Stuff that bugged me in 'Common Descent'

[The Destiny]

• I can understand our people living in primitive-ish homes/cabins, but did they en masse decide to embrace Amish fashion sense or what?

Actually I noticed that the Novus people were still wearing their original Novus 'uniforms', albeit very worn and probably patched up. Everyone's clothes looked more or less the same and many were wearing some sort of blue clothes underneath the brown clothes. Their clothes still had zippers too. I guessed these were their original Novus clothes but really worn after 30 years and with other clothing added that they made locally on the planet.

Hold on, I've got screens for it, you can see all of them have similar clothing which looks like old uniforms, or at least certain fashion.

[spaceship]

I wish I could find clothes that lasted 30 years. I hate buying new underwear.

[Shylodog]

Actually I noticed that the Novus people were still wearing their original Novus 'uniforms', albeit very worn and probably patched up. Everyone's clothes looked more or less the same and many were wearing some sort of blue clothes underneath the brown clothes. Their clothes still had zippers too. I guessed these were their original Novus clothes but really worn after 30 years and with other clothing added that they made locally on the planet.

Hold on, I've got screens for it, you can see all of them have similar clothing which looks like old uniforms, or at least certain fashion.

That wasn't what he meant. He meant Destiny's crew after they settled on Novus.

Also, for those who were perplexed about the language, it appears that all Novans were required to watch "The Testiment" which is in English. So it would make sense that they still speak English.

[The Destiny]

That wasn't what he meant. He meant Destiny's crew after they settled on Novus.

We saw little of their clothing in the Kino recordings, mostly their destiny clothing/uniforms. The only time we saw other clothes were in the "10 years later" recording, and I saw quite a lot of their old clothing styles too. I think I saw volker from the back with his old clothes. It didn't really look like "Amish clothing". If Digi meant that instead of the Novus people then I guess I misunderstood, although it was very little footage and isn't really all the unexplainable. You have limited resources; simple clothing to replace your old clothing.

[Shylodog]

We saw little of their clothing in the Kino recordings, mostly their destiny clothing/uniforms. The only time we saw other clothes were in the "10 years later" recording, and I saw quite a lot of their old clothing styles too. I think I saw volker from the back with his old clothes. It didn't really look like "Amish clothing". If Digi meant that instead of the Novus people then I guess I misunderstood, although it was very little footage and isn't really all the unexplainable. You have limited resources; simple clothing to replace your old clothing.

Until Digi tells us, he may also have been referring to

Spoiler:

the clothing that we see in the upcoming episode where Scott and Chloe are sitting together on the couch.

In the "Young Speech" he was wearing clothing that looked very dated. I would say that their clothing looked "Amish" because it was just so simplistic. I would gather that making needles and thread (let alone looms and spinning wheels) are incredibly hard to make from scratch. I was actually suprised their clothing looked as advanced as it did, even 10 to 20 years later.

[jelgate]

• I'm pretty sure Deep Space Nine did this story in 1997
• that the locals speak flawless English--including slang--after 2000 years have passed. I know English has been a continuous conceit of the franchise, but SGU has been very very good about doing away with such things. And languages evolve even across decades, never mind centuries or even millennia
• these people have been living on this planet for 30 years....and they're still living in tents?
• how is it that Wray (apparently) has descendants?
• is 80-odd people (actually probably closer to 50 or 60, subtracting casualties) really enough of a genetic base to be viable for survival?
• I can understand our people living in primitive-ish homes/cabins, but did they en masse decide to embrace Amish fashion sense or what?
• Er....volcanic winter shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not the city-planet's gate works or not (this may still be resolved in an upcoming episode, I don't know)

1. And DS9 probably took it from someone else. Their is no orginally plot devices these days. Even Stargate came from previous literature.
2. The logistics of getting the societies to communicate would have taken too much time away from the story. Its like every other science fiction show.
3. Its quite possible depending on what kind of condition the settlers are in. The harsh conditions of the planet are largely unknown.
4. Well you see when a man and a woman go into to bed with one another....
5. She explains it so much better than me
6. When you go from nothing Amish type is an immediate needed to get the resources to industralize.
7. An outpour of lava would occur when the supervolcano went off followed by the ash in the atomsphere.
8. I like alcohol on Friday nights

[The Destiny]

8. I like alcohol on Friday nights

I think I'll join you, what with the promo for episode 18 kicking us in the face with "..only 3 episodes left!!"

[traylormatt]

The tent thing is totally mental. No justification for it. I am sure if a community were stranded for even a year they would have built decent homes for themselves.

What I thought was funnier is that they have 2000 years to come up with a better design for a tent and yet they have identical tents that we use today. They could have had something a little cool looking.

