So Perry ..not McKay or Carter .

[blackluster]

I was glad about Perry's involvement, both in terms of what we were able to learn about Rush through her and simply how she defines Earth's scientific capability in Stargate Universe. As far as her status goes compared with Carter and Mckay, it seems easy for me to rationalize. For instance, as smart as Carter is, she by no means represents the pinnacle of Earth's intellectual powers. I remember an old ep we she traveled to an airforce base to recruit an officer who displayed mathematical aptitude far in excess of Carter's. It would frankly be strange if there weren't already several people on earth who have surpassed Carter and Mckay in terms of understanding specific systems or concepts. The two of them certainly aren't sitting somewhere reverse engineering the host of tech that earth had captured over the years, so the revealing of one expert so far is timeous.

[natyanayaki]

So? Age and physical ability has very little to do with either's mental acuity, which was the point I making.

Yeah, needing someone to turn pages in textbooks, or a voice-to-text interface to use a computer would make things more complicated, but it has no bearing on how intelligent or driven she is. She doesn't need her hands to be able to understand the physics behind her work, just as Hawking doesn't need his.

It has nothing to do with mental acumen, agreed, but age is related to the amount individuals tend to learn at a certain point. Assuming she was in regular public school until her accident, her knowledge of physics would be minimal, as opposed to someone who at least had motor skill into his adult years. It works in both ways for Perry, on the one hand, needing help would have made it harder to "change a page" etc etc, but it might have made her more driven. I don't know, as I said, I think it exceptionally interesting given her age, and I think the fact that she was much younger (and I believe it was an accident, thus more "sudden) changes things up a bit. So while similar to Hawking in some ways, the situations are different.

[JustAnotherVoice]

It has nothing to do with mental acumen, agreed, but age is related to the amount individuals tend to learn at a certain point. Assuming she was in regular public school until her accident, her knowledge of physics would be minimal, as opposed to someone who at least had motor skill into his adult years. It works in both ways for Perry, on the one hand, needing help would have made it harder to "change a page" etc etc, but it might have made her more driven. I don't know, as I said, I think it exceptionally interesting given her age, and I think the fact that she was much younger (and I believe it was an accident, thus more "sudden) changes things up a bit. So while similar to Hawking in some ways, the situations are different.

The situations aren't nearly as different as you try to make it out to be, but there are too many unknown variables in your line of argument to make this a fair comparison. Her character was probably based on Hawking, but too many details are left out for the argument that I think you're trying to make. For all we know, she went to a school for gifted children, was natrually prodigious in math based disciplines and had grandma Mabel drive her to and from church every sunday.

Theoretical physics is more of a math exercise than a practical one; some of the greatest scientific discoveries were made from simple observation; etc etc etc. All I was stating initially, was that being physically handicapped has nothing to do with her intellectual capacity, nor does being unable to touch a working engine mean she couldn't help design one, which was what Astrofighter was implying.

[Petra]

I was glad about Perry's involvement, both in terms of what we were able to learn about Rush through her and simply how she defines Earth's scientific capability in Stargate Universe. As far as her status goes compared with Carter and Mckay, it seems easy for me to rationalize. For instance, as smart as Carter is, she by no means represents the pinnacle of Earth's intellectual powers. I remember an old ep we she traveled to an airforce base to recruit an officer who displayed mathematical aptitude far in excess of Carter's. It would frankly be strange if there weren't already several people on earth who have surpassed Carter and Mckay in terms of understanding specific systems or concepts. The two of them certainly aren't sitting somewhere reverse engineering the host of tech that earth had captured over the years, so the revealing of one expert so far is timeous.

Just to get our facts straight: there was never any episode like the one you described. Ever. Perhaps you confused SG-1 with some other show?

The closest thing to the bolded on SG-1 was Prodigy in season 4, when Carter was asked to give a lecture at the AF Academy and one of the students, Jennifer Hailey, caught her eye. She introduced Hailey into the program, but only because the girl was about to be expelled for bad behaviour - caused, as it turned out, by her frustration that she *couldn't* top Sam in anything. The episode ended on a note that Jennifer may be able to become second Sam Carter one day, if she works hard enough. But she certainly *didn't* "display mathematical aptitude far in excess of Carter's.".

And the fact is, in SG-1 universe Sam *was* "the pinnacle of Earth's intellectual powers", as you put it. You may not like it, you may find it unbelievable, but it's a fact.

