Total time for each jump is seven hours. That's nearly a day to search three spots. Since they cannot search a large area, they're going to have to double-back if they miss, wasting at least 14 hours per spot. That adds up.

Okay so time being wasted... and?

Then move on to resources. They have a crew numbering nearly two-hundred to feed. Without the gate, they cannot be assumed to have collected a massive amount of supplies, certainly not enough to sustain a population of that size for more than a month.

Then Destiny can do something drastic and completely and utterly insane like drop off some people on the colony they are going to, take some time to collect food/water on that planet, recharge at their star and come back to search for the ship.

Next is the ship itself. Destiny isn't exactly running on all cylinders. It needs to recharge, and bouncing into FTL over and over is going to waste power. The ship has to leave the area, run through a star (which will take two days at the least for a round trip), then come back. More time wasted.

Okay so time wasted.. or time spent fixing up the ship maybe? It's not like they're in a rush (pun intended)

So, to recap, you have a medical officer with a condition she will explicitly not be impaired by for years to come. You have a ship that has limited resources for both its crew and its own operation. You have a vast area of space which will take a long time to search even under the best of circumstances. Eli mentioned nothing about finding a course or technical schematics, and unless they're in the database chunk he doesn't have them. Given this, you believe it is acceptable to go wandering around space, spending hours to scan one little tiny patch at a time, wasting food, water, power, and other consumables, all to find a cure for a woman who, while admittedly important, is in no immediate danger nor will be in the near-future?

Okay then lets put the medical officer thing aside (even though it is very important).... Im not entirely sure on this, its just a wild guess and completely insane theory.... but I think TJ might...... might... be friends with some of the people on the ship.. actually some of them I think.... might... even owe her their lives, though that is just a wild guess on my part. And maybe some of those people wouldn't mind spending a few weeks or months trying to repair the favour by doing the exact same thing they would normally be doing, only this time with the added benefit of saving their friends life.

[morbosfist]

Destiny has also proven itself capable of detecting energy signatures a days journey away in FTL.

Of a great many dead ships, yet not a fully active one much closer. What does this tell you?

Then Destiny can do something drastic and completely and utterly insane like drop off some people on the colony they are going to, take some time to collect food/water on that planet, recharge at their star and come back to search for the ship.

And repeat this how many times?

Okay so time wasted.. or time spent fixing up the ship maybe? It's not like they're in a rush (pun intended)

They are if they want to get out of drone territory.

Okay then lets put the medical officer thing aside (even though it is very important).... Im not entirely sure on this, its just a wild guess and completely insane theory.... but I think TJ might...... might... be friends with some of the people on the ship.. actually some of them I think.... might... even owe her their lives, though that is just a wild guess on my part. And maybe some of those people wouldn't mind spending a few weeks or months trying to repair the favour by doing the exact same thing they would normally be doing, only this time with the added benefit of saving their friends life.

Yet Eli dismisses it out of hand. Doesn't strike me as the type to write her off, so what does that say about his opinion of such a venture?

[tomstone]

Given this, you believe it is acceptable to go wandering around space, spending hours to scan one little tiny patch at a time, wasting food, water, power, and other consumables, all to find a cure for a woman who, while admittedly important, is in no immediate danger nor will be in the near-future?

Yes!
Number 1: She is the only qualified medic onboard with great abilities and even if she teaches others, they will take long to catch up with everything.
Number 2: What are you expecting to happen to her that it wont be a problem in a few Years ahead? If you think in the longrun, they wont get a better chance than actual People that have cured the Illness long ago.

Destiny in FTL needs 10 days, their Ships need 200 years. It should be fairly easy under the mathletes of Destiny to figure out where more or less they are on a straight course to the new Planet.

[Duneknight]

I actually thought she was gonna die in the first season for obvious reasons. btw, what happened to the whole staring at a nebula moment? they spent a great deal on the baby only so she can get shot lose the baby. get visited by destiny's simulation all so she can stare at a nebula? I hope the purpose of the whole novus plotline wasnt just meant for optimistic kino footage. Like how blueberries only infected Chloe so a season later they would cure her. Or how the planet builders just gave us one episode of mystery. ursini killed themselves in asgard fashion. Everything is anti-climatic so im curious to see how this season ends with this new novus storyline.

[Puddle-Jumper]

Of a great many dead ships, yet not a fully active one much closer. What does this tell you?

What ship are you talking about? One of the drone ships? In the greater good they detected the ship and dropped out which tells me.. Destiny has some pretty nifty sensors that those very clever drones have found a way to cloak themselves from. They were built for a war afterall.

And repeat this how many times?

They are if they want to get out of drone territory.

Yet Eli dismisses it out of hand. Doesn't strike me as the type to write her off, so what does that say about his opinion of such a venture?

and it didn't make any sense for Eli to dismiss it (he does only have one semister of college under his belt btw) Destiny has found ships, and being found by other aliens on many occasions. Eli was able to say that they wouldn't arrive for 200 years, that says to me that they know the ships speed, or at least have a rough estimate. They know when the ships left, they know where they are going. From that information alone any teenager with a calculator would be able to work out approxmiately where the novan ships would be, we've seen Destinys sensors detect other ships before, so why not now, even if they don't find them what damage could spending a month looking do?

And yes getting out of drone occupied space is important, but as we've seen they detect the stargates not the ship and as you've been arguing space is very very big what are the chances of the drones finding them without using a gate?

