'Water' (106) General Discussion

[Commander Zelix]

I didn't think it was a "boring" episode of the show per say, but still it's plodding along really slowly. I'm still waiting for something big to happen.

Is it really not possible for a show to have strong plot AND character development?

Lets hope. Its fun to watch a show with strong characters reacting to strong interesting events (plot). Strong characters living great adventures. Not just falling down a hole stuff.

[MattSilver 3k]

Boring...

Unable to construct a real criticism...

[PG15]

*Hurt expression* Hey, I do my best, you know!!

Oops! Sorry, that was more of a turn of phrase.

Rest assured, your transcripts are Awesome!

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The earlier discussion regarding Chloe being useless and not really trying to actually do anything has me intrigued. I think that may be planned, or if it isn't, I think it's pretty realistic.

It's self-pity/loathing.

I think it's realistic simply because I participate in it on a regular basis. When I realize that I've become useless, or that I'm in trouble, rather than being proactive, I'd just start going over how horribly unlucky I am over and over again. It's not pretty.

I understand if some don't want to watch this on a TV show; for those who are proactive, they may think it's pathetic, and it is. However, believe me when I say that this is very realistic, especially for someone who may be sheltered from the real world. The thing is, though Chloe knows that she's useless, there's no immediate impetus for her to be anything else. If James hasn't informed her of Scott's troubles, she'd stayed in her room and angst some more, and nothing would've changed; why should she change? They don't need her and she's getting on fine doing whatever it is that she does (i.e. Scott. Sorry, that was too easy ).

If I were to guess, she'll soon have an "awakening" episode, where something finally makes her realize that it's time to women-up, as it were, and she'll start her path out of the depth of depression and into UsefulnessVille.

I think this applies to Scott as well. His womanizing hasn't really done too much damage recently, and thus he's complacent about it. A bit of sexytiems with Chloe with the radio off? Sure, why not; what could happen? So far, nothing. Scott probably don't know why he should change his ways.

Again, I think he'll soon get a dose of reality with this stuff. So far, he's been pretty inconsiderate with James, and his emotional bond with Chloe may only be strong on her part. I'm not sure. However, I don't seem to have a problem with this like the others here, probably because I know how Awesome Brian J. Smith is, and I'm intrigued as to where he goes.

MAJOR SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

This is why I'm looking forward to Earth and Life. The former has the infamous "Chloe realizes that her friends never liked her" scene, why may help her reach rock bottom, from which she can start climbing. Similarily, Life has Scott meeting his kid, as that girl he knocked up back when he was 16 didn't get the abortion (God, I wish I didn't know all this stuff). I'm hoping that this is the turning point in his character, and that he'll have a lot to think about in terms of what a relationship with a girl really means.

Regardless of what happens, I think by the end of this season, both characters would have developed quite a bit - however, I don't expect them to be their ideal selves either, as Season 2 would be pretty boring if that were the case.

[David Webb]

Unable to construct a real criticism...

I can, however, construct additional pylons.

[Easter Lily]

Spencer (is that his name, the weasley Marine? He is a Marine, is he not?) is an odd sort of character, isn't he? For a military man, he's somewhat... for want of a better word... craven. How on earth did he get through the battery of psych tests to be in the position that he's in? I can understand a civilian acting in that sort of fashion and may even expect him/her to do so but he seems to be pulling one silly stunt after another. I don't know much about marine types, I dare say and perhaps I've been given the wrong impression by 7 years of watching NCIS.

I'm not a fan of Scott and Chloe. Definitely not my idea of young love's dream and worse still, Scott apparently, the only remotely religious person in the entire show and he's written as an easy prey to willing women. A character flaw perhaps but I'm more inclined towards bad writing. As a soldier, he's okay -- adequate, with the right amount of machismo but as someone who still clings onto the vestiges of his religious upbringing, there's not a lot of internal tension. He's too one dimensional for my liking and his religious side is more or less tacked on in a feeble attempt to give him some colour.
I'm not convinced that people who write for television often understand people of faith all that well. I just want to see Scott struggle a lot more with his moral decisions and gain more insight into what makes him act the way he does. Right now he's flat as a pancake.
That said, I don't actually find Scott and Chloe unlikeable... the problem with them right now is that they're not real characters... just perfunctory dramatic elements... sort of like moving sets in a scenery to give the story some variety in the background but not much else.

I didn't mind the way the plot was structured in this episode. Two parallel crises and an assortment of individuals trying to make things happen. The attempt at team work was interesting and did yield some important interaction between a range of characters. It didn't, however, evoke as much of an emotional response as the previous episode did.

