'Aftermath' (202) General Discussion

[LtColCarter]

Enjoyed the episode. It seems that SGU is really stepping up this season.

[SciFiRick]

For some reason no, Fraisers death didn't affect me.

It wasn't just Frasier's death, it is how it all came together in the end that made it emotional. You felt a since of pride and patriotism and that Saul didn't screw it up as all the personnel at the SGC thought he would do. All of the SGC members ate crow in the end and thought the work done was exceptional. It was all in how the 2-parter ended that brings out any deep emotions.

[PG15]

You're fine for not liking Rush, but you're going to have to find better reasons. For one, it's not clear Gloria is his conscience. The very fact that Franklin showed up, shows that something more is going on.

Also, it wasn't entirely Rush's fault for what happened to Riley. Yes, he stopped the ship so that they could take a shuttle to the planet, but Young gave the orders to, and they needed supplies. It's all well and good to say it was a bad choice after the fact, but you didn't know early on (unless you kept in touch with spoilers). Faced with dwindling supplies and a planet that has vegetation, you'd make the same call. I'd be willing to bet that if Rush was truthful and open about finding the bridge and the planet, Young would have ordered a stop and shuttle trip.

But wasn't the problem the turbulence in the atmosphere? Rush and only Rush knew about it and he made the decision (despite Franklin's advice) to let the shuttle keep going instead of making them turn around, and that's what caused the crash.

If given all the info - there's a planet with vegetation, but its atmosphere was very turbulent - I think Young or anyone else may have made a different decision. May.

[hedwig]

For some reason no, Fraisers death didn't affect me.

Probably because we only saw the reaction of Janet's friends and colleagues and Bregman and the film guys; we only saw Janet get hit with the staff blast, and then all those reactions. With Riley, we had to watch while he was dying, and with TJ there talking to him, and then seeing Young with him and what Young did. Big difference in how those two deaths were played out.

[KEK]

Janet's death was brutal I though. It felt really real, if that makes sense. The documentary style it was shot and then played back in the episode might have something to do with it, not to mention the horrible noise she made when she was hit.

[TheLastSunset]

I don't understand - Everett suffocated Riley? You can't suffocate someone that quickly in reality, unless I'm missing something. Why didn't Tamara or people attempt to remove him from the crashed shuttle once they had a gate open with some supplies from Destiny? Or at least administer pain blocking drugs for him. I don't get why he died as well, he wasn't bleeding since she said the pressure on him was stopping it. So he wasn't bleeding to death, was it internal injuries? I thought he just got his legs pinned or something? In which, realistically, you wouldn't die very fast from that. Another thing - why does Young hold his breath as he's 'suffocating' Riley? Was Park lying in the shuttle because she wanted to be with Riley? If so, why was she hiding away from everyone else? Why didn't she help unbury the stargate?

[Eternal Density]

Oh please. Nothing is original. You could decry every aspect of every show on those grounds.

Don't give people ideas!

[bansidhewail]

I don't understand - Everett suffocated Riley? You can't suffocate someone that quickly in reality, unless I'm missing something.

Whenever I watch a scene where a character is deprived of air (Jack having to swim through the submerged sections of Atlantis in S3 for example), I wind up holding my breath as I watch, I guess out of sympathy for the characters. And the scene with Riley being smothered went on so long I was desperate to take in air. I would imagine that after being in intense pain and bleeding for hours (the pressure prevented him from bleeding out quickly, not from bleeding out at all), and with the lack of breath enforced from outside so that you couldn't suddenly draw in a breath, that would totally have been long enough to kill a person.

That's part of what made the scene so heavy and brutal to watch; it didn't gloss over what happened, it made you experience it with Young the whole time.

[meo3000]

General Information: the SGU gate has a solid heavy base with a ramp. It has too or the gate would just roll away when dialed, not very practical, dont you think? So the gate will always be upright unless a natural disaster happens and it gets toppled or burried, in that case the gate is unaccessible in Destinys console, like it was in this episode.

[LoneStar1836]

Another solid episode as it moves things along. Can't say I loved it though because I felt that killing Riley was forced.

Loved:

-Rush finding the bridge.
- TJ/Riley scene.

Liked:

- Rush not telling anyone what he's doing. I don't necessarily think that it's the right thing, but that's part of why I enjoy watching the Rush character. He's kinda like Baltar on BSG (heh, especially now that he is talking to what may or may not be imaginary characters. At this point I'm gonna guess they are real and not figments with Franklin's appearance.), though Baltar was far more entertaining.

- Most of the LA being offloaded. It was the logical thing to do given the circumstances. Plus you knew they were going to be dumped somewhere at some point. Which is why I don't fault Rush for stopping Destiny at this planet. Seemingly the only reason Destiny didn't stop on its own was because the gate was buried.


Problematic:

- Why did the shuttle loose power? Because of something with the planet's atmosphere or because it was an old piece of junk? The turbulence didn't seem that bad. So I think it is debatable. If it's junk, then who's to say it wouldn't have fallen out of the sky the next time they used it.

- The gate not wanting to connect with a couple of rocks in the way. Really? Even if these are like older tech gates. Is this supposed to be explained away because the whole gate spins? Which makes no sense either, imo, as I've always believed that the gate being dialed to should always just activate...not spin or light up one at a time the individual chevrons being dialed. Gate canon has never been consistent.

