'Deliverance' (211) General Discussion

[Gollumpus]

I thought the interaction between Rush and Wray was interesting. Was he just annoyed at every other person commenting on his kinder and gentler side, or was he inferring to Wray that he does indeed have a "plan"?

regards,
G.

[Krisz]

A good solid episode, so good to have SGU back! Back to certain old school Stargate fixes though, especially with the way the drone was brought on board the Destiny and its technology unraveled in a miraculously short time frame again. Yes, I too was reminded of that drone mine SG-1 brought on board the cargo ship in 'The Serpent's Venom'.

Most of all I loved how the characters interacted in the face of this latest adversity. Lovely fleeting moments that showed how much they had bonded in the time they've been together. Young's face trying to look impassive as Chloe kissed him goodbye! Scott walking out of the shuttle holding Chloe's hand, uncertain about what was to happen, echoing the look in 'Cloverdale' during the marriage scene.

Rush, oh Rush, what a character! Totally throwing us as the viewers and his hapless crewmates with the Mr Nice Guy routine. I can't believe for a moment that he has changed, just uses what he's learnt about them to manipulate them to allow him to continue with his perceived mission with as little interference as possible. By keeping them busy with 'important' things they won't notice what he's really up to so readily! You can get lost in the maze of Rush's character, that's why I like him so much, and played so well by Carlyle.

Another alien race bites the dust! Wasn't season two written taking into account the possibility that there may not be a renewal for another season? If so, the way the Ursini went out, with noble intent at least was not a bad way to end that storyline. I suppose if SGU continued it was left as an assumption that their race was extinct, leaving open the possibility that other groups of Ursini could still be scattered around the galaxy. Poor Telford, he looked genuinely shocked and sad when their ship was destroyed.

As for Chloe, I'm not so sure she still has the knowledge. She may remember equations, but were the ones she gave Rush to look at correct, or was he just saying it to make her feel that she was still useful? Maybe he didn't want to tell her after all she'd been through as he does seem to genuinely care for her.

"Everything happens for a reason". So Rush is considering that. It was funny that as a result he now feels that Young leaving him on the planet wasn't such a bad thing after all. Guess Young did knock some sense into his head with the 'head butt of doom' after all!

[Gollumpus]

A couple of other thoughts that have crept into my sleepy brain just before bed:

1.) Rush actually consulted with Young on the plan to use the drones against one another. This appears as though Rush is keeping faith with his promise of co-operation.

I suspect that if this were an earlier episode, Rush would go ahead on the plan without telling Young. Young would have found out from another source (say Eli) and then Young would have sent Greer to prevent the drone being activated. There would be a dramatic moment of "do we let Rush do this or not, or do we just shoot him?"

2.) Is this souvenir drone going to be used in an upcoming episode?


regards,
G.

[eidos]

^^

So, who here likes new human Rush?

New human Rush has "philosopher-king in the making" potential...

All he has to do now, is demonstrate the Four Cardinal Virtues - courage, wisdom, moderation and justice.

[morbosfist]

2.) Is this souvenir drone going to be used in an upcoming episode?

Eli will reprogram it as a pet, playing fetch with it using Kinos. Many people will be injured.

[antipodal]

Source: MGM : 27 FX images from Deliverance.

[garhkal]

[QUOTE=Petra;12396099] Bad stuff:

My main beef is that everything was just a tad too convenient for me. Ursini sacrificed themselves for us, even though that made no sense in light of their previous behaviour and the knowledge that they were the last of their kind. Shouldn't they want to preserve their civilisation somehow?[/quoote]

WE have seen that before (COUGH asgard COUGH). BUT perhaps their realization that they ARE the last, along with the guilt of bringing the 2nd command ship pushed them from grief to suicide..

Eli and Rush figuring everything out and getting the drone to work just in time was also a bit too contrived to me.

That they were even able to hack in was surprising to me.. A totally UN MW/PG galaxy alien race and we can get in just like that..?

Finally, as happy as I was to see more of Lt James I couldn't help but think it was weird she was so inexperienced with the ships' systems. She's one of the highest ranking people onboard so she should also be spending a lot of time getting herself acquainted with Destiny's systems, IMO.

Maybe cause OF her high rank, she has duties elsewhere..

Neutral stuff:

I'm not sure what I think of this new Rush. On the one hand it's nice to see more human side of him, which up untill now came out to play only with Mandy around. Otoh I take VampyreWraith's point that such mushy stuff doesn't suit him and just feels weird. I can't help but think he's up to something again.

Me thinks its cause of his realization of his causiing mandy's death he has gotten a new outlook...

Brody/Volker were great as usual and as I mentioned it was great to see James.

AND it was awesome to see Rush complement them.

Eli was the biggest hero this week. Rush was right, he's amazing when he applies himself and for all the rescuing Chloe did in the episode it really was Eli who saved everyone.

His ideas did save the day..

Huh? Do you mean the communication from the Blues who've been following Destiny for the better part of the year and after kidnapping Rush and Chloe had plenty of opportunity to learn English?

And isn't that very Stargate-y anyway? Remember the Nox?

Plus we know after the 1st run in they DID 'send messages in engish".. rememer when they told us to surrender..

The previous show's never explained how practically every alien spoke fluent English.

I think they said it was because most were picked up FROM earth...

