'Awakening' (203) General Discussion

[SciFiRick]

I would think dialing the 9th chevron address was something Ancients were planing to do from Atlantis.

Even if needed, I'm sure the Ancients would have been able to add however many more ZPM's in order to make it possible.

Remember in "Air" that it was discovered that Destiny was launched from Earth which could lead to one thinking that Earth could also be the jump off point of departure for a crew but since we really don't know the intent it is most likely that with the Ancients thinking redundancy that they probably had several jump off points to choose.

Certainly not impossible to consider multiple ZPM's but I have a feeling that it was something more than that for the power needed to reach the distances that Destiny has and will eventually reach.

It was mentioned that if Destiny went through the Pegasus galaxy and they transported stargates in that galaxy, why aren't those older gates their now. I would theorize that once the Ancients settled in the Pegasus galaxy they eventually upgraded the gates in that galaxy. If they can seed gates in a galaxy far, far away then seeding upgraded gates and DHD's in the Pegasus would be a snap.

[Misfits]

I'm not saying that there is not a remote possibility that Rush reversed the power flow, but I find it highly unlikely that he did. IMO, he has absolutely nothing to gain by reversing it. Stopping it yes and then coming up with some bs about not knowing why it had stopped to buy him some time. Supposedly Destiny was going to undock from the seeder once the download of info was complete, or that was the impression that I got, which was why this had to be done now because this was the only chance before Destiny jumped away.

He reverses it, then what?

I just noticed this.

The power flow was set up from seeder to Destiny.
The Dialing from Destiny to Earth started.
Then the Power flow from Seeder ship to Destiny stopped.
Rush says, 'I'm not sure, but it appears that tapping this ship's energy reserves seems more problematical than we thought.'
Dunning is stunned.
Power flow starts to flow from Destiny to Seeder Ship.
Eli calls Rush, but no answer.
We see Rush on the ground, presumably stunned like Dunning.
REMEMBER THIS SPOT
The scenes continue.
Telford tries to do things, orders Scott and Greer to take Dunning and Rush back.
The only radio chatter from now on is how to reverse the current power flow.
Greer and Scott finally reach the dock to Destiny. Until now Dunning and Rush are still stunned.
First person to emerge is Rush, dazed and hurriedly running into Destiny.
REMEMBER THIS SPOT
At this point Young takes the radio from Eli and tells Scott that he wants Rush at the control room.
Rush has already disappeared, presumably on his way to the bridge.
Destiny un-docks from Seeder ship.

These are the sequence of events that I saw.
If you look, between the two spots I specified, Rush is stunned and unconscious, had to be dragged to Destiny by Greer.
After Rush emerges from the Seeder ship dock door, there is no mention of the current situation.
Everybody knows what's going on, except Rush and Dunning, who were stunned before the power flow from Destiny to Seeder ship supposedly started.
One of O'Neill's famous lines is 'What's going on?' when he comes to from a stunned state.
So, the most logical thing would be for Rush to ask 'What's going on?' before running off. All we see is him running off. There were no radio chatter to give any indication of the current situation.
So, the most interesting question is, how did Rush know?
He just decided to run to the bridge to figure out? He wanted to keep the bridge a secret.
His actions don't add up.
He acted as if he knew what was going on even though he was stunned the whole time.
I would think that he knew because he is the one who set the power flow from Destiny to Seed ship in motion.

I can't find another rational explanation.
What do you think?

[morbosfist]

So, the most logical thing would be for Rush to ask 'What's going on?' before running off. All we see is him running off. There were no radio chatter to give any indication of the current situation.
So, the most interesting question is, how did Rush know?

Depending on how long he's been awake, he could have heard it over the radio, or Greer/Scott simply told him.

[Misfits]

Remember in "Air" that it was discovered that Destiny was launched from Earth which could lead to one thinking that Earth could also be the jump off point of departure for a crew but since we really don't know the intent it is most likely that with the Ancients thinking redundancy that they probably had several jump off points to choose.

Certainly not impossible to consider multiple ZPM's but I have a feeling that it was something more than that for the power needed to reach the distances that Destiny has and will eventually reach.

