'Sabotage' (116) General Discussion

[SG7]

In regards to the episode in general, I think Kathleen Munroe did an amazing job as Amanda Perry. Incredibly likable, and her quirks were awesome. Make her a recurring guest star!

I second that!

[wurlitzer153]

I don't watch those. If it's not shown in the show then as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist for me because I don't know what's being said on those kinosode whatevers on the internet.

You should find a way to watch them, as they are officially released as canon (Written by the producers, filmed with the same crew...). Links are in the 'Kino' thread in the SGU Gen forum. Although they are not necessary for understanding the show, they sometimes add a little extra information. Plus, many of them have great humor.

[EllieVee]

You should find a way to watch them, as they are officially released as canon (Written by the producers, filmed with the same crew...). Links are in the 'Kino' thread in the SGU Gen forum. Although they are not necessary for understanding the show, they sometimes add a little extra information. Plus, many of them have great humor.

Some have described SGU as humorless but I have found it very funny at times, I suppose because it's more dry and ironic than laff-a-minute.

[killez]

My thoughts on Franklin is he either is now one with the ship or he ascended, Hopefully they will tell us what really happened.

[fmbchris]

I liked this episode

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I liked this episode

Because...

[reddevil18]

Because...

Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to do and die.

[Petra]

Perry from the show was much better than Perry from the sides. Yes, obvious rewrites and it’s not the first time that’s happened (SG1 fans may remember when Jonas Quinn was basically given Daniel Jackson’s background; that did not sit well with fans).

Except Jonas Quinn was never given Daniel's background. That was also purely speculation and overreaction on certain fans' part.

And since I'm on the subject of SG-1, what's up with all this outcry that Carter isn't a specialist in hyperdrives? Jelgate was correct, she is. I know that looking down on SG-1 is in a good tone around here and many people weren't Carter's fans to begin with, but suddenly denying that she was a pioneer of hyperdrive technology is a little low, isn't it? Sam was said to be helping to design, working on and testing hyperdrives in Redemption, Prometheus, Memento; treated as the best specialist on them in Grace, New Order and many other episodes (no transcripts 'cos GW doesn't have them). Now, I know why she wasn't in the ep and I wouldn't even want her to be, but 1 line of explanation that Carter couldn't come because...(doing the same for McKay would be a nice nod to the SGA fans, although I have no idea what his area of expertise is) would suffice. SGU has been doing a great job of being realistically set in Stargate universe and omission of Carter in this ep was a bit jarring for me and unexpected, as she was the first person I thought about when they said they needed a hyperdrive specialist.

Anyway, onto the ep itself.

I liked it, although I thought it was the second weakest (after Human) ep of the back half so far.

Firstly, I feel cheated at how easy Eli, Chloe and Scott's return was. I avoid spoilers like a plague and after the amazing race to catch up to Destiny in Lost and jaw-dropping ending I was expecting a longer period of being stranded, maybe even some multi-episode arch? I know that the way itheir return was handled makes perfect sense, but it was so anti-climactic and low-key that I couldn't help but feel disappointment.

Secondly, I wish the writers dared to open that particular can of worms and had Mandy and Rush have sex. SGU is really good at posing interesting moral questions with no easy answers and IMO the writers lost a perfect opportunity here. So yeah, I'm disappointed.
I admit though that given the timing of Rush recently reliving Gloria's death and tenderness and sweetness Mandy and Rush's relationship was portrayed with, the way things played out was more realistic and touching.

Scott and Chloe are back together...meh.

And now the good stuff:

Pretty much everything else. I loved Eli in this one and laughed out loud at his bewilderment that anybody can find Rush sexy (I agree with him btw ).

Loved that Brody took the time to make booze and that people were so eager to try it.

Greer rocks as usual, shame he didn't have more screentime. His hug with Scott was a nice - if a bit unexpected - touch. Bromance lives, huh?

