Inside Greer's Mind

[Blackhole]

Completely agrees with you. Green for ya! An gun and a computer are valuable weapons if one knows how the use it. In the end he got a hold of himself long enough for Scott get him.

I agree that in the end he didn't hurt anyone.

[Blackhole]

While I acknowledge that this episode was, obviously, full of hallucinations that drove certain characters to extremes, it's also fairly obvious that there was more than a little truth to be found in the situations. The one I'm fascinated with is Greer. For me, he's the most controversial character, as he seems to make progress in one episode, only to blow it in the next.

It's obvious that Greer has reasons not to trust Rush or Wray. I disagree that it's because of the rebellion; that was the concrete proof, sure, but Greer truly did hate both of them from day one. I don't think he'd intentionally violate orders, not yet at least, to take steps to get rid of them. But he has openly approved of 'getting rid of' Rush before, and in this episode it showed that he was ready to kill two essentially defenseless people, one of whom was begging for her life. I'm not sure Greer in his right mind would do this. But, I'd love to hear some debate about this.

How far would he go? Would he, presented a perfect opportunity to murder both Wray and Rush and get away with it, go ahead and do it? To protect his leader and his crew, surely, but also for personal reasons?

I agree that of all the characters Greer may harbor more residual resentment of Rush and Wray for the reasons I listed in a prior post and because his role as protector requires him to take potential threats much more seriously.

The characters’ powerful experiences in Pain could take them one of two ways - their fears and resentments could worsen or hopefully instead, with their new heightened awareness they will be cathartic and will be purged.

In James' situation hopefully she will learn that she needs to either make a play for Scott or decide it is time to let go and move on. In Greer's case, he can realize he is still deeply distrustful of Rush and Wray and he needs to let go of some of it. I think Greer is an honorable man; whether in full control or not he nearly killed an injured unarmed innocent woman. The experience will be quite a wake up call and I would be very surprised if in some fashion he doesn’t try to make amends to her.

Imo given the positive and more cohesive direction the show seems to be taking the crew; I am going to vote for the hallucinations in Pain helping those afflicted to grow leading to improved relations for everyone on board. Although I realize having James trying to sabotage Scott and Chloe’s relationship does make for juicy drama. Maybe the writers will show Scott and James getting closer leading to something developing between Chloe and Eli? The major reason I am voting for improved relations is that the show could easily cross a line and become too soapy. Imo I don’t think its fan base would respond well if that happened. Personally, I wouldn’t like it. We will have to wait and see.

I want to add when I first watched the show it’s far more involved character drama was such a departure from the prior two Stargate incarnations that I, along with others felt it was becoming increasingly too soapy. After 17 episodes, either I have gotten use to it or it never has crossed the line. The tension and conflict between the characters has been enjoyable and hasn’t felt over the top.

[Lemontree]

I find it interesting that Greers greatest fear would be the civilians taking over the ship.

For my part, I don't like him at all. For me, he is one of those persons who join military to control and to release their violent urges in a controlled and widely accepted environment. Which, for me as a civilian is the creepiest thought of all - no matter how devoted he might be in general to protect "his" crew when it comes to outside threats.

This said, I just can conclude that this actually IS his greatest fear, as it would rob him of the environment that allows him to exist with all his shortcomings. Shortcomings that would make him an outcast in a civilian environment.

[Nataku27]

Imo , Pain just proved how Greer has the potential to be a ticking bomb for the crew in case of stress.

[Cory Holmes]

Imo , Pain just proved how Greer has the potential to be a ticking bomb for the crew in case of stress.

Not so much a ticking bomb as he is a leashed pitbull, with Young holding the leash. Greer's absolute, unshakable faith in Colonel Young has been demonstrated before and in Pain we got to see what would happen if that leash were ever let go. As long as Young is around and has a firm grasp, then Greer is just fine to be around civilized crewmembers; if not...

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Not so much a ticking bomb as he is a leashed pitbull, with Young holding the leash. Greer's absolute, unshakable faith in Colonel Young has been demonstrated before and in Pain we got to see what would happen if that leash were ever let go. As long as Young is around and has a firm grasp, then Greer is just fine to be around civilized crewmembers; if not...

well put
Young has his right-hand in Scott but he's definitely got his enforcer in Greer

[Blackhole]

Not so much a ticking bomb as he is a leashed pitbull, with Young holding the leash. Greer's absolute, unshakable faith in Colonel Young has been demonstrated before and in Pain we got to see what would happen if that leash were ever let go. As long as Young is around and has a firm grasp, then Greer is just fine to be around civilized crewmembers; if not...