It was mentioned that if Destiny went through the Pegasus galaxy and they transported stargates in that galaxy, why aren't those older gates their now. I would theorize that once the Ancients settled in the Pegasus galaxy they eventually upgraded the gates in that galaxy. If they can seed gates in a galaxy far, far away then seeding upgraded gates and DHD's in the Pegasus would be a snap.

I agree with those points.
Atlantis was probably how Ancients planned to connect to Destiny.
Pegasus Galaxy was probably upgraded after the Ancients get there after they fled Milky Way due to plague.
The Stargates being used by the Seeder ships don't use the constallation symbols because they weren't meant to be used that way.
The Ancients probably would repeat this process, on ensuing Galaxies, if the war with Wraith didn't happen.

[Misfits]

Depending on how long he's been awake, he could have heard it over the radio, or Greer/Scott simply told him.

It could be a number of different things, yes, but remember that Dunning still needed help and he was stunned before Rush.
I find it interesting that what was seen suggests that Rush seemed to know as he hurried off.
Please, re-watch the scene sequence and make up your own mind.

[morbosfist]

It could be a number of different things, yes, but remember that Dunning still needed help and he was stunned before Rush.
I find it interesting that what was seen suggests that Rush seemed to know as he hurried off.
Please, re-watch the scene sequence and make up your own mind.

They're awake. Groggy, yes, but awake. They don't need to be fully mobile to be told what's happening.

[Misfits]

They're awake. Groggy, yes, but awake. They don't need to be fully mobile to be told what's happening.

They're awake and groggy. Still we don't know if they were updated on the current situation.
Under these circumstances you don't find Rush's actions suspicous?
Come on. You got to be kidding.

[morbosfist]

They're awake and groggy. Still we don't know if they were updated on the current situation.
Under these circumstances you don't find Rush's actions suspicous?
Come on. You got to be kidding.

No, I don't find his actions suspicious. Why? Because we don't know what he was told, and it is only logical to assume he'd ask upon waking up. Also, don't you think his wife, who thus far has been pretty good on calling him on his mistakes, would highlight such an utterly irresponsible action? She clearly treats his action like "necessary, but why'd you really do it?"

[Misfits]

No, I don't find his actions suspicious. Why? Because we don't know what he was told, and it is only logical to assume he'd ask upon waking up. Also, don't you think his wife, who thus far has been pretty good on calling him on his mistakes, would highlight such an utterly irresponsible action? She clearly treats his action like "necessary, but why'd you really do it?"

We do know he's stunned through out the time. we don't know what je was told, if anything at all.
As for his wife's question, did you do it to save the crew or save your dream?
From your point of view, what is his dream?

[morbosfist]

We do know he's stunned through out the time. we don't know what je was told, if anything at all.
As for his wife's question, did you do it to save the crew or save your dream?
From your point of view, what is his dream?

We know he's awake by the time they reach the airlock. You can go on and on about what we don't know, but the fact is it doesn't prove anything one way or the other.

His dream is beside the point. Her question says everything. Reversing the power wouldn't save the crew, and she'd have called him on it like with the shuttle. Regardless of his motivations, Rush acted to save the ship.

[mi_guard]

Morbosfist and Misfits: you two could create a group where you could discuss over and over all these open points without being disturbed by other users' comments

Luckily tonight the next episode will air so at least some of the points will be clarified - hopefully.

[garhkal]

Actually, where did you get real-time data transfer between ships theory?
Just because Rush theorized this doesn't make it a fact.

The amount of data Destiny has would make sense if there was periodic dock-data transfer.

.

Prob there is if that were the case how did we have the data on the gates up to and through into the new galaxy, where this ship was?

Why not? It would be fun.

Anyway, on a more serious note, iIf they have the means to connect to Destiny, then they also could connect to each galaxy, right?

All you would need to do is connect to a gate in the galaxy and you would get a data dump of the current info it has.

If Destiny had kept all the data it's ever traveled, then the Galaxy right after Pegasus would be million + years ago, right? Would you think there may have been some changes since it originally got the data? How accurate do you think Destiny's data would be?

Perhaps that is why the LA is so hot o the ship.. they had located a base that the destiny dialed for a brief few seconds for a 'data dump'... and noted it had all these galaxies it explored..

yes, just like that - with singing


It does get pretty circular after a while. All I can suggest is that when you find that a certain poster is locked into that mindset and it's starting to make you grind your teeth every time you see a post, use the ignore function. They'll still go on and on but you won't have to see it.