As a Carter fan, SG-1 fan and SGU fan I had no problem with Perry being in this ep - on the contrary, I liked it. But I wish people would stop putting down SG-1 characters - or even fabricate their own history - just to show how "superior" SGU and its characters are. It's totally unnecessary. You can love both of them, you know.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

...
As a Carter fan, SG-1 fan and SGU fan I had no problem with Perry being in this ep - on the contrary, I liked it. But I wish people would stop putting down SG-1 characters - or even fabricate their own history - just to show how "superior" SGU and its characters are. It's totally unnecessary. You can love both of them, you know.

FWIW, I've never put down Carter; I just don't believe she fits in SGU.

[Petra]

FWIW, I've never put down Carter; I just don't believe she fits in SGU.

And obviously I meant people who did, not all SGU fans.

And I agree with you about her not fitting in, if she was to be portrayed like on SG-1. Although I suspect that the writers would change her a little, like they changed Jack, if she was ever to make an appearance. Having said that, I liked her cameo in "Air" but I wouldn't want to see her in SGU in a bigger role either.

Sorry if I sound cranky. I had a rough day, am tired and sick of *some* people having a go at Sam just because.

[pipi]

Petra,

If you love Sam, do you watch Santuary too?

[natyanayaki]

The situations aren't nearly as different as you try to make it out to be, but there are too many unknown variables in your line of argument to make this a fair comparison. Her character was probably based on Hawking, but too many details are left out for the argument that I think you're trying to make. For all we know, she went to a school for gifted children, was natrually prodigious in math based disciplines and had grandma Mabel drive her to and from church every sunday.

Theoretical physics is more of a math exercise than a practical one; some of the greatest scientific discoveries were made from simple observation; etc etc etc. All I was stating initially, was that being physically handicapped has nothing to do with her intellectual capacity, nor does being unable to touch a working engine mean she couldn't help design one, which was what Astrofighter was implying.

BUT THAT WAS MY POINT AS WELL. I know that she's probably based off Hawking - but that doesn't mean that their life-stories are identical- there could easily be variations. I know there are a lot of variables, that's why I found the character interesting. There are so many possibilities with this character, and that was my point, it's exactly why I'd like to see her again. In fact, I'm more interested in her, than many of the show's regulars. I'm not commenting on her intellectual prowess, just that I'd be interested in finding out more about the character because she is fascinating. That was my point.

[blackluster]

Just to get our facts straight: there was never any episode like the one you described. Ever. Perhaps you confused SG-1 with some other show?

The closest thing to the bolded on SG-1 was Prodigy in season 4, when Carter was asked to give a lecture at the AF Academy and one of the students, Jennifer Hailey, caught her eye. She introduced Hailey into the program, but only because the girl was about to be expelled for bad behaviour - caused, as it turned out, by her frustration that she *couldn't* top Sam in anything. The episode ended on a note that Jennifer may be able to become second Sam Carter one day, if she works hard enough. But she certainly *didn't* "display mathematical aptitude far in excess of Carter's.".

I stand corrected, though I do believe in her discussions with Carter she did show aptitude that would certainly exceed Carter's and she didn't seem to be a student of a great many years.

And the fact is, in SG-1 universe Sam *was* "the pinnacle of Earth's intellectual powers", as you put it. You may not like it, you may find it unbelievable, but it's a fact.

I doubt it, considering the nature of intellectual minds in humans and how they tend to manifest. Carter seems like the best because she is the only one with clearance to look at some of the things she was looking at. The point being that with the expansion of the Stargate program, that would certainly have lead to the inclusion of highly adept minds, immediate examples in canon would be Mckay himself (from his earliest introduction), Rush and probably quite significantly, Eli, someone who managed to crack a problem of years in a couple of months in an alien language he hadn't even seen before.

As a Carter fan, SG-1 fan and SGU fan I had no problem with Perry being in this ep - on the contrary, I liked it. But I wish people would stop putting down SG-1 characters - or even fabricate their own history - just to show how "superior" SGU and its characters are. It's totally unnecessary. You can love both of them, you know

Nothing in my original post was to put down a fandom. I don't see the point in hyping characters either. So I don't see why anyone would regard Carter as the smartest person on the planet even in SG1 times, since considering what the modern academic community is, it simply doesn't make sense.

[Gollumpus]

I am so glad it was not McKay. Carter would have been fine, but you have to realize that neither of those characters would have added anything interesting to the story.

