'Pain' (117) General Discussion

[major davis]

I think the smurfs will be back for season 2. Don't worry. .

Wow. What a supprise. Everyone like hated this episode. Am I the only one who thought it was Stinking awesome!!!! Weird thing was I didn't like the montage. Montages are usually one of my fav parts of SGU. This one just didn't fit....... At all.

Anyways can't figure out why this ep is gaining such hate. . I didn't like sabotage and yet everyone loved it and now I LOVE this episode but everyone hates it.

[garhkal]

Why did Greer hesitate so long if he was so under the influence of the tick? Why was Rush so unable to realize it wasn't real when he's usually so grounded in logic and reasoning and knew what was going on?

On Greer, i think he was so wrapped up in already thinking those 2 were plotting he was sent over the edge and was drawing it out (much like some of those with PTSD do). As for Rush, well he recently had a near life experience with the chair and his wife, so perhaps his logical mind harkened back to that.

Rush is deathly afraid of being taken again
and his acting is top notch.

He really pulled out hte stops to show his fear here. Cudos..

-Wray almost got killed, dammit Greer! just shoot her!

Part of me was actually thinking he was hallucinating she was there..

I found it interesting that when he was in trouble, it was Col. Young that he called first.

That actually surprised the heck out of me he immediately called for Young.

So we get official confirmation that the Blue Aliens coming through the gate never actually happens, kind of a teaser let down.

As mentioned elsewhere, perhaps ONE did manage to get aboard (when rush first saw that lone one) and he manages to get a Kino remote, waits till we dial to a planet and tosses it through for his brethren to find.. so they would then have a way to get into the destiny.

- Rush with a pipe, taking down Greer and a few others; the man probably single-handily saved this episode with that one scene.

He did seem like a natural with that pipe. Though i wonder if Wray is going to hold him stabbing her with a screwdriver against him.

I have a feeling that perhaps we just don't know enough about Eli to be able to guess what his greatest fear is yet. Actually, while I'm sure his mom is near the top of the list, I'm thinking it's dying. Like in "Time," the whole conversation with Rush. Maybe not enough bad stuff has actually happened to Eli yet for us to get a powerful hallucination out of him?

Well he is probably the youngest and least 'worldly' of the crew, so has not had many experiences for the hallucinations to draw on.

I believe in Sabotage, Rush mentions that they're going to fall roughly 50,000LY short and they say that's only about 5% of the total distance. So, that would make the distance between the two most recent galaxies roughly 1,000,000LY. Now if they ever give any indication of the time it took, speed could be estimated.

Part of me would have lked that, but others wouldn't have. But i do like how in the early part they did mention the engines are working at a higher efficiency.

Epic Wins:
- Rush with pipe
- Greer playing "Survivor" with Rush and Wray
- Wray getting WTFPWNED by Rush
- Scott getting killed again, and being bashed by Rush

A big Plus 1 for all but scott getting killed. I am actually starting to like him.

I noticed how Young is keeping a close eye on her to make sure she doesn't overdo it.

I liked how he seemed to be conflicted with whether to tell Scott or not.

[meo3000]

I think people dont like it cause it was a filler. We didnt learn anything new from the characters or their environment, except that once again theyre the wrong people.

A pattern is emerging with Carl Binder writting.

-Demons: false beliefs almost cost Teal'c life

-Before i sleep: Weir faces her own mortality
-Letters from Pegasus: People record messages for loved ones knowing they probably never will be back.
-Aurora: crew stuck in a false reality
-The hive: mind altering drugs
-Micheal: brainwashing
-Irresistible: Lucius, brainwashing, hallucinations
-Progeny: Replicators, AI
-The real world: Weir infected by nanites, virtual reality
-Phantoms: hallucinations do i need to say more
-Echoes: more hallucinations
-Lifeline: virtual reality diversion
-Quarantine: Atlantis is locked down, self-destruct activated, people need to face their mortality
-Ghost in the machine: see a pattern here
-Inquisition: their integrity, actions are put in question in a trial
-Identity: body swap

-Pain: hallucinations

He also wrote Water and Life but apparently restrained himself from his normal style. Maybe its time he find a new show to write for. Im not saying his stories arent good, its just almost always the same stuff.