With as much of this thread as seems to be blocked with that stuff, i would be ignoring almost the entire thread.

Reminded me of Daniel sharing food with Kasuf, or even Daniel and Chakka is season four of SG1

I put it more to daniel and Chakka.... At least Kasuf was able to be chatted with.
AND Had a hot daughter for daniel to marry!

Rush would probably ignore anything he, himself. didn't discover.

He's an egotistical asshat but i do not see hi being that bad.

These Stargates aren't like the ones in the Milky Way. There's no indication they even work when Destiny's not in the neighborhood. Even if they did, again, where is all that data going to be stored? Can't go on the ship.

Some sort of home base with mass data storage capacity, much more than a ship could handle.

I'm not. I liked that the aliens took back what was theirs plus some.

like the IRS taking back taxes plus interest..

Again, the ship is getting a real-time data feed from the seed ships. All that data from galaxies well beyond them is being stored somewhere. Don't you think they'd have noticed if Destiny suddenly uploaded a ton of data off-site?

Maybe it has not reached that part again..

After reading that, I think Rush did stop the transfer, but then the little alien dudes came along and zatted him and reversed the transfer.

I am finding myself agree after reading the transcript.. Rush stopped it (sly *******) but the brownies reversed it.

Would Young have sent Eli over there to ferret out Rush. Possibly. But we'll never know.

Yup. Heck i could see young ordering all the scientists back over there.

They've already got a galaxy to themselves, why make another?

Technilogical advancement. We saw that was the reason they split from the Ori.. Who's to sy they were content with what THEY built.

Im alittle suprised they didnt replace the shuttles this episode somehow. I guess they really are SOL for space travel now apart from space suits and things they can dock with. That kinda changes the tone of the series.

Well, we saw the top of the seeder ship pretty well, and nothing even remotely coming close to a shuttle.

probably as the seeder ship was never supposed to have a crew, there was no point in equipping it with shuttles. Thus they did not find any they could take.

But I was wondering if the seeder ship was only made to build stargates or if it could build other things (like a shuttle) if you change the production 'order'.

From seeing it's internals, i am thinking locked on gate construction.

Everybody knows what's going on, except Rush and Dunning, who were stunned before the power flow from Destiny to Seeder ship supposedly started.
One of O'Neill's famous lines is 'What's going on?' when he comes to from a stunned state.
So, the most logical thing would be for Rush to ask 'What's going on?' before running off. All we see is him running off. There were no radio chatter to give any indication of the current situation.
So, the most interesting question is, how did Rush know?
He just decided to run to the bridge to figure out? He wanted to keep the bridge a secret.
His actions don't add up.
He acted as if he knew what was going on even though he was stunned the whole time.
I would think that he knew because he is the one who set the power flow from Destiny to Seed ship in motion.

I can't find another rational explanation.
What do you think?

Looking at how the visual seemed, it showed rush being 'drunkly walked'.. and had his eyes open.. to me he was somewhat already recouperating, but was still a lttle weak. Ergo there is nothing to say he didn't hear the radio chatter..

[Misfits]

We know he's awake by the time they reach the airlock. You can go on and on about what we don't know, but the fact is it doesn't prove anything one way or the other.

Based on what we have seen so far, Rush is awake, but looked groggy as he leaves the dock an staggers into Destiny. In the scene leading up to it, he's still unconscious and being dragged. We also know that Dunning was stunned before Rush, and he's being helped through the dock. We also know that the radio chatter for the time he awoke dealt with opening up a secondary conduit from Eli to Telford. The only audible speech thereafter is from Scott to fall back. That's it.
To theorize that Scott or Greer explained the situation to a groggy Rush in the brief moment before Rush emerged from the Dock is a far reach.
The most plausible explanation is that Rush already knew about the situation.

You're more than welcome to ignore anything that doesn't fit your views.

His dream is beside the point. Her question says everything. Reversing the power wouldn't save the crew, and she'd have called him on it like with the shuttle. Regardless of his motivations, Rush acted to save the ship.