It would have been the easy solution to just bring McKay and Carter on board from the start and have them fix the ship in a few hours, as per the previous Stargate standards were any impossible problem could be fixed by those two.

New show, new plot, new atmosphere - let it grow and develop its own characters.

This. 'Nuff said.

regards,
G.

[Petra]

Petra,

If you love Sam, do you watch Santuary too?

What does it have to do with anything? AFAIK there's no Sam Carter in Sanctuary, is there?

I'm weird in that I'm a fan of characters, not actors (ok, with an exception for RDA ).

I stand corrected, though I do believe in her discussions with Carter she did show aptitude that would certainly exceed Carter's and she didn't seem to be a student of a great many years.

Oh, she certainly was a smart cookie, I'm not disputing that. Whether she was indeed smarter than Carter..let's just say it's up for a debate, and since this is not a place to have one, I'm willing to agree to disagree.

I doubt it, considering the nature of intellectual minds in humans and how they tend to manifest. Carter seems like the best because she is the only one with clearance to look at some of the things she was looking at. The point being that with the expansion of the Stargate program, that would certainly have lead to the inclusion of highly adept minds, immediate examples in canon would be Mckay himself (from his earliest introduction), Rush and probably quite significantly, Eli, someone who managed to crack a problem of years in a couple of months in an alien language he hadn't even seen before.

Nothing in my original post was to put down a fandom. I don't see the point in hyping characters either. So I don't see why anyone would regard Carter as the smartest person on the planet even in SG1 times, since considering what the modern academic community is, it simply doesn't make sense.

You know what, I think we are looking at the situation from different perspectives. You look at it realistically, sort of like SGU. I look at it as it was established in SG-1 - great show, but one that due to its subgenre and its limitations had to often take shortcuts and make its characters unrealistically smart (not just Sam either; just look at Daniel). And in SG-1 perspective Sam was the smartest scientist on Earth; even when Dr Markov and Mckay were introduced, Sam was still the one who came up with the correct solutions. Was it realistic? No, but it was that way nevertheless.

Oh, and I'm not trying to hype Sam, she doesn't need it

[latvian_stargatefan]

And I agree with you about her not fitting in, if she was to be portrayed like on SG-1. Although I suspect that the writers would change her a little, like they changed Jack, if she was ever to make an appearance. Having said that, I liked her cameo in "Air" but I wouldn't want to see her in SGU in a bigger role either.

I guess TPTB have decided to put her in one place for SGU, she is the commander of the "Hammond'' and that's all. After all, she's an Air Force Colonel and maybe for the sake of realism the writers decided that scientific genius + Air Force Colonel commanding a ship doesn't quite fit in one person in SGU realistic universe... Maybe there's some episode when she has to show that she knows the ships engines and stuff too but I doubt she'll be portrayed as scientific genius in SGU- whether we like it or not.

Though McKay is a complex and interesting characer + he is only a scientist so he fits in and sooner or later he'll visit Destiny as a science guy. But Malozzi said that in season 1 he couldn't be available because of Atlantis movie (whether it gets made or not)

[blackluster]

For original cast entering Destiny as experts I'd far rather see Daniel, since I think it would be nice to have insight into the past (which Destiny represents) from the perspective of an archaeologist instead of a classical scientist. It would be the chance to explore something about the Ancients that has been lacking in the SG storytelling to date, that being Ancient society. I'm hoping that Destiny hails from a time where Ancient society/mindset was a bit closer to ours and as such, having it explained through the Daniel character would be more interesting than fixing the hax tech of the day.

[pipi]

What does it have to do with anything? AFAIK there's no Sam Carter in Sanctuary, is there?

I'm weird in that I'm a fan of characters, not actors (ok, with an exception for RDA )

Just making sure you're not one of those stalker weirdos that find a Sam Carter poster in their bedroom hot.

[EllieVee]

As a Carter fan, SG-1 fan and SGU fan I had no problem with Perry being in this ep - on the contrary, I liked it. But I wish people would stop putting down SG-1 characters - or even fabricate their own history - just to show how "superior" SGU and its characters are. It's totally unnecessary. You can love both of them, you know.

Question for you: what if someone has never liked a particular character on SG-1 or SGA? I have never liked Carter, not from Children of the Gods, not ever. Am I not allowed to say so now because I am an SGU fan?