I thought the Ursini's sacrifice was understandable and proves they were basically good guys. They dropped Destiny in it originally to save their race/colony but once all hope of that was gone (and with nothing to go back to) they wanted to go out doing the decent thing.

Precicely... Their run was up as a race, and they probabily felt the least they could do was made good for getting us into it with them.

1.) Rush actually consulted with Young on the plan to use the drones against one another. This appears as though Rush is keeping faith with his promise of co-operation.

Well, with everyone else knowing what is up, it was kind of hard not to.

[senilegreen]

Thanks to the new schedule I was totally confused about airing time.

Anyway, the episode left me wondering about many things, not the least of which is why the script didn't have an editor whose job it was to have things make sense.

This episode also demonstrated the traditional strengths and weaknesses of the current Stargate franchise team (producers, production, etc.) The big picture story arc is interesting, some ideas are interesting, and most of the acting/production is quality.

Where I mark this episode down (similarly to many previous SGU episodes) is when I ask myself: would a real person in a particular situation (as presented in the story-line) act as presented? Too often the answer is: no. E.g., would you give over to your enemy a severely compromised fellow who knows your deepest secrets?

Then of course we have (in traditional Stargate fashion) the total abandonment of any pretense to being part of the real universe, like how those drones just stopped moving in empty space once their command unit stopped sending out a signal. Hello there script-writers - have you ever heard of the concept called "inertia"?

It's just laziness on the part of the writers and producers: the all too often used machina-ex-deus, rushing the story-line at the end because everything turns out ok anyway, the canned dialog, the magical computer programmer, and such.

Just laziness.

Sorry, this episode left a bad taste.

[senilegreen]

... SGU deserves to last just another half season imho. ...

Yup, agree with everything you wrote. This episode really exposed the weaknesses of how SGU turned out.

Even if next week we discover this episode was just another delusion (courtesy of the ship's ultra-psychic powers), that in itself is a plot device to no-where.

[Egle01]

Even if next week we discover this episode was just another delusion (courtesy of the ship's ultra-psychic powers), that in itself is a plot device to no-where.

What about character development? Last time we saw an episode that featured ship's ultra-psychic powers was "Trial and Error", and that was big Young episode. Or do you mean how the ship tried to protect TJ who had lost her child? It's anything but pointless.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I think Rush's change is entirely pragmatic in nature. He's realising that he gets a lot more out of the crew when he treats them a certain way, and I think he also knows he's going to need them on board (in more way that one) in the future.

^^yep to this. I don't see Rush changing overly much, but I do see him changing methods, especially when he realizes how much he needs everyone.

i laugh. people in an entirely different galaxy spoke english. without any way to have possible learned it. and you call the Blues communicating via text in english, using nothing but a few simple words "crazy" or something like that? wake up.

^^cookies for you

This was a fairly solid episode, even if I sort of knew how it was going to play out. Where SGU excels, as always, is that I CARE about who these people are and the situation they're in. All of them, even the frenemies. If this were some other show, I doubt I would.

Bitter whack of feedy after a rewatch

[Shan Bruce Lee]

All the action in this episode was great. I was a little surprised that had that much in the episode considering it was all a space battle.

Anyone else think that Rush's speech at the end sounded almost word for word like something that John Locke would say?

I did start to think "oh great, he's the 'man of faith' now"

[Perelandra]

In general I really liked this episode although I need to do a re-watch to give it a proper review.
I watched it Mon. with my teenage son who asked lots of questions so I missed some dialogue. Loved Park-she rocked. Loved the look on her face when they went into FTL with the shields at 5%.
If you like space battles, this is the episode for you.
I loved Greer, Park and Scott in the shuttle and I, too, loved Park in her suit.
Loved watching the shuttle fly through the incoming firing.
I liked the scene with Matt and Chloe, very moving, maybe drug on a bit too long but considering they thought that they may never see her again-appropriate.
Loved Chloe's kiss to Young on the cheek. Interesting that the last option he dreamed about in T and E was the one that wound up being the one he had to choose.
Loved Rush's little speech to Chloe- is he really a changed man? Is Chloe really cured?
Loved the spooky alien probe scene with Chloe and her floating in the beam .Loved Brody, Volker and Eli.
Not too sure I liked the Ursini sacrifice-maybe I need that re-watch to understand where that was coming from-to me it seemed out of the blue, but it did buy Destiny time.
All in all I give it an 8/10

[kudra]

You mean like when Chloe attacked Rush after her father had died? They weren't exactly getting along in "Water" either. And that's why I love their relationship right now.

True, special bond from the start is wrong (I haven't re-watched S1 recently) but I do remember thinking he seemed slightly softer towards her than others, he seemed to care about her feelings after she attacked him, he tried (badly) to comfort her and in Space he risked himself to save her etc.

With this episode, I did wonder if Rush could be a blue sleeper agent as well & that's why he sent her back to them but then again he dropped her in it to keep the bridge secret, so probably not.

I do think the Mandy thing has caused him to - re-evaluate his methods which explains nicer Rush. It's similar to how re-living Glorias death changed him after Human. I suppose the question is how far reaching and long lastng will the change be? Personally I hope he doesn't stay too nice, I like snarky, difficult Rush.

[SupremeLegate]

I thought this was a decent episode. I think it would have done, and felt, better if it had aired soon after the last episode instead of three months later. I did skip through the Chloe/Scott scene, I just cannot stand those scenes anymore.