A person's motive is everything. Rush believes the end justifies the means. He already said so.
If Rush's dream is to explore Destiny, how far would he go to make it happen.
He already dialed the 9th chevron address instead of evacuating the people from Icarus Base to a safe planet in Milky Way Galaxy.
In 'Darkness' he declared that this is an opportunity of a lifetime.
In 'Faith', he vehemently argued against leaving any crew on the planet, because more crew will be lost through attrition and they can't afford to lose so many people at once.

You could excuse a person once, even twice.
Instead, Rush is painting a picture where, not only he wants to stay on Destiny, he wants, needs a supporting crew.
He has already shown that he will frame Young to get what he wants.
In 'Human', the only episode where Rush was mostly candid, when Gloria asked 'You would rather die than fail?' he didn't deny.

If you view this Episode from this point of view, a lot of things make more sense.

You want to ignore this, go right ahead.

[Misfits]

Prob there is if that were the case how did we have the data on the gates up to and through into the new galaxy, where this ship was?

My point was that Destiny only keeps the summary and only keeps detailed data on a set of Galaxies before and after. Let's say 3 before and all the one's ahead to the saeeder ships.
If unlimited data retention would be feasible, you wouldn't need to apply FIFO, however, if you were designing this project, would you do it this way?, knowing that you're sending this ship in an unending Universe? I wouldn't.

Perhaps that is why the LA is so hot o the ship.. they had located a base that the destiny dialed for a brief few seconds for a 'data dump'... and noted it had all these galaxies it explored..

The dialing of gates in galaxies after Pegasus would only happen after the Ancients got to Destiny. It would need the info from Destiny to accomplish this.

Looking at how the visual seemed, it showed rush being 'drunkly walked'.. and had his eyes open.. to me he was somewhat already recouperating, but was still a lttle weak. Ergo there is nothing to say he didn't hear the radio chatter..

That's the point. From the time you see Greer drag Rush into a hallway just before the dock door, to when Rush walks out of the door, the only radio chatter is Eli telling Telford to set up a secondary conduit. Then the next radio chatter is Young telling Scott that Rush is needed in the control room.

In another words there's no way Rush would know the situation from radio chatter.

[LoneStar1836]

I just noticed this.

The power flow was set up from seeder to Destiny.
The Dialing from Destiny to Earth started.
Then the Power flow from Seeder ship to Destiny stopped.
Rush says, 'I'm not sure, but it appears that tapping this ship's energy reserves seems more problematical than we thought.'
Dunning is stunned.
Power flow starts to flow from Destiny to Seeder Ship.

(This is out of sequence. Granted I only have the transcript provided by GW to go by.)

Eli calls Rush, but no answer.
We see Rush on the ground, presumably stunned like Dunning.
REMEMBER THIS SPOT
The scenes continue.
Telford tries to do things, orders Scott and Greer to take Dunning and Rush back.
The only radio chatter from now on is how to reverse the current power flow.
Greer and Scott finally reach the dock to Destiny. Until now Dunning and Rush are still stunned.
First person to emerge is Rush, dazed and hurriedly running into Destiny.
REMEMBER THIS SPOT
At this point Young takes the radio from Eli and tells Scott that he wants Rush at the control room.
Rush has already disappeared, presumably on his way to the bridge.
Destiny un-docks from Seeder ship.

These are the sequence of events that I saw.
If you look, between the two spots I specified, Rush is stunned and unconscious, had to be dragged to Destiny by Greer.
After Rush emerges from the Seeder ship dock door, there is no mention of the current situation.
Everybody knows what's going on, except Rush and Dunning, who were stunned before the power flow from Destiny to Seeder ship supposedly started.
One of O'Neill's famous lines is 'What's going on?' when he comes to from a stunned state.
So, the most logical thing would be for Rush to ask 'What's going on?' before running off. All we see is him running off. There were no radio chatter to give any indication of the current situation.
So, the most interesting question is, how did Rush know?
He just decided to run to the bridge to figure out? He wanted to keep the bridge a secret.
His actions don't add up.
He acted as if he knew what was going on even though he was stunned the whole time.
I would think that he knew because he is the one who set the power flow from Destiny to Seed ship in motion.

I can't find another rational explanation.
What do you think?

WALLACE: We're going home.