[derrickh]

This was a bad episode. Not because of the retread plot device that we've seen dozens of times in various Star Treks. There's a standard formula for the 'Im seeing things' episode. Simple. effective, boring.

We all knew this was coming after the first 3 minutes. And I'm sure everyone watching hoped that SGU was going to do something to flip the standard formula on its head and make it exciting. Nope. Instead it made a bad formula even worse by making the characters act like complete idiots.

Super smart scientist starts seeing things. He says nothing. Trained military soldier who has been trusted to go to other planets doesnt say a word when he thinks snakes are in his arm. Super hot soldier lady doesn't try to get help for the imaginary manslut she's hit on the head.

And thats just the start.

When they find out about the ticks, instead of making a ship wide announcement of 'Hey, we have space ticks that make you hallucinate so please come to the infirmary to be checked out', Young decides to only let the cool kids know. This entire episode could have been avoided by a single text message.

And once they pull the ticks out, do they put them into a lidded container? Nope, just a flat tray. Because space ticks cant jump or hop or fly. Oh wait, they can. Plus, they kill them by squishing it with a thumb? That doesn't seem too smart. Since this bug has been secreting heroin all day, maybe skin contact with it's guts isnt the best idea.

And Chloe...she is..how do I say this...a complete and utter imbecile. Not only does she fall in love with the alien insect shooting LSD into her brain, she coerces ELI into not telling anyone by playing on the fact that he has a crush on her. If he had held out for another 30 seconds, you know the next words out of her mouth would've been 'If you let me keep my insect dad, I'll let you touch my boobs'.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

....So, yeah, Greer's anger issues are kind of cliche but why are some fans taking his character to task?
....With that said TPTB really need to stop having Greer point guns in people's faces.
.... I find it interesting that so many people root for Eli on this issue. Why? Chloe doesn’t owe him anything. And Scott didn’t take anything away from Eli. Eli is infatuated with Chloe and frankly he needs to get a bit of a life. He’s no different from Lt. James on this front. Frankly if Chloe was a good-looking man and Eli was an overweight, average-looking female this wouldn’t even be a debate. We would expect the “Male Chloe” to hook up with the most beautiful woman on the ship, not the overweight woman.
....

Anger issues aren't only left to Greer. Young clearly has a problem with his temper and from Rush's reaction to the alien (although understandable given the level of fear), he's got anger too. And don't forget Chloe, who had no problem flattening Rush. Maybe it's something in the air Greer's anger, for me anyway, is only an issue if he did something other than what he does. If he was an accountant or something, then yeah, that anger would have no place, but it's not like there isn't a place in the military for angry people, so no taking him to task by me. If you don't mess around with Greer or the orderly world he lives in/by, then you're not going to have a problem with Greer.

You raise a very valid point about Chloe/Eli. If the "Eli" character had all of Eli's nerd qualities but happened to be an overweight woman, I sincerely doubt people would be insisting that he was somehow entitled to "Chloe".

My two favorite moments during this episode: Col. Young & Lt. Scott each crushing a tick...and hearing the oh-so-wonderfully satisfying CRUNCH of a dead critter twice. Ooooh yeah...

That WAS very satisfying! I don't normally kill bugs but there are times when bugs cross the line and have to go. This was definitely one of those times.

... Rush, despite his callous and enigmatic exterior, does have a deep seated fear after all. The fear seems to be more primal than emotional - a fear for his life. I think it's interesting that it wasn't just the fact that aliens scared him, but aliens that managed to probe into his mind - his mind being what I believe to be what Rush believes to be his greatest asset. There is nothing more scary than beings who can take your greatest strength away from you.