Apparently I'm in the very small minority, but I really liked Wray and Sharon's part of the story. Camille is such a cold, calculating and antipathetic person on the ship that I need to be reminded every once in a while that she's this warm, loving person in her private life. And her relationship with Sharon is definitely the most solid and reliable out of all relationships shown in the series, so it's nice to watch too. Finally, Ming-Na did a great job with her acting and having a quadriplegic as your main guest character was a bold move on the writers' part, and I commend them for it.

James and Franklin subplot was unexpected, but very touching and well done too.

I loved how Young's apathy was shown, and his scene with TJ.

And finally, this is the first episode when I can honestly say that I liked Rush in. He was so open, tender and enthusiastic that it was a true pleasure to watch. I hope to see Mandy again, just because she seems to be the only one able to bring out this side of "Nick".

[Blackhole]

Except Jonas Quinn was never given Daniel's background. That was also purely speculation and overreaction on certain fans' part.

And since I'm on the subject of SG-1, what's up with all this outcry that Carter isn't a specialist in hyperdrives? Jelgate was correct, she is. I know that looking down on SG-1 is in a good tone around here and many people weren't Carter's fans to begin with, but suddenly denying that she was a pioneer of hyperdrive technology is a little low, isn't it? Sam was said to be helping to design, working on and testing hyperdrives in Redemption, Prometheus, Memento; treated as the best specialist on them in Grace, New Order and many other episodes (no transcripts 'cos GW doesn't have them). Now, I know why she wasn't in the ep and I wouldn't even want her to be, but 1 line of explanation that Carter couldn't come because...(doing the same for McKay would be a nice nod to the SGA fans, although I have no idea what his area of expertise is) would suffice. SGU has been doing a great job of being realistically set in Stargate universe and omission of Carter in this ep was a bit jarring for me and unexpected, as she was the first person I thought about when they said they needed a hyperdrive specialist.

Anyway, onto the ep itself.

I liked it, although I thought it was the second weakest (after Human) ep of the back half so far.

Firstly, I feel cheated at how easy Eli, Chloe and Scott's return was. I avoid spoilers like a plague and after the amazing race to catch up to Destiny in Lost and jaw-dropping ending I was expecting a longer period of being stranded, maybe even some multi-episode arch? I know that the way itheir return was handled makes perfect sense, but it was so anti-climactic and low-key that I couldn't help but feel disappointment.

Secondly, I wish the writers dared to open that particular can of worms and had Mandy and Rush have sex. SGU is really good at posing interesting moral questions with no easy answers and IMO the writers lost a perfect opportunity here. So yeah, I'm disappointed.
I admit though that given the timing of Rush recently reliving Gloria's death and tenderness and sweetness Mandy and Rush's relationship was portrayed with, the way things played out was more realistic and touching.

Scott and Chloe are back together...meh.

And now the good stuff:

Pretty much everything else. I loved Eli in this one and laughed out loud at his bewilderment that anybody can find Rush sexy (I agree with him btw ).

Loved that Brody took the time to make booze and that people were so eager to try it.

Greer rocks as usual, shame he didn't have more screentime. His hug with Scott was a nice - if a bit unexpected - touch. Bromance lives, huh?

Apparently I'm in the very small minority, but I really liked Wray and Sharon's part of the story. Camille is such a cold, calculating and antipathetic person on the ship that I need to be reminded every once in a while that she's this warm, loving person in her private life. And her relationship with Sharon is definitely the most solid and reliable out of all relationships shown in the series, so it's nice to watch too. Finally, Ming-Na did a great job with her acting and having a quadriplegic as your main guest character was a bold move on the writers' part, and I commend them for it.

James and Franklin subplot was unexpected, but very touching and well done too.

I loved how Young's apathy was shown, and his scene with TJ.

And finally, this is the first episode when I can honestly say that I liked Rush in. He was so open, tender and enthusiastic that it was a true pleasure to watch. I hope to see Mandy again, just because she seems to be the only one able to bring out this side of "Nick".

Good Analysis

I agree “I feel cheated at how easy Eli, Chloe and Scott's return was.”

