'Time' (108) General Discussion

[amconway]

Oh of course, you hate it so it must be bad so lets cancel it People are still watching this show because some of us actually like it. Unlike SGA which I thought ended up being rather quite terrible and I'm glad they decided to cancel it now for this promising new show.

So, you know you just did the same thing right there, right? Root for the cancellation of something that other people enjoy based on your personal likes and dislikes? How is that different from what the other poster said?

[Linda06]

So, you know you just did the same thing right there, right? Root for the cancellation of something that other people enjoy based on your personal likes and dislikes? How is that different from what the other poster said?

I was trying to make a point. I thought S5 of SGA was atrociously terrible but I didn't shout for it to be cancelled. Heck at the time of the announcement I was very pissed that it was cancelled. But it's been cancelled for months now and I was just saying now that I'm glad it was, but I wasn't rooting for it to be cancelled when it was still on the air like this person is doing with SGU.

[amconway]

I was trying to make a point. I thought S5 of SGA was atrociously terrible but I didn't shout for it to be cancelled. Heck at the time of the announcement I was very pissed that it was cancelled. But it's been cancelled for months now and I was just saying now that I'm glad it was, but I wasn't rooting for it to be cancelled when it was still on the air like this person is doing with SGU.

Ah, I get the difference now. One is finding a positive way to view it, the other is hoping for other people's disappointment. Got it.

[Arga]

A thought I had;
I feel this episode was thrown in order to keep certain viewers interested in SGU. The fans of Stargate who were ready to give up SGU because of its soapish style. It gave some brief hope that some adventures were possible in SGU. And afterwards, TPTB can continue showing episodes back to the style they intended, until the next more exciting episode to maintain again the viewers, who were ready to give up again... and so on...

[Rakhal]

Very late but this is my guess at timetravel mechanics in the SG universe.

When an item (or person) goes back in time a new timeline is created, forking from the original timeline at the point that the timetraveling item arrives. At that moment the original timeline is 'copied' to form the new timeline and the timetravelling item is added to the new timeline.

To get 2 kinos found by timeline 3 we need to assume that Scott's kino was sent back less far in time than Rush+the first kino.

Then initially we have timeline 1 with 1 kino in it. This kino is used to record the first mission. It is then sent back in time to (say) AD 1900
When it arrives in 1900 timeline 1 is copied to make timeline 2 and the timetravelling kino is added to timeline 2.
In 1900, after the fork, timeline 1 has 1 kino (on the Destiny waiting to be discovered) and timeine 2 has 2 kinos (1 on the Destiny and 1 lying on the ground by the stargate on the planet)
Timeline 2 progresses to 2009 and the kino on the planet is discovered. Events ensue and Scott's kino (the one that was on the Destiny in timeline 2 just after the fork) is sent back to 1950 (say)
In 1950 timeline 2 is copied to make timeline 3 and Scott's kino is added to timeline 3.
Now just after the fork, in timeline 1 we still have 1 kino (on the destiny). Timeline 1 was unaffected by this fork
Timeline 2 still has 2 kinos, the kino from timeline 1 on the planet still (it's been there for 50 years at this point) and the one still on the destiny.
Timeline 3 has 3 kinos. The kino from timeline 1 it inherited due to it being copied from timeline 2 by the fork (along with everything else in that timeline), the one on the destiny and Scott's kino, the one sent from timeline 2.
After all these events, in 2010 we have
Timeline 1: No kinos, the 1 kino it did have was sent back to timeline 2 in 2009
Timeline 2: 1 kino (the kino sent from timeline 1 is still there, but it sent back it's Destiny kino to timeline 3 in 2009
Timeline 3: 3 kinos (the one that arrived from timeline 1 in 1900, the one that arrived from timeline 2 in 1950 and it's own kino.
4 kinos in total. We started with 1. One was created when timeline 2 was created (the 'Destiny' kino was copied), and two were created when timeline 3 was created (the Destiny kino and the kino originally from timeline 1).