I disagree. What has Greer done that has ever been that violent? Imo in every instance when Greer has been aggressive the provoking party more than had it coming. Please provide unjustified examples. In Pain he believed that Rush and Wray had incited another mutiny. Frankly if they had done so on the heels of their first one then he should have shot them both. He was hallucinating and wasn’t responsible. Among others, Rush was running around the ship because he thought the Blue Aliens had invaded and Lt. James thought she had killed Lt. Scott. Greer is solider and Imo I think he has performed his job admirably with the necessary force and restraint.

[Cory Holmes]

I disagree. What has Greer done that has ever been that violent? Imo in every instance when Greer has been aggressive the provoking party more than had it coming. Please provide unjustified examples. In Pain he believed that Rush and Wray had incited another mutiny. Frankly if they had done so on the heels of their first one then he should have shot them both. He was hallucinating and wasn’t responsible. Among others, Rush was running around the ship because he thought the Blue Aliens had invaded and Lt. James thought she had killed Lt. Scott. Greer is solider and Imo I think he has performed his job admirably with the necessary force and restraint.

That's my point; he hasn't been overly violent during his time on Destiny. But he did knock Telford flat on his ass on Icarus, he took threatening steps towards Wray when she questioned his status after their arrival on-ship, knocked Spencer flat on his ass (and KTFO'd him) during the shuttle lottery, and his actions during the mutiny are well-documented (but without any slo-mo beauty shots, sadly ).

It could be argued that those are examples of performing his duties as needed, and it would be an accurate argument. When Telford stoned in and temporarily took command of the ship, Greer obeyed his order to be confined to quarters; when Wray temporarily took command during her sham trial of Young, he followed her orders; when dealing with the sand bugs, he followed TJs orders despite totally disagreeing with them. These are all admirable traits of a seasoned NCO.

But in Pain, we saw what happened when Young wasn't holding his leash. The hallucinations gave Greer the greenlight to settle the Second Mutiny in his own ways, and look at the level of violence he was prepared to use to that end. During the sham trial, Greer was inciting the rest of the military component into storming the court room and putting Young back in his rightful place and not even Lt. Scott was able to talk him down; it took the Colonel himself to bring Greer to heel and calm him down.

Again, I bring the analogy of a leashed pitbull. He's nice and controlled, and cordial if not friendly to strangers telling him what to do. But if that leash is ever let go... Personally, I'd like to learn what exactly Colonel Young did to earn that unending, unshakeable loyalty from Greer. That alone is worth a few episodes, don't you think?

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

...
Again, I bring the analogy of a leashed pitbull. He's nice and controlled, and cordial if not friendly to strangers telling him what to do. But if that leash is ever let go... Personally, I'd like to learn what exactly Colonel Young did to earn that unending, unshakeable loyalty from Greer. That alone is worth a few episodes, don't you think?

yes, I'd love to learn that too...maybe next season?

[Blackhole]

That's my point; he hasn't been overly violent during his time on Destiny. But he did knock Telford flat on his ass on Icarus, he took threatening steps towards Wray when she questioned his status after their arrival on-ship, knocked Spencer flat on his ass (and KTFO'd him) during the shuttle lottery, and his actions during the mutiny are well-documented (but without any slo-mo beauty shots, sadly ).

It could be argued that those are examples of performing his duties as needed, and it would be an accurate argument. When Telford stoned in and temporarily took command of the ship, Greer obeyed his order to be confined to quarters; when Wray temporarily took command during her sham trial of Young, he followed her orders; when dealing with the sand bugs, he followed TJs orders despite totally disagreeing with them. These are all admirable traits of a seasoned NCO.

But in Pain, we saw what happened when Young wasn't holding his leash. The hallucinations gave Greer the greenlight to settle the Second Mutiny in his own ways, and look at the level of violence he was prepared to use to that end. During the sham trial, Greer was inciting the rest of the military component into storming the court room and putting Young back in his rightful place and not even Lt. Scott was able to talk him down; it took the Colonel himself to bring Greer to heel and calm him down.