Or did I just interpret that wrong as they had some weird cutting going on there (I'm guessing for time.) with Destiny dialing in and then Eli and them walking through the gate seemingly implying that they had to dial Destiny after clearing out the gate more.

Lucky for them it wasn't encased in basalt because of the volcanic nature of the planet. And I guess the comments about will or won't the gate blow with some C-4 is supposed to again illustrate wrong people, wrong place as I'd think it would be fairly common knowledge that gates can withstand something as powerful as naquada enhanced bombs. You'd think Daniel would have mentioned something like this on those vids in Eli's case. Not sure why Scott would have thought it might go boom. Guess he was in the broom closet the day they covered that in training at the SGC.

- Killing Riley. I don't know. The manner in which they did just felt too forced. I thought they should have put more effort into trying to free him, especially once they got the gate operational and could get some more equipment and people in there to help. They could have even used the stones to get a doctor to come assess him. We keep being told that TJ is just a medic, well then use the stones to get someone more knowledgeable in there before declaring him a lost cause.

It just bothers me that they didn't try harder to free him and then see if he lived or died. Reminds me of real life events in the book Black Hawk Down. One of the shot down choppers had the nose crush in on one of the pilot's legs trapping his body. Both pilots had died on impact but the rescuing soldiers stayed there for hours, under fire, to recover his body from the wreckage. These guys went to great lengths for a body, yet on SGU they just gave up way too quick on Riley, imo. Would he have died anyway? Probably, but at least they could have tried.

I think killing Riley was more to facilitate Young's descent. Storywise I like the emotional hell they are putting Young through as long as I get some pay off. I don't find much to blame Rush for other than the convenient fact that he discovered some critical info about the planet only after the shuttle had already been launched, but who knows if that would have stopped them from going anyway considering how desperate the situation was getting.

Though what a horrible way to kill Riley...very personal for Young, more so than shooting him, but poor Riley. LF certainly played it well with holding his breath until it was over...even though it should take a fair amount of time to suffocate someone to death. I give them props for it being an emotional scene even though at the same time I was thinking 'wtf, that's how you're going to kill him' as I thought they should have still been trying to at least free him. I think the least (and most humane) thing they could have done was give him an over dose of that alien venom (unless they were out of it) rather than let him lay there and suffer since they had obviously given up on freeing him. I think they could have covered a couple of more things, like this, in dialogue than they did.


Anyway, I still thought the ep was good.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I don't understand - Everett suffocated Riley? You can't suffocate someone that quickly in reality, unless I'm missing something. Why didn't Tamara or people attempt to remove him from the crashed shuttle once they had a gate open with some supplies from Destiny? Or at least administer pain blocking drugs for him. I don't get why he died as well, he wasn't bleeding since she said the pressure on him was stopping it. So he wasn't bleeding to death, was it internal injuries? I thought he just got his legs pinned or something? In which, realistically, you wouldn't die very fast from that.

While I’m no expert on how long it takes to suffocate someone to death, it certainly seemed like an uncomfortably long time to me. Further they to fit everything in the ep, some things have to be speeded up.

As for Riley he was bleeding badly, that’s why when TJ stuck her hands under the wreckage round Riley’s legs they were covered in blood. TJ simply believed that the pressure of the wreckage was stemming some of the blood flow, but Riley was still bleeding. He also appeared to be suffering from a spinal injury, since he couldn’t feel his legs. Riley was bleeding to death for the whole ep, the wreckage simply applied enough pressure to prevent him bleeding out in minutes. Trying to move him would have simply killed him quicker. And in case you haven’t noticed they aren’t exactly flush with medical supplies, so there aren’t any pain meds to administer.

[prion]

Well, Riley was toast as soon as he got buried under rubble. The folks on Destiny do not have the capability (aka Goa’uld sarcaphogus or crash trauma team, etc.) to put him back together. I’m willing to get he would have died within 24 hours, if not sooner, as he would have gone into renal/multiple organ failure/fatal cardiac arrhythmias from crush syndrome (which occurred too much during the Haiti quakes). As for his lack of pain, patients suffering from crush syndrome can experience paresthesia — or numbness — that can actually mask their true level of pain.

As for Young suffocating Riley (eeuuuu,. sorry, but yes, it was a mercy killing and one that would not have been apparent unless TJ checked for pinpoint hemorrhages in eyes, oh dear, have watched too much CSI) it’s creepy it’s a much searched-for topic on the net, but it all depends on how long the person can hold t heir breath, which they are going to do as it’s automatic. First they’d have to go unconscious (up to 3 minutes) and death would occur within 6 minutes, but since we’re pressed for time on TV, it was condensed.

I thought it was a good episode, but very bleak, and why they kept Robert Knepper’s character out of the batch is beyond me. Isn’t he a bad apple??

[PG15]

General Information: the SGU gate has a solid heavy base with a ramp. It has too or the gate would just roll away when dialed,

That...is a hilarious mental image.

[SciFiRick]

That...is a hilarious mental image.

I agree. I can just see it rolling down the field.

[PG15]

And SG teams chasing after it.

"Wait! Come back! We want to go through you!"