[Shanthaia]

I found the episode not overly thrilling plotwise - but the dialogs were pretty well done - I had a few giggles and was well entertained the whole 40 somewhat minutes it lasted

I think they are doing a fine job including humour in the episodes - they kind of failed doing that with a lot of atlantis episodes (my oppinion - humour is a subjective thing, I know )

Also I found the kino platform pretty funny and areally good idea

The visual making of the episode was stunning like with all episodes in SGU so far - the ice planet + sky coming out was beautifully done as well as the bugs, destiny and so on...

The only think not impressing me much was the frozen water fall, it did not look much like the frozen water falls I know (there are pleanty of those in my area during winter) - I mean it kind of looked like one, but something was off, can't pinpoint exactly what, it just looked off to me - it was maybe the colouring, not looking transparent enough.

Also if they are not careful, the "there is the thing we need right in front of the stargate but [insert property] does not quite fit - lets go and look further away" thing is going to get old pretty fast. Twice in 6 episodes is almost too much - when he pulled the checking device (amzing how they have all the sensors they happen to need all the time ready... ), I could already tell the outcome

But all in all it was quite entertainign, eventough it missed a real climax of action - the tension was kept over the entire epsiode

EDIT: oh yes, and I forgot to mention that I have trouble getting my head around that this cloud of bugs (not much larger than a human being) drank 40000 liters of water...that is a bit much, even for an alien reproducing organism...

[Yoshi442]

Boring...

Maybe for those with short attention spans. I read Mallozzi's rant on his blog, and he basically said that they're done with the wrap everything up in 45 minutes format. I personally like that.

[Arga]

Maybe for those with short attention spans. I read Mallozzi's rant on his blog, and he basically said that they're done with the wrap everything up in 45 minutes format. I personally like that.

I don't think that being bored is due to the fact that the story is not wrapped in 45 min.

After reading many comments from both pro & con SGU, it seems that people who are bored just don't enjoy the lack of exciting events that they wished would happen, related to the ship, alien encounters, planet discovery (and oher sci-fi stuff); the lack of real thriller that hold the viewers in their seat and wonder what will happen next; but instead, it's a lot of talk about themselves, non interesting love life matters.... There are more elements of soap opera than an action sci-fi series, that people were used to. And the pro-SGU usually reply that it's a serialized series, so everything can't be over in 45 min.. But the non episodic nature of the show has nothing to due to its perceived boreness. There are other good tv shows which have long story arcs, and are not as boring to watch. The answer is in the way the show is written, with too much drama (small d) instead of big Drama (capital D).

Of course, it's obvious that I'm in the group of the disappointed; because my tastes lean more towards the science fiction genre, and I was so much hoping for more discoveries about the whole stargate universe, and not so much characters relationships. It's hard for me to recommend this show to other people, because a lot of it just embarrasses me... But that's my taste, that's my disappointment. There's nothing I can do but watch, because it's "Stargate" and I think Robert Carlyle is extraordinary; hopefully things will get more interesting.

The episode "Water" was giving me hope. I think it's due to this alien entity; not knowing its exact intentions were thrilling. And the hard decision making ("should we leave them on the planet", vs the "no one is left behind" that they kept repeating a million times in SG1) was good & refreshing. (even if in the end it turned out ok for the "heroes")..
I liked TJ character development, because we saw her develop it in the middle of the action, not in front of a stupid kino.
(I hate Big Brother kind of shows).

[Erox]

the new wormhole is kinda purple
i like it

[Alder]

Only had time to read the first couple and last couple of pages in the thread, so sorry if I repeat anything.

I'm feeling...I think 'frustrated' is the word, perhaps, with this show. I want to like it...I do, a bit...but it's like a piece of music where I'm waiting for the hook, and it never comes. (I *hate* that!) I keep seeing snatches of brilliance, and then they seem to be sandwiched together with segments that are just beige.

There's definitely stuff I like:
Rush and TJ both got some good bits in this episode. I liked that TJ was willing to turn to Rush and ask for help. (Not that he gave much, but still). It was the sensible, and mature thing to do, hope we see more behaviour like that. Oh, and talking about sensible and mature, James's interaction with Chloe was also the action of an adult, she certainly didn't need to tell Chloe what was going on, but it was kind, and an interesting slant on the character. The sand alien was cool. Reminded me a bit of Michael Crichton's Prey, though it was none the worse for that. I liked the outside shots of the ship - I think I could love the ship, if we only knew/saw a wee bit more of it...