Again, I bring the analogy of a leashed pitbull. He's nice and controlled, and cordial if not friendly to strangers telling him what to do. But if that leash is ever let go... Personally, I'd like to learn what exactly Colonel Young did to earn that unending, unshakeable loyalty from Greer. That alone is worth a few episodes, don't you think?

Excellent argument; I would say I agreed with everything you have said.

I would have to review the episode that contained the trial to see if your statement: “During the sham trial, Greer was inciting the rest of the military component into storming the courtroom and putting Young back in his rightful place and not even Lt. Scott was able to talk him down; it took the Colonel himself to bring Greer to heel and calm him down.” was an exaggeration. I don’t remember his conversation with Scott or that he was inciting anyone just expressing his displeasure with the whole scenario. I do remember that Greer wasn’t happy and I don’t for a moment doubt that had Young ordered him in there to end it he would have done so happily. The point is I can’t remember if he was as fired up as you suggest but he was fired up and any difference was one of degree on his part. Your conclusion to his intent is accurate.

And you are right that the hallucination probably showed that if freed of Young’s restraint he may have killed both of them. Frankly I would have agreed with him but your colorful analogy of the leashed pit bull is probably apt.

[Cory Holmes]

From Gateworld's transcrips:

Later, Chloe is in a room where Vanessa James and several other marines are cleaning the weapons. Scott and T.J. are also there.

ARMSTRONG: She wants to gather all the evidence she can and then put it to a vote.

JAMES: What, like a jury?

ARMSTRONG: No. Everyone.

GREER: I say we handle this right now.

(He has just finished putting a rifle back together again and now he turns to the others angrily.)

GREER: I say we go in there, tell ‘em that the party's over and get back to work. Who's with me?

(All the military crew in the room immediately rise to their feet. Greer heads towards the door but Scott jumps up and stops him.)

SCOTT: All right, take it easy, Greer.

GREER: This is my rule.

SCOTT: Sergeant ...

GREER: Lieutenant, this is what they used to do to guys like me for looking at white women the wrong way. Now, d'you think I'm gonna hang back and let this go ...?

(The doors open and Colonel Young is standing outside. The military jump to attention.)

YOUNG: Am I interrupting something?

JOHANSEN: No, sir.

YOUNG (walking into the room): At ease.

GREER: This has gone on long enough, Colonel. We're ready to back your play.

YOUNG: That won't be necessary.

While this gives a good accounting, you really need to rewatch the scene to see the emotion and barely-controlled fury Greer is projecting.

[Blackhole]

From Gateworld's transcrips:

While this gives a good accounting, you really need to rewatch the scene to see the emotion and barely-controlled fury Greer is projecting.

I didn't know that Gateworld has transcripts - very cool! I had forgotten and you are right.

[Daro]

I don't think Greer has demonstrated hate at all. And he has very good reason for his feelings. Rush intentionally stranded everyone, planted false information in the ship's computer, likely duped Franklin into turning himself into a vegetable in the chair, framed Young for a murder he didn't commit and incited a ship wide mutiny by commandeering the ship's computer and threatening all the military with dehydration and starvation. Wray took advantage of a situation to wrest command away from Young and was involved in the mutiny with Rush. And Wray has demonstrated she doesn't like Greer from the beginning by removing him for no go reason when she snaked command from Young. It seems from your and others’ past posts that you may view the mutiny as some form of passive resistance, it wasn’t. Rush and Wray may walk around without guns but their attempted mutiny and the extreme coercion they employed to force the military to capitulate were far from the acts of defenseless individuals. In Greer's mind they were caught in the middle of instituting another mutiny. Who knows what computer tricks were about to be used to threaten and force cooperation from the military? Greer was responding to what he perceived as a clear threat in his mind. And we don't know if Wray's pleas were even getting through to him?