[morbosfist]

What ship are you talking about? One of the drone ships? In the greater good they detected the ship and dropped out which tells me.. Destiny has some pretty nifty sensors that those very clever drones have found a way to cloak themselves from. They were built for a war afterall.

We only see them drop out, and Rush was responsible. We never see the ship being detected. We do know that it could not detect the drone carrier in FTL, and the drones had never before encountered Destiny. By that, we can only come to the conclusion that it cannot detect objects in FTL.

and it didn't make any sense for Eli to dismiss it (he does only have one semister of college under his belt btw) Destiny has found ships, and being found by other aliens on many occasions. Eli was able to say that they wouldn't arrive for 200 years, that says to me that they know the ships speed, or at least have a rough estimate. They know when the ships left, they know where they are going. From that information alone any teenager with a calculator would be able to work out approxmiately where the novan ships would be, we've seen Destinys sensors detect other ships before, so why not now, even if they don't find them what damage could spending a month looking do?

And yes getting out of drone occupied space is important, but as we've seen they detect the stargates not the ship and as you've been arguing space is very very big what are the chances of the drones finding them without using a gate?

Eli's a math whiz. He knows better than to think they could find the ships in the void. You may be overly optimistic on this account, but the reality is different.

Destiny needs to get out of drone space to use the gate, which is important if they intend to gather resources at any sort of meaningful pace. Just because the drones can't find them now doesn't change the fact that their mere presence disables a crucial supply line.

[Puddle-Jumper]

We only see them drop out, and Rush was responsible. We never see the ship being detected. We do know that it could not detect the drone carrier in FTL, and the drones had never before encountered Destiny. By that, we can only come to the conclusion that it cannot detect objects in FTL.

So Rush just happened to make Destiny drop out of FTL right next to an alien ship by accident?

Okay then fine it can't detect nothing while in FTL, they are flying completely blind. That still doesn't stop them from dropping people off at the planet and coming back and looking at sublight speeds now does it. We've seen Destiny detect the power signature from the ship grave yard, which yes may have been big, but it was also a lot further away then the novan ships would be given that they would be able to work out an approximate area they would be in.

Eli's a math whiz. He knows better than to think they could find the ships in the void. You may be overly optimistic on this account, but the reality is different.

Destiny needs to get out of drone space to use the gate, which is important if they intend to gather resources at any sort of meaningful pace. Just because the drones can't find them now doesn't change the fact that their mere presence disables a crucial supply line.

Overly optimistic to think that Destiny with its extremely advanced technology and sensors couldn't find a few ships given a month even though they know where to look? how fast they are travelling? What the ships look like? Infact probably everything about the ships? Including what powers them? The type of engines they have?

Who needs a stargate when you have a perfectly habitable planet a few days away by FTL? Stock up and come back, simple.

To be honest it just seems like something that the writers glossed over to add drama to the ALS, along with why no one in the new novan society would have absolutely no knowledge of it and why they wouldn't have a copy of their own database.

[morbosfist]

So Rush just happened to make Destiny drop out of FTL right next to an alien ship by accident?

Okay then fine it can't detect nothing while in FTL, they are flying completely blind. That still doesn't stop them from dropping people off at the planet and coming back and looking at sublight speeds now does it. We've seen Destiny detect the power signature from the ship grave yard, which yes may have been big, but it was also a lot further away then the novan ships would be given that they would be able to work out an approximate area they would be in.

It means Rush detected it offscreen, being the only one with full sensor access, and had the ship stop of his own accord.

Looking at sublights speeds would be even stupider. Then not only would they be gaining now relative ground, they'd have to stop literally right on top of it. Moreover, it would take even longer.

We saw Destiny detect a large mass of signatures can could not distinguish what was generating it. The Novan ships are roughly the same distance away. If Destiny could detect them, it already would have.

Overly optimistic to think that Destiny with its extremely advanced technology and sensors couldn't find a few ships given a month even though they know where to look? how fast they are travelling? What the ships look like? Infact probably everything about the ships? Including what powers them? The type of engines they have?

You assume they have all that data. We never saw them mention anything remotely like that. They may know the basic specs, but if they had an exact location Eli would not be dismissing it. So yes, it is overly optimistic to suggest that Destiny could find the ships for want of doing so when we've seen its sensors just aren't that good.

Who needs a stargate when you have a perfectly habitable planet a few days away by FTL? Stock up and come back, simple.

Days turn to weeks, to months, etc. How long do you propose the crew waste searching for a needle in a haystack? You're acting like it's some "OMG fix it!" scenario they must absolutely solve.

To be honest it just seems like something that the writers glossed over to add drama to the ALS, along with why no one in the new novan society would have absolutely no knowledge of it and why they wouldn't have a copy of their own database.

They do bring up why they can't find them, because space is big. Eli alludes to as much when he denies it. It isn't being glossed over, people were just spoiled by Atlantis improbably succeeding in pulling it off.

[Shylodog]

Since Destiny has proven it can't even detect an entire ship less than an hour away by FTL, one FTL-capable itself no less, that's already skipping huge areas of space.

Ships in hyperspace cannot be tracked, according to Sam. Only with the Asgard computer core online were the Ori able to track them. The Smurfs and drone command ships utilize Hyperspace technology, not the same as Destiny's FTL. The only time Destiny didn't detect the command ship right away (as far as I could tell) was when they were beat up pretty badly and dragged to one by the Ursini.

I have yet to find a reference in the show where they specifically state Destiny cannot scan in FTL.