[The Destiny]

who knows, maybe our current tents are the pinnacel of tent evolution

It seemed very odd they did so little in 30 years, I'll give you that. If they had said 5 or 10 years I would've bought it. They did have some structures though and generators and stuff but those could have come from Novus when they first arrived. Maybe the conditions were too harsh to build, the wood too fragile, or the wintersnow so heavy stable buildings were hard to build.. or something.. I dunno.. I'm just making stuff up....

[zainea13]

After 2,000 years a language would change no matter what. Even if it didn't have outside influences. For instance, people get lazy. A prof told me that it is predicted over the next 100 years the apostrophe will disappear.

Look at French, once upon a time every letter was pronounced, now every word, while spelled very differently sounds very much like other words.

Also, a local example here. There is a city by me called "Cuyahoga," (influence from native americans, but nevertheless to show the deterioation of the word over time) it is properly pronounced Kai-ya-ho-ga ... but the locals pronounce it (and now sometimes I do too) Ka-hog-a ... Out of simplification.

Also, I like one theory that English to them is like Latin to us. Because it is not our everyday language, it remains unchanged and is universally understood by those who speak it.

So, when Matt yeld 'Halt!' the teenagers recognized that as English and responded in kind. As for slang, to the people that live there now, to them slang probably is part of the language, and they don't realize it is slang. I'm sure there are some slang phrases in latin that at the time were slang, but to us they seem like proper words.

[Puddle-Jumper]

I'm pretty sure Deep Space Nine did this story in 1997

Whats your point?

that the locals speak flawless English--including slang--after 2000 years have passed. I know English has been a continuous conceit of the franchise, but SGU has been very very good about doing away with such things. And languages evolve even across decades, never mind centuries or even millennia

Given they recognised the lads from the kino tapes, its likely that similar to how we're taught history in school, these people are raised being shown the kino tapes, of which there is probably hundreds of hours if not more, not to mention diarys, books and everything else that the Destiny crew would leave behind, plus it'd seem like they have some technology, they had generators so probably computers, with history written by the people from Destiny, like english we speak is probably their source for everything, both and slang and what not.. so its not as crazy as you might think

these people have been living on this planet for 30 years....and they're still living in tents?

They said they were low on supplies, perhaps the planet doesn't experience bad winters, or at least maybe they don't in the part that they're in and the tents provide adequate accomodation and they are more concerned with gathering food then building penthouses.. like even though they're living in tents.. it seems like they have a relatively comfortable life, some might even say more so then people on Destiny, being outside and what not.

how is it that Wray (apparently) has descendants?

Well sometimes when a man and a woman decide that they need to have children in order for their civilisation to survive, they do it.. hard and fast.. like Branigans law

is 80-odd people (actually probably closer to 50 or 60, subtracting casualties) really enough of a genetic base to be viable for survival?

Probably not, but they had a wide genetic base with people from various ethnic origins so its not impossible, its very possible that some genetisist chose people to selectively breed in order to maximise the potential.

I can understand our people living in primitive-ish homes/cabins, but did they en masse decide to embrace Amish fashion sense or what?

Yes they embraced the Amish life style............ or they made their clothes with whatever was readily available i.e. the basics.. somewhat like the amish?

Er....volcanic winter shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not the city-planet's gate works or not (this may still be resolved in an upcoming episode, I don't know)

No chance the gate was destroyed/buried by whatever volcano caused the volcanic winter? The city we saw could well have been on the other side of the planet to the volcano which is why it wasn't damaged

[Petra]

[list][*]I'm pretty sure Deep Space Nine did this story in 1997

It's a good thing then that I've never seen DS9

More seriously, I seem to be the only one feeling pretty nostalgic about it. I mean, Stargate has never been particularly original and kept retelling stories that had already been used in other series. SG's strength was in how these stories were re-told: with care, enthusiasm and distinct new Stargate spin. And that's how this story is told and that's why I enjoy it.

PS. Wasn't Beneath the Surface, which is in my all time Top 3 SG-1 episodes also a remake of a Voyager ep or something?

[*]that the locals speak flawless English--including slang--after 2000 years have passed. I know English has been a continuous conceit of the franchise, but SGU has been very very good about doing away with such things. And languages evolve even across decades, never mind centuries or even millennia

Yep, they do but as it's been pointed out certain conditions must exist for a language to change, mainly outside influence (which wasn't a factor in this case) and development of new things/phenomena that would need to be named (this is an unknown factor atm).

Also, zainea13 has an interesting and very probable explanation:

Also, I like one theory that English to them is like Latin to us. Because it is not our everyday language, it remains unchanged and is universally understood by those who speak it.

So, when Matt yeld 'Halt!' the teenagers recognized that as English and responded in kind. As for slang, to the people that live there now, to them slang probably is part of the language, and they don't realize it is slang. I'm sure there are some slang phrases in latin that at the time were slang, but to us they seem like proper words.