I agree that, from his perspective, Greer has every reason in the world to dislike Wray (not hate her though; taking him off active duty is not the same as locking him up or taking his gun away.) He has every reason to dislike Rush especially.
The attempted coup has been debated ad nauseum; my belief is that the civilians were justified, and so was Rush. Beside the point though, so I'd rather not rehash my reasons for thinking this. I will say that I don't think their coup was exactly a peaceful defiance. Obviously there was a war of resources, with both sides threatening the other, and I can't condone that. The people behind the coup, though, took extreme measures to prevent loss of life on the other side, and Young did the same, so in the end it all worked out. But Greer knows that what happened is not yet resolved, and he's paranoid because of it.
His commanding officer has repeatedly told him that he must try to cooperate. This may be difficult, but for Greer, whose core value is supposedly obeying his commander, it should be at the top of his list.
My point is that Greer's distrust of Wray and hatred, and it is hatred imho, of Rush is interfering with his moral compass, and his duties. So far, discounting the very odd circumstances of "Pain," this hasn't caused much damage. I see the potential for it to in the future. Greer must accept responsibility that his commander upholds: everyone on the ship is to be protected, even difficult and dislikeable ones. Greer was far too ready to kill Wray and Rush. I understand why, and I understand he was hallucinating so that he thought he had clearance to do so. But actually taking another human life requires a level of aggression and apathy that I find alarming. Especially in the circumstance where Wray was wounded, pleading for her life, and not an immediate threat.

"I'm done with you," is a very telling statement. The way he said it gave me chills; absolutely he would kill out of revenge, without much remorse or doubt, and that's the thing that troubles me. Neither Rush or Wray would so calously do the same. Wray chased after Greer when he was persuing Rush. Why would she do that, except out of deep concern for Greer's obviously tenuous mental state at the time? She didn't do it to save Rush, as she didn't see him or know he was there.

For Rush's part, he's only shown the ability to directly kill someone if they are not human. He's been a factor in every death so far, to some degree or another, but most of the time he recoils from violence.

Greer scares me because he is a killer, pure and simple, and I have little doubt anymore that he would get rid of anyone without any hesitation if he thought it was for Young's good. His ability to dehumanize those he dislikes is the part I cannot accept. Wray has done nothing to him to warrant her execution. We don't know if he heard her pleas for mercy, but I think he did, considering how he lowered his weapon at first and then, when the ghost of his father urged him, raised it again to fire.

[Daro]

I disagree. What has Greer done that has ever been that violent? Imo in every instance when Greer has been aggressive the provoking party more than had it coming. Please provide unjustified examples. In Pain he believed that Rush and Wray had incited another mutiny. Frankly if they had done so on the heels of their first one then he should have shot them both. He was hallucinating and wasn’t responsible. Among others, Rush was running around the ship because he thought the Blue Aliens had invaded and Lt. James thought she had killed Lt. Scott. Greer is solider and Imo I think he has performed his job admirably with the necessary force and restraint.

I'm sorry, you're wrong.

Greer has been violent beyond acceptable standards in several situations. For example, in the desert in "Air," he kicked the hell out of Rush. All his hatred of the man aside, that is not the action of a responsible military officer; it's the action of a loose cannon. Rush didn't do anything to him at that time to warrant such a reaction, he was just being a jackass. Later, Greer refused to share water, even though Rush had given his to Scott (which, btw, allowed Scott to survive and find the lime; if Rush had not done that, they all would be dead.) The scuffle that broke out was instigated by Rush, I know. When they get back to the gate, though, Rush makes a snarky comment. In response, Greer gives a gun to an untrained computer geek, with the obvious threat that Eli should shoot Rush if Rush got out of hand.

Riley had to block Greer from his advance on Wray after she challenged his right to be running around with a gun; he moved toward her with clear aggression. That is not the action of a disciplined military officer.

Greer also has a nasty habit of pointing a gun in the face of whoever he is pissed off at on any particular day. Rush in "Space," for example. It's not that Greer brought his gun up, it's that he kept it there even after he realized that Rush was no threat. Greer also tried to lead what can only fairly be described as a mutiny himself during "Justice." He intended to lead the military personnel, against his commander's orders and also Scott's, to crack down on the civilians for holding a trial that Young himself authorized. No matter that he intended to give command back to Young when it was done, but Greer's plan there was to, briefly, take control of the ship, was it not?

Greer is aggressive, and often it's justifiable. And it's almost always understandable. But he does not behave like Scott, who is the model for how an officer should act. I agree totally that Greer can easily be compared to a leashed pit bull; in fact, I'm sure I've heard Louis Ferreira refer to him as such in an interview, though I will have to do some searching to find that. Not that I would take out-of-story actor interviews as cannon, but I know that they do influence you some.

[DarkAsgard]

Greer's mind is so fractured and tortured by the life he live, redemption may be close to impossible for him. I go agree with the original poster on this thread that Greer comes off as a great character in one episode and a complete douche in another. He got some serious fence mending, becuase it seems like he may end up fighting alone.