On the other hand:
1) I'm getting tired of the crew's attitude to Rush. Maybe it's just me, but at times he seems to be the only grownup on the show - and that includes Young. Rush seems willing to make the hard choices, and say the things that have to be said - I can understand everyone's horror in the first couple of episodes, but surely by now they should start to realise that their situation is dire and even usually dreadful stuff needs to be considered. Like Rush suggesting to Young that he might have to leave Scott behind. This wasn't evil or stupid, just pragmatic.
2) I don't get why the both Young and Scott went to the planet. That left the ship with only the third-in-command, which seemed careless to me. Particularly as Young was pretty seriously injured just a couple of episodes ago. Did he have particular skills that were needed for this? It's possible I missed his extra experience using environmental suits.
3) Scott himself needs...something. Colour? Something to have him stand out as the 'hero'. So far he seems to be your go-to guy if you need sex, or someone to nearly die on a planet. Greer is already appearing more reliable (despite his hair-trigger temper). In fact he just might be our dark horse.

Hum...there were other good/bad bits, but I can't think of anything else at the moment. I may be back...

[Callie]

And did I see a plot hole toward the end? I need to go back and re-watch it but ... if I remember right, didn't the Destiny jump into FTL almost immediately after Young and Scott got back?

I don't think that's how it happened. Admittedly, the next scene after their arrival was of Destiny jumping, but I got the impression that that happened some time later, not immediately afterwards.

[leanbarton]

So it was sort of a small part of the episode, but the man who was attacked by the alien bug things, was unsettling and amazing at the same time.

I'd say one of the more real death sequences I've seen in a while. I was wrapped up in what was happening to him.

[IcarusAbides]

I think his name was Gorman. It was a good scene.

[hedwig]

Only had time to read the first couple and last couple of pages in the thread, so sorry if I repeat anything.

I'm feeling...I think 'frustrated' is the word, perhaps, with this show. I want to like it...I do, a bit...but it's like a piece of music where I'm waiting for the hook, and it never comes. (I *hate* that!) I keep seeing snatches of brilliance, and then they seem to be sandwiched together with segments that are just beige.

There's definitely stuff I like:
Rush and TJ both got some good bits in this episode. I liked that TJ was willing to turn to Rush and ask for help. (Not that he gave much, but still). It was the sensible, and mature thing to do, hope we see more behaviour like that. Oh, and talking about sensible and mature, James's interaction with Chloe was also the action of an adult, she certainly didn't need to tell Chloe what was going on, but it was kind, and an interesting slant on the character. The sand alien was cool. Reminded me a bit of Michael Crichton's Prey, though it was none the worse for that. I liked the outside shots of the ship - I think I could love the ship, if we only knew/saw a wee bit more of it...

On the other hand:
1) I'm getting tired of the crew's attitude to Rush. Maybe it's just me, but at times he seems to be the only grownup on the show - and that includes Young. Rush seems willing to make the hard choices, and say the things that have to be said - I can understand everyone's horror in the first couple of episodes, but surely by now they should start to realise that their situation is dire and even usually dreadful stuff needs to be considered. Like Rush suggesting to Young that he might have to leave Scott behind. This wasn't evil or stupid, just pragmatic.
2) I don't get why the both Young and Scott went to the planet. That left the ship with only the third-in-command, which seemed careless to me. Particularly as Young was pretty seriously injured just a couple of episodes ago. Did he have particular skills that were needed for this? It's possible I missed his extra experience using environmental suits.
3) Scott himself needs...something. Colour? Something to have him stand out as the 'hero'. So far he seems to be your go-to guy if you need sex, or someone to nearly die on a planet. Greer is already appearing more reliable (despite his hair-trigger temper). In fact he just might be our dark horse.

Hum...there were other good/bad bits, but I can't think of anything else at the moment. I may be back...

About the only reason I could see for Young to have gone on the mission is this thing he has about doing the heroic thing himself instead of delegating them to somebody else. Scott made comments during the mission on his apparent willingness to sacrifice himself or commit suicide several times since their stranding. Other than that, he apparently has had some experience with mountain climbing or rock climbing or walking around on ice - evidenced by his own comments and Scott's questioning him about his experience about such things. Other than that, he really should not have gone on that mission. His injuries could not have healed so quickly that he would be able to pull Scott out of that pit. Plus, it seems that either heavy exertion or something highly emotional will throw him into a seizure of some kind (he had a seizure during the first scene with his wife, and immediately after being thrown through the Icarus gate). And I was half expecting him to have a seizure while trying to pull Scott out of that pit.

[Sp!der]

well... i loved the space suits! but thats about it the episode! kinda rehash of air part 3, only being instead on a sand planet, they are on an ice planet, how creative. come on you can do better than that, tptb. I have to say so far my favorite charactes are;
1. Greer
2. Eli
3. Rush
4. Young

and i love them four equally, the rest i dont care about, oh i hate Scott, seriously i cannot stand his guy! hope next time will be better!