All in all, while at first my reaction mirrored Digi's after giving it some thought it doesn't bother me anymore because there are pretty realistic explanations.

[*]these people have been living on this planet for 30 years....and they're still living in tents?

I'll give you that and admith this was my first reaction too. And unlike with the language thing, nothing I've read here convinced me that there was an in-story reason for it. Tents seem to be a silly goof on the production/writing team's part.

[*]how is it that Wray (apparently) has descendants?

I honestly didn't get the impression that she had any. She's not the only Asian onboard after all.

[*]I can understand our people living in primitive-ish homes/cabins, but did they en masse decide to embrace Amish fashion sense or what?

LOL. I had a different problem with their clothes. I kept looking at that shirt Eli had on in his "10 years later" kino montage and thinking: "Okay, I can understand the shirt; but when/where/how did you get the plastic buttons that go with it?"

The only thing that trully bugged me was that T.J. had a son with Young and not Varro. :-)
T.J. and Varro storyline was interesting and they just throw it out the window. IMO it would be much cooler if the baby was Varro's.

Firstly, I don't think the writers "threw the TJ/Varro ship out the window". For one, what happened in an alternate timeline in different circumstances has no bearing on our timeline. For example, in an alternate timeline of "2010" in SG-1 Sam was married to Joe; in our real timeline he was left behind and she ended up with Jack For two, we don't know what happened to Varro. Maybe he died on the planet and that's why TJ was with Young? We just don't know.

Besides, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Young was the father because I did expect it to be Varro's kid. The way I see it, it adds a new layer to TJ/Varro/Young triangle and makes it even more interesting.

And, since there are only a couple of characters on Destiny with distinctly Chinese (or East Asian) features, interbreeding will cause the loss of physical traits other than truly dominant characteristics, like brown eyes. Same goes for the black founding population, of which there is Greer and who else?

1. How do you know there are only a couple of Asian characters? Main/supporting characters - sure. But apart from them there is about 70 other people and chances are, some of them are Asian too.
2. Off the top of my head, there's also Becker (the cook). And I'm pretty sure I've seen a black woman onboard too. Plus, you know, there's 70+ other people...

[Pond Hopper]

I think it'll take humanity a bit more than 2,000 years to reach that stage. The ancients spent millions of years flying around in spaceships and there were still some walking around in Atlantis which hadn't ascended yet.

Not to mention genetic retardation due to inbreeding.

[greenguywithlasereye]

my way to 'justify' how maybe the alt.destiny crew in their lifetime during the kino view, might have been able to build 19th cent. type housing and such - would have to do with some imagination.

Of course, from the faith planet situation, those who chose to stay there only had rough ideas on survival if that...however at the same time id not assume the entire destiny crew has no such knowledge - afterall, dont forget they were the icarus base staff, so a few of the military must know a thing or two about surviving. [of course if thats true and they told the faith survivors but that takes a while and they had an ftl sched. to keep]...

so, i can maybe be ok w/that. a stretch perhaps but, i might see how. of course, that'd mean building smith shops/welding, to build saws/carpentry, foundry equipment to build steel. Novus after all became their descendants [not during alt.destinys lifetimes?] world some time later on. Eli knows parts say for solar panels etc but probably not how to mine/extract the hardware. and its simplistic, so, at best mining was quite limited [during their lives].

When young became aged, was that on novus, or the world originally gated to? side note.
Im going w/its possible, cuz i really like this storyline here!

[Nth Chevron]

How about they find some iron ore which is easily recognizable and lit a fire and err melted it to form basic shapes, from there the shapes grew as they kept churning it out and refining it.

Basically they started at pretty much the beginning of the industrial revolution in iron, but they had the knowledge of where to go and kind of how to do it so i think that would have shaved a few hundred years from their industralization period.

Passing on their knowledge of mathematics and basic understanding of modern day Earth engineering and advanced tips from the SG programme vets, passing them down and improving up what they had to begin with, i dont see it as unreasonable that after 1000 years the civilisation had reached where modern day Earth was when Eli left, then they expanded upon and honed and refine etc etc.

Correct me if i am wrong, but doesnt the fact that they were breeding and living in an alien environment to the species ADD to the genetic diversity?

Weather conditions, illnesses, compounds, elements, flora, fauna, food, water, soil, crops etc etc, could all have had very small and unnoticeable changes on their DNA over time which diversified as it will have affected each persons DNA and physiology differently.

Not to mention they began exploring other worlds in range of Novus with settlements and colonies which would have further added to the diversity by more factors and above mentioned variables which may have affected our DNA because it had to adapt to a completely different environment than the one it has existed on for 200,000 or so years.

Also, whoever the hell keeps making a thread every episode to bash the crap out of points that are a failure of imagination to figure out or out of pure spite/nothing better to do, please stop because its irritating and giving me gas ....

N.C