"Sabotage" (116) Pre-Airing Discussion/Speculation Thread

[PG15]

Just one thing wrong with your statement: the quadriplegic DOESN'T get on board Destiny AS a quad. She's in Camile's body. If they wanted a quad on board, then Eleanor would have been a part of the cast originally. IMHO, the whole thing is simply to have the only gay character, a lesbian, have sex with men. They won't *deal* with it any more than they've dealt with any real moral issues on their two previous shows, unfortunately. History is a great teacher and leopards rarely change their spots.

History is also not infallible.

And what is this crap about having the lesbian have sex with men? That makes no sense whatsoever. The character of Wray is in another body.

I'm not sure what you think we're getting out of this. With Wray's mind somewhere else, and Wray's body occupied by a straight female, we're basically getting hetero sex. Big deal?

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Why would there be a moral debate on a straight woman taking over a homosexual woman's body and using it to have sex with a man? This never happens in real life, so there's no point discussing it. Common sense tells you there'll be no moral debate. What do you think will happen? After the scene, everyone will sit down and debate it?

Anyway Brad Wright never said there'll a moral debate, it's pure assumption.

I don't know if anybody suggested they'll all sit around and talk about their feelings, but it was suggested (and highly likely) that it'll have some kind of repercussions/fallout.

It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper

[Dr Weir]

Wait a second...including a quadriplegic is a bad thing? Given that they have written episodes up to this point that would bar a quadriplegic being on the Destiny already, how else do you propose they bring her on?

Using a ramp (either attached to the ship or a stargate). I think there is supposed to be a stargate on the ship. They already used ramps on stargates to transport cargo and devices.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

History is also not infallible.

And what is this crap about having the lesbian have sex with men? That makes no sense whatsoever. The character of Wray is in another body.

I'm not sure what you think we're getting out of this. With Wray's mind somewhere else, and Wray's body occupied by a straight female, we're basically getting hetero sex. Big deal?

I think most of that comes from the afterellen.com article. The writer was confused about the "body-swapping" concept in the original article and follow-up.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Using a ramp (either attached to the ship or a stargate). I think there is supposed to be a stargate on the ship. They already used ramps on stargates to transport cargo and devices.

Just to clarify...

Spoiler:

the character in question wasn't originally part of the Icarus Base survivors who end up on the Destiny. She's not in any of the previous 15 episodes and when she turns up in Sabotage they use the body-swapping device to get her onto the Destiny

. I think that's what he's talking about. Not the literal accessability issues.

[PG15]

Yeah, they just posted another article:

http://www.afterellen.com/blog/sarah...to-controversy

^MAJOR Spoilers for more than just this episode!

So...there's a TV/movie trend of lesbians having sex with males? Why do I never catch these things?

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Yeah, they just posted another article:

http://www.afterellen.com/blog/sarah...to-controversy

^MAJOR Spoilers for more than just this episode!

So...there's a TV/movie trend of lesbians having sex with males? Why do I never catch these things?

No idea. She might mean lesbian actresses playing straight characters?

I definitely think the writer is confusing the actress with the character and doesn't fully understand the "body-swapping" concept when she's talking about SGU.

[katikatnik]

I'm not sure what you think we're getting out of this. With Wray's mind somewhere else, and Wray's body occupied by a straight female, we're basically getting hetero sex. Big deal?

Big deal? For what we know, Wray never had sex with a man that means that she could still be a virgin in the heterosexual sense. Does that mean that occupying a lesbian's body and making it possibly lose its virginity is no big deal? It's only assumption but a possible one considering Wray is lesbian, another thing that should be but won't be addressed.

This isn't all swoops, different souls equals different people bodies included. Wray will have to carry the consequences of Eleanor's doing, feeling the aftereffects of having sex with someone you would never ever sleep with included. And what of sexual diseases and a possible pregnancy? Just thinking of waking up realizing that someone had sex with my body knowing that if it was me I would never have slept with them turns my stomach.

Look at it from your point - you switch bodies with a gay man and return to your body finding out that the man went all the way with another man. And then tell me if it's no big deal. Pft, just a little gay sex for a straight man's body, no big deal

ETA: From the article above: "he told me sex between bodies (i.e. body swapping) is introduced early in the series, and is an ongoing moral dilemma on the show with serious moral consequences, and this event is no different." OMG, are they serious? So they'll basically what? Borrow someone else's body to get their rocks off on regular basis? So date-raping is now a "moral dilemma"? I think I will be sick.