Sex with Rush and Mandy would have been too complicated

Eli’s bewilderment was enjoyable.

Brody’s still was a nice personal touch to all their lives.

Mandy’s quadriplegia and Wray and Sharon time together was excellent drama.

James and Franklin’s subplot was touching and really humanized her character quite a bit.

I also found this to be the first episode I liked Rush in as well.

I didn’t think Young was apathetic towards TJ at all. He was shocked by the news. She waited and hid her pregnancy from him for over 20+ weeks and then dumped the information on him at the worst possible moment in the middle of a crisis. How did she expect him to react? I realize the revelation was done this way for dramatic effect and the pregnancy storyline was introduced in the show because of the real life pregnancy of the actress. Maybe this is a male female thing. From my male perspective I would wonder how did she get pregnant? I have never had sex with a woman without making sure beforehand that birth control was in place and that if she got pregnant she fully intended and agreed to have an abortion. If the women indicated that she would want to keep the child I wouldn’t have sex with her - period. I couldn’t imagine while married, having sex with a women under my command (a huge no no!) without discussing these issues in advance, especially the abortion discussion. Maybe there are a lot of couples out there that have sex at the spur of the moment and take their chances; but I admit, I would expect that occurrence with adolescents and not with intelligent adult professionals. I would never roll around with someone unless it was clear beforehand that there was never going to be a baby. I realize that accidents can and do happen but realistically if birth control is used properly it is rare. Usually an unexpected pregnancy when birth control has always been used consistently and correctly imo, means the women lied and got pregnant deliberately, either to force the guy to marry her or to get financial support. This belief may be considered by some to be politically incorrect or sexist but imo it also usually happens to be true.

[garhkal]

For most things the direction of the wormhole is one way. In that you can only travel from Destiny to that planet. People from that planet can't go to Destinty on that dial. That holds true for weapons fire as well
.

In several of the earlier SG1 eps (spirits comes to mind) we have enemy fire coming through an out bound gate (well iirc). As well as with some of the other ones where we gated to Jaffa stronholds.
Though i do remember shots coming through from an inbound one as well (early S1 where SG1 was leading a team of civies through and wanted it open a little longer.

this has been explained, in Kinosode 23, and also, in this specific episode where people had to stand up and volunteer to be in Amanda's body, given the circumstances. There is full consent given, so no exploitation is present.

All i saw there with Young and the soldiers standing there, was him explaining what her physical/mental conditions were. NOTHING about that your body here might be used by the mind inhabiting it for sex..

I'm pretty sure Carter has a PhD in astrophysics and I certainly would consider her more than just a "field operative". She and McKay were both very adept at troubleshooting under less than optimal circumstances. I would bet Amanda has very little field experience and something that works well in the lab doesn't always translate to the field. Amanda was the right choice if for no other reason than Rush trusted her abilities. If I recall correctly, he indicated he had a number of people in mind but considered her the best.

I think what the diff with Mccay/carter and Perry is that both of the former are good with all techs, while Perry is just a hyperdrive person. I know i would rather have someone who is nothing but a hyperdrive tech (which to me would make them MORE knowledgeable) than someone who is well rounded.

very first thing they would do is make sure a hundred other people were made aware of every single thing in her head

Unless they copied her mind and downloaded that into others, i Can't see them being able to do that. And who is to say if they DID that it would not also make the peopel into carter's.. I mean it does copy their mind, memories and emotions and all that jass.. so why not their personality as well.

Well, the stone thing was explained in the kinosode thingy. So, yeah, basically, it's understood that sex is one of the things that might occur. In fact, it's expected.

Which to me is a cop out, as i cannot see people willingly agreeing to that. especially if they don't know who their body is going to be having sex with..

I don't watch those. If it's not shown in the show then as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist for me because I don't know what's being said on those kinosode whatevers on the internet.

I can agree to that. Not everyone even knows where they are to watch, or has the capacity. Here in Okinawa, some sites just won't load 'streaming' content cause of the foreign IP (such as CBS/NBC and hulu), so why can't other countries have that issue..