(In the Gateroom, the Gate spins and then comes to a halt, but instead of the next chevron locking, the lights go out. Everyone turns to look at the consoles.)

WRAY: What happened?


BARNES: I don't know.

YOUNG (into radio): Eli?

(Eli and Lisa look up as the lights in the Control Interface Room flicker on and off.)

YOUNG (over radio): Eli?

WALLACE (into radio): The power transfer's been interrupted. Hang on.

WALLACE (into radio): Rush. Rush, what's happening?

RUSH: I'm not sure, but it appears that tapping this ship's energy reserves seems more problematical than we thought.

Rush stops the transfer

(As he lowers his radio, there's a sharp buzzing noise and a bolt of energy hits Dunning in the back. He drops like a stone.)

We then assume that Rush is the next to get stunned.

(In Destiny's Control Interface Room, Eli and Lisa look up anxiously as the lights fritz again. Similar fritzing goes on in the Gateroom.)

WALLACE: Oh-oh.

(He runs back to his own console.)

YOUNG (into radio): Eli, what the hell was that?

WALLACE (into radio): We've got a problem. The energy transfer's been reversed. Doctor Rush, did you hear that? The seed ship has begun drawing power away from Destiny. Doctor Rush!

(Doctor Rush is unconscious on the floor of the seed ship's Control Centre and at least two aliens are now working the consoles. Unaware of this but aware of Nick's silence, Eli radios the Gateroom.)

Only then are we told that the transfer has now reversed itself.

WALLACE: Colonel Young, we just lost contact with Rush.


YOUNG: (into radio) Dunning. Dunning, are you there?

YOUNG: David. I need you to go to the Control Room and find out why Rush isn't responding.

TELFORD: Already on our way. T.J., Marsden and the science team are headed back to Destiny with the alien.

YOUNG: Have you found any more?

TELFORD: Not yet.


Young hurries into the Control Interface Room.

YOUNG: Talk to me, Eli.

WALLACE: The seed ship's still drawing power away from Destiny. When the reserves are gone, there's no gettin' 'em back. Pretty soon we won't even be able to make an F.T.L. jump.

YOUNG: So we can't stop it?

PARK: We're trying, but nothing's working.

YOUNG: What if we disconnect from the seed ship?

WALLACE: Yeah, that would sever the power flow. Unfortunately, we have no idea how to do that.

YOUNG: We gotta learn. We gotta learn fast.


On the seed ship, Volker, Brody and T.J. are making their way through the narrow corridors towards the airlock. Behind them is the alien with Marsden bringing up the rear. Suddenly the alien drops to all fours and scrambles back the way they just came, scooting past Marsden before he can grab it. It hops up onto a pipe, looks over its shoulder and says something rude about Marsden's mother in alien before leaping upwards, hopping from wall to wall to avoid the shots that Marsden is now firing at it. It soon disappears from view. T.J. grabs her radio.

JOHANSEN: Colonel, this is T.J. We lost the alien.

YOUNG: Copy that.

(Telford and the boys hear the message and look all around them before progressing onwards. Reaching the Control Centre, they see Dunning and Rush on the floor unconscious, but the aliens have apparently left the room. Telford points to the downed men.)

TELFORD: Check them.

GREER: He's still breathing.

YOUNG (over radio): David.

TELFORD (into radio): We found Rush and Dunning. They're unconscious.

YOUNG: It doesn't look like we're gonna be able to stop the power transfer, so our only option is to sever the link between the two ships. We need you back here in order to disconnect.

TELFORD: Negative.

(Scott, still tending to Dunning, looks up at him in surprise.)

TELFORD (into radio): This is our one shot at getting home. There's gotta be a way to reverse the transfer.

YOUNG: Eli's tried and he's come up short. Listen to me, David. I want nothing more than to get everyone back home, but I'm not willing to risk anyone's life to do it.

TELFORD: Put Eli on.

(Unhappily, Young hands his radio to Eli.)

YOUNG: Go on.

WALLACE (into radio): Colonel?

TELFORD: Is there a way to reverse the transfer from my end?

(Eli hesitates for a long moment.)

TELFORD (sternly): Eli.

WALLACE: Theoretically, yeah, yeah, it's possible.

TELFORD: Tell me what to do.