And another post everyone can ignore
--Rakhal

[Arga]

I agree with everything but when you say "copied", I don't get it.
It sounds like the copied timeline contains the future events from the first timeline. but for me it's not conveivable because at the forking point, the second timeline follow its own events (that may change due to the arrival of a foreign element from the future).
Unless you mean by "copied" that it's the past that is copied.
Then I would say that there is no need for the past to be copied, because it would be common for timeline 1 and timeline 2. Those 2 timelines are branches originating from the same common ancestor timeline...

[Rakhal]

Yes, by 'copied' I suppose it's more like 'inherited'. Timeline 2 starts off with everything that was in timeline 1 at the moment of the fork. Hence a cat that existed before the fork would , just after the fork, be on both the new timelines for instance. Which is why I said copied, since before the fork there was only one cat, after the fork there are 2, one on each of the timelines. These 2 versions of the cat would be completely independant from that moment on of course.

--Rakhal

[Saquist]

That is why I found the episode thoroughly confusing....

[Linda06]

That is why I found the episode thoroughly confusing....

I always find AU's, time travel confusing cause I think about it too much.....Well that and I'm easily confused So it's rather quite weird that I actually like AU eps Go figure

[shade45]

Only thing I'm confused about after this episode is which theory of time travel and multiverses are the writers sticking with. Based on previous episodes (and the Continuum movie), there is only one timeline that gets altered anytime someone goes into the past and changes things (like when people started dissapearing in Continuum [which is unrealistic, because memories of them would have dissapeared instantly too]).

But in this episode they seem to be following the more plausible theory of multiple alternate universes or timelines that get created and branched off from a reality once someone travels back in time.

I guess I don't really have a problem with that since this is a new show and is different enough from the previous show to be seen as a whole seperate new show, so as long as they stick to that theory I'll be fine with that.

[Jper]

Only thing I'm confused about after this episode is which theory of time travel and multiverses are the writers sticking with. Based on previous episodes (and the Continuum movie), there is only one timeline that gets altered anytime someone goes into the past and changes things (like when people started dissapearing in Continuum [which is unrealistic, because memories of them would have dissapeared instantly too]).

But in this episode they seem to be following the more plausible theory of multiple alternate universes or timelines that get created and branched off from a reality once someone travels back in time.

I guess I don't really have a problem with that since this is a new show and is different enough from the previous show to be seen as a whole seperate new show, so as long as they stick to that theory I'll be fine with that.

I don't see how previous episodes and the Continuum movie are different in (portraying/creating/existence of) alternative universes than SGU... I think it was pretty consistent and though-out.

[Jper]

Very late but this is my guess at timetravel mechanics in the SG universe.

When an item (or person) goes back in time a new timeline is created, forking from the original timeline at the point that the timetraveling item arrives. At that moment the original timeline is 'copied' to form the new timeline and the timetravelling item is added to the new timeline.

To get 2 kinos found by timeline 3 we need to assume that Scott's kino was sent back less far in time than Rush+the first kino.

Then initially we have timeline 1 with 1 kino in it. This kino is used to record the first mission. It is then sent back in time to (say) AD 1900
When it arrives in 1900 timeline 1 is copied to make timeline 2 and the timetravelling kino is added to timeline 2.
In 1900, after the fork, timeline 1 has 1 kino (on the Destiny waiting to be discovered) and timeine 2 has 2 kinos (1 on the Destiny and 1 lying on the ground by the stargate on the planet)
Timeline 2 progresses to 2009 and the kino on the planet is discovered. Events ensue and Scott's kino (the one that was on the Destiny in timeline 2 just after the fork) is sent back to 1950 (say)
In 1950 timeline 2 is copied to make timeline 3 and Scott's kino is added to timeline 3.
Now just after the fork, in timeline 1 we still have 1 kino (on the destiny). Timeline 1 was unaffected by this fork
Timeline 2 still has 2 kinos, the kino from timeline 1 on the planet still (it's been there for 50 years at this point) and the one still on the destiny.
Timeline 3 has 3 kinos. The kino from timeline 1 it inherited due to it being copied from timeline 2 by the fork (along with everything else in that timeline), the one on the destiny and Scott's kino, the one sent from timeline 2.
After all these events, in 2010 we have
Timeline 1: No kinos, the 1 kino it did have was sent back to timeline 2 in 2009
Timeline 2: 1 kino (the kino sent from timeline 1 is still there, but it sent back it's Destiny kino to timeline 3 in 2009
Timeline 3: 3 kinos (the one that arrived from timeline 1 in 1900, the one that arrived from timeline 2 in 1950 and it's own kino.
4 kinos in total. We started with 1. One was created when timeline 2 was created (the 'Destiny' kino was copied), and two were created when timeline 3 was created (the Destiny kino and the kino originally from timeline 1).