[GDKAnderson]

I'm just happy my babies (Matt and Chole) are back together.

[Eestlanna]

From my male perspective I would wonder how did she get pregnant?

I believe they were using protection and it failed. Maybe beforehand she was sure she would do the abortion if needed, but getting really pregnant changed her mind. It happens and no woman can really tell how she would take it before she really gets there. Having another person suddenly living in you is pretty weird thing.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

...
I didn’t think Young was apathetic towards TJ at all. He was shocked by the news. She waited and hid her pregnancy from him for over 20+ weeks and then dumped the information on him at the worst possible moment in the middle of a crisis. How did she expect him to react? I realize the revelation was done this way for dramatic effect and the pregnancy storyline was introduced in the show because of the real life pregnancy of the actress. Maybe this is male female thing. From my male perspective I would wonder how did she get pregnant? I have never had sex with a woman without making sure beforehand that birth control was in place and that if she got pregnant she fully intended and agreed to have an abortion. If the women indicated that she would want to keep the child I wouldn’t have sex with her - period. I couldn’t imagine while married, having sex with a women under my command ( a huge no no!) without discussing these issues in advance, especially the abortion discussion. Maybe there are a lot of couples out there that have sex at the spur of the moment and take their chances; but I admit, I would expect that occurrence with adolescents and not with intelligent adult professionals. I would never roll around with someone unless it was clear that there was never going to be a baby. I realize that accidents can and do happen but realistically if birth control is used properly it is rare. Usually an unexpected pregnancy when birth control has always been used consistently and correctly imo, means the women lied and got pregnant deliberately, either to force the guy to marry her or to get financial support. This belief may be considered by some to be politically incorrect or sexist but imo it also usually happens to be true.

Not so much towards TJ as in apathy regarding the ones he's lost. (I think he may also be feeling a little lost with the whole situation though, don't blame him there).

As for the how, I think that was quickly hinted at when he asked her how far along she was - so he's doing the math in his head. As for precautions, I think that we've seen so far that Young is often ruled by his emotions and so it may have been spur of the moment. I commend you on your planning - that level of foresight and forethought isn't as common as you'd think, so good for you for thinking and planning. As for the character of Young though, initial planning doesn't appear to have factored in? I think it's a little soon to assume that TJ lied and got pregnant on purpose. I don't think this was easy on her or why would she have been stepping down from her post as the story begins? *Usaually*? No, I don't think it *usually* happens to be true, although I'm sure that there are some people out there that must do that. I would venture a guess that, because you have made a point of stating how careful you would be, that you have projected that same care and attention to others around you. Therefore, when people slip up, as people often do, you may be assuming that someone has done so on purpose? I don't know you though, so please forgive me if it's incorrect, but it's a valid guess

[jeffsumm]

I think it is clear that franklin ascended. Which most likely means that ship wasn't designed to be without a crew. The ancients must have ascended and left it behind.

The question is did ancients help him, is the knowledge needed for ascension in the ship, or did the ancients figure out a away for technology to aid ascension. The cold temp could have something to do with it.

I agree, ascension has to be the reason for his disappearance. Remember, he got alot more information pounded into him than Rush did because of the buffer. Maybe it took all this time for Franklin's mind to process it. Which leads to this--did you notice how they didn't have the computers and the buffer and all that stuff hooked up to the chair this time, yet Franklin just sat in it and took control, like he knew exactly what he was doing? Very interesting.

[Tuvok]

I agree, ascension has to be the reason for his disappearance. Remember, he got alot more information pounded into him than Rush did because of the buffer. Maybe it took all this time for Franklin's mind to process it. Which leads to this--did you notice how they didn't have the computers and the buffer and all that stuff hooked up to the chair this time, yet Franklin just sat in it and took control, like he knew exactly what he was doing? Very interesting.

Hmmmm...

I want to believe he ascended but lack the data to proof it. So I have to disgree.

Will be miffed however to find out the Ship burned him up as processing power...