WALLACE: Uh, you need to find anything that resembles a schematic ... or-or an active display, possibly indicative of the power transfer.

(Standing at one of the consoles, Telford looks across to the boys.)

TELFORD: Greer, Scott, get those two back to safety.

SCOTT: Sir, those aliens are probably responsible for what's happening. If they come back here, you will ...

TELFORD (interrupting): Go.

TELFORD: Go.

(As Matt turns away unwillingly, the console beeps. Telford activates his radio.)

TELFORD: All right, I got it.

(Behind him, Matt picks up Dunning under the arms and starts dragging him backwards out of the room. Greer does likewise with Rush.)

WALLACE: OK, now I'm gonna walk you through this.

TELFORD: Forget walking. Let's sprint. I've got a basic knowledge of Ancient systems.

WALLACE: OK, you need to access the ship's distribution network.

YOUNG: How're we doing for time?

(Lisa types and pulls up the holoscreen showing the ship's power levels.)

PARK: Once we hit red, we're at the point of no return. We have less than fifteen minutes.


AIRLOCK. T.J., Marsden and the science boys have arrived back at the airlock. The military personnel stand aside and let Volker and Brody out first. They hurry onto Destiny, passing a queue of additional marines who are lining up ready to go onboard the seed ship. As T.J. and Marsden step over the threshold onto Destiny, the airlock door slams shut behind them. Becker tries to turn the wheel again but it won't spin, and the light beside the door is now red. He presses the access button a couple of times but it beeps negatively at him. He shoves ineffectively at the door for another moment, then turns to T.J. and shakes his head.

BECKER: We're locked down.

(Deeper inside the seed ship, Scott and Greer are still shuffling backwards, dragging their unconscious colleagues behind them. Greer grunts breathlessly to Rush as he hauls him along.)

GREER: Wake up.

(As he pulls Nick through a bulkhead, the bulkhead door slams shut behind them. Greer stops and stares at it.)

GREER: What the hell?!

SCOTT: Forget it. Keep moving.

(Groaning with the effort, Greer starts to drag Rush along again.)

The last time we see that Rush is still out.


SEED SHIP CONTROL CENTRE. Telford is busily typing. His console beeps and he activates his radio.

TELFORD: Eli, I'm done. What's next?

WALLACE (over radio): Now you need to open a secondary conduit.

(Checking his watch, Telford goes over to another console and starts to work.)

(At the airlock Becker and Marsden are trying to force the door open.)

BECKER: It's not budging.

(He straightens up and steps back. Marsden looks around to T.J., who shakes her head. Just then the wheel in the door begins to spin. Everyone steps back and raises their weapons. The door opens and Nicholas, finally on his feet, steps through, closely followed by Greer. The others sigh with relief, lower their weapons and step forward to help as Scott, with Dunning's arm slung over his shoulder as he holds most of his weight, comes through.)

Rush is back on his feet but who knows what kind of conversations were still being broadcast over the radio between Telford and Eli as well as the exact amount of time between the last time we saw Rush unconscious and when he regained consciousness.

SCOTT: It's no use. We are cut off from the Control Room. Fall back.

(T.J. turns to the other soldiers.)

JOHANSEN: All right, guys, you heard the man. Let's fall back.

(Nick takes the lead and hurries off into Destiny.)


DESTINY CONTROL INTERFACE ROOM.

PARK: Less than six minutes.

YOUNG: Are we any closer to finding a way to disconnect from the seed ship?

(Lisa shakes her head.)

PARK: We need Rush.

(Young turns to Eli and holds his hand out.)

YOUNG: Eli.

(Eli hands over the radio and Young activates it.)

YOUNG: Lieutenant Scott, come in. We need Rush in the Control Room now.

(In the corridors, Scott, T.J. and the others look around at the junction they have just reached but there's no sign of Nick.)

SCOTT (calling out): Doctor Rush? (He lifts his radio and activates it.) He is gone, sir.

Eh, I agree that it's open to questioning that Rush took off like that if you really want to push the issue, but I agree with others who say he was probably lucid enough to hear the radio chatter...even if what was said wasn't exactly specific. But surely he could tell that they were in a panic. Plus it's quite possible that Scott said something to Rush when he regained consciousness. We are never shown the exact moment Rush comes to.