[PG15]

Big deal? For what we know, Wray never had sex with a man that means that she could still be a virgin in the heterosexual sense. Does that mean that occupying a lesbian's body and making it possibly lose its virginity is no big deal? It's only assumption but a possible one considering Wray is lesbian, another thing that should be but won't be addressed.

That's not what my quote was responding to. The original poster said that it was TPTB's goal to have the lesbian have sex with men; I don't know why that is a goal at all; I don't understand why TPTB would want that or how that would get them more viewers.

But you raise a good point. Is this the attraction? That somehow the virginity of the lesbian is somehow attractive, and that's why it's apparently "cool" to have the lesbian have sex with men?

This is a very disturbing world I'm entering.

This isn't all swoops, different souls equals different people bodies included. Wray will have to carry the consequences of Eleanor's doing, feeling the aftereffects of having sex with someone you would never ever sleep with included. And what of sexual diseases and a possible pregnancy? Just thinking of waking up realizing that someone had sex with my body knowing that if it was me I would never have slept with them turns my stomach.

Look at it from your point - you switch bodies with a gay man and return to your body finding out that the man went all the way with another man. And then tell me if it's no big deal. Pft, just a little gay sex for a straight man's body, no big deal

Why do people keep thinking that TPTB or those of us not hating on this think that this is not a big deal? Of course it's a big deal! It's a huge violation of Wray's body and trust; we get that.

But we also get that this is television. Terrible things happen in order to create tension and drama, and sometimes those things are beyond terrible to the point of disturbing and disgusting. If you can't stomach it, then so be it. Then again, I can't stomach horror movies, but I won't stop them from being made or anything like that.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Big deal? For what we know, Wray never had sex with a man that means that she could still be a virgin in the heterosexual sense. Does that mean that occupying a lesbian's body and making it possibly lose its virginity is no big deal? It's only assumption but a possible one considering Wray is lesbian, another thing that should be but won't be addressed.

Well according to the article you quoted in the very same post--

ETA: From the article above: "he told me sex between bodies (i.e. body swapping) is introduced early in the series, and is an ongoing moral dilemma on the show with serious moral consequences, and this event is no different." OMG, are they serious? So they'll basically what? Borrow someone else's body to get their rocks off on regular basis? So date-raping is now a "moral dilemma"? I think I will be sick.

--it will be addressed.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Why do people keep thinking that TPTB or those of us not hating on this think that this is not a big deal? Of course it's a big deal! It's a huge violation of Wray's body and trust; we get that.

But we also get that this is television. Terrible things happen in order to create tension and drama, and sometimes those things are beyond terrible to the point of disturbing and disgusting. If you can't stomach it, then so be it. Then again, I can't stomach horror movies, but I won't stop them from being made or anything like that.

So we're back to the slightly less controversial tuna vs PB & J episode... Maybe they'll throw us a curve ball and bring up BLTs!

[katikatnik]

--it will be addressed.

It will be addressed as a "moral issue" with "moral consequences". Rape is not a "moral issue", rape is a crime! Be it rohypnol or body-swap, using the body of someone who never consented to sex is a crime and it should be regarded as crime, not some grey moral area. And it won't be used once, but repeatedly - at least twice, early on and then with Camille - despite it being a "moral dilemma"! This "moral dilemma" won't hinder them in doing it again and again. Not much of a dilemma then.

[PG15]

You know, I won't trust that quote word-for-word like that, since it's a paraphrase by the author of the article of what the studio representative said.

Suffice it to say, the whole bodyswapping thing and what you can do with it is indeed a moral issue. If you use it to have sex in the body of another person without their consent, then it becomes a crime.

[Promethius30]

Truth is truth, mean or not. And if you think there will really be a moral debate (that lasts longer than 3 minutes on screen) than you never watched the other two shows. And Mr. Wright is a big boy and I'm sure he can handle posts that do more than simply pat him on the back and tell him how wonderful he is.

Not sure you have noticed but this is a 3rd show which correct me if i am wrong is supposed to be different. Talk about jumping the gun

[Shan Bruce Lee]

It will be addressed as a "moral issue" with "moral consequences". Rape is not a "moral issue", rape is a crime! Be it rohypnol or body-swap, using the body of someone who never consented to sex is a crime and it should be regarded as crime, not some grey moral area. And it won't be used once, but repeatedly - at least twice, early on and then with Camille - despite it being a "moral dilemma"! This "moral dilemma" won't hinder them in doing it again and again. Not much of a dilemma then.

It's obvious you've already decided what's gonna happen and how the story-line will be resolved so it would be pointless to keep going.