And another post everyone can ignore
--Rakhal

Well, I made this yesterday during a very boring lecture:
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6981/img007dt.jpg

That's your theory right?
Well, I would add this is also possible:
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1034/img008dp.jpg

You see how here it doesn't matter if the second Kino, Scott's recording arrives before or after the first Kino. It just all depends on when the timelines split, and thus so if the introduction of a Kino in 1900 or 1950 is significant enough to split out the timelines, as to create a fork, for the events happening in 2009...

Also, the question remains if there are multiple timelines or if the others just cease to exist... It depends on the laws that control this time-travel, multi-universe theories... Because if it was theoretically possible to travel through time without changing anything then you would probably end up in the same time-line again, however, that seems highly unlikely, so then every-time a new time-line would come into existence. However, how this works or is controlled actually, I would say we don't know.

[Arga]

Only thing I'm confused about after this episode is which theory of time travel and multiverses are the writers sticking with. Based on previous episodes (and the Continuum movie), there is only one timeline that gets altered anytime someone goes into the past and changes things (like when people started dissapearing in Continuum [which is unrealistic, because memories of them would have dissapeared instantly too]).

But in this episode they seem to be following the more plausible theory of multiple alternate universes or timelines that get created and branched off from a reality once someone travels back in time.

I guess I don't really have a problem with that since this is a new show and is different enough from the previous show to be seen as a whole seperate new show, so as long as they stick to that theory I'll be fine with that.

I was thinking: and why not have the 2 theories co-existing ?
(imagine that time travel is true, and everything...)
Could there be 2 types of phenomenom? depending on how you achieve time travelling.
If the trip to the past is made through a stargate wormhole with a solar flare, it produces a multi-timeline; if it's done by another technology, (a DeLorean, Tardis, for exemple), the timeline stays the same but future events are changed..
I'm not sure of one or the other hypothesis, but since it's sci-fi, we're free to imagine there could be 2 possible time travel mechanics.

[JoseP927]

I was thinking: and why not have the 2 theories co-existing ?
(imagine that time travel is true, and everything...)
Could there be 2 types of phenomenom? depending on how you achieve time travelling.
If the trip to the past is made through a stargate wormhole with a solar flare, it produces a multi-timeline; if it's done by another technology, (a DeLorean, Tardis, for exemple), the timeline stays the same but future events are changed..
I'm not sure of one or the other hypothesis, but since it's sci-fi, we're free to imagine there could be 2 possible time travel mechanics.

I have a problem grasping the concept of multiple timelines. For example, is there a threshold of how significant the interactions with the past must be to create an alternate timeline? If, for example, you just travel to the past and return, would occupying space in the past cause a branch in the timeline? If so, that would mean that anyone who travels into the past could never return to their original timeline; they would live the rest of their life in an alternate universe.

[Jper]

I have a problem grasping the concept of multiple timelines. For example, is there a threshold of how significant the interactions with the past must be to create an alternate timeline? If, for example, you just travel to the past and return, would occupying space in the past cause a branch in the timeline? If so, that would mean that anyone who travels into the past could never return to their original timeline; they would live the rest of their life in an alternate universe.

Well you've seen the Alternative-Universes-Mirror in SG1... No? Think about it like that...