....Meanwhile, I totally disagree with the "angry black man" label being put on Greer's portrayl. Anytime these stereotype labels are put on these it cheapens what lies underneath, and it's now feels more like they're being sensational ("lookit! I'm pointing out other people's political incorrectness to make me look better! Woooo!"). Yes, Greer was going around waving a gun at people, but his reasons are very noble IMHO. His fear of failing the crew, of Young, drove him to take drastic actions. It was probably the wrong thing to do if he really wanted to quelll a rebellion, but like he said in "Life" - he's the guy that has to do these sometimes-necessary things, he's been trained to do these things.


....Now, that thing that I've been waiting for? It's what Senator Armstrong said. For the first time, someone in the series expressed the feeling that this is a dream come true; that they are sailing the stars, seeing things no human has ever seen, exploring the far reaches of reality and existence. When he said those things, I felt a chill go down my spine. It's a very powerful thing, that urge to explore, to see and understand so many new things, and I'm glad it was Chloe who expressed these feelings (since the Senator was just an extension of Chloe's mind). The quote in my sig is, as indicated, from the great Carl Sagan. Another quote from him is:

"The exploration of the cosmos is a voyage of self-discovery."

Considering that Chloe seems to be the one with the most to discover about what she is capable of herself, this revelation that being out there among the stars is a dream of her and her father's is a perfect fit

......Oh, and the scenes between TJ and Young were as cute as ever. Young's overprotectiveness continues. It's pretty sweet.

.....There was one intriguing notion introduced in this episode that I wish they developed more, which was how they may need to limit gate travel if bad stuff like this keeps happening, introduced in the last scene. At the time, it felt like it came out of nowhere - they've had problems offworld before but never had this thought. However, it was still a very very interesting thought.

Rush: Being reduced to that level of primal fear, and primal reaction, for him must have been terrifying. He's often mocked the little boys playing soldiers and yet when it comes down to his life, to his very essence, he's driven to kill. There';s a lot of fears there.

Greer: I agree with you. Reducing Greer to that stereotype really diminishes him as a character. I can understand where it comes from but in doing so, in reducing him to three words, "angry black man", to sum up what and why he is, really does cheapen him as a character. Greer is one of the more complex and layered characters on the show and every time that man is in front of the camera, something he does is meaningful. And he's so full of awesome that 3 words is not nearly enough

Chloe: the woman gets a hell of a lot of grief but on this show, Chloe is the sense of wonder. Sure, Eli hasn't been on a spaceship, blah blah blah, but Eli is still jaded by the things he knows. Chloe is simply experiencing it, and through her, we experience it. I think that's why her hallucination experience was different.

Young and TJ: I love their scenes together. That is a man that is trying, damned hard.

Young and the gate: I'm glad that he didn't call off going offworld. It would be easy and understandable to give in to fear and never go out again, but you have to keep trying.

How about you people stop reading every possible spoiler beforehand, and see the episodes unbiased . It might improve your viewer experience.

Peace .

I like the spoilers, within reason, and getting to speculate with so many others about what will happen actually improves my experience. But I'm weird so it's likely just me

I think the smurfs will be back for season 2. Don't worry. .

Wow. What a supprise. Everyone like hated this episode. Am I the only one who thought it was Stinking awesome!!!! Weird thing was I didn't like the montage. Montages are usually one of my fav parts of SGU. This one just didn't fit....... At all.

Anyways can't figure out why this ep is gaining such hate. . I didn't like sabotage and yet everyone loved it and now I LOVE this episode but everyone hates it.

Nope, you're not alone there.

....That actually surprised the heck out of me he immediately called for Young.
...As mentioned elsewhere, perhaps ONE did manage to get aboard

Me too. Sure, in a logical way, it makes sense, because hey, Young's the guy that can bring the military in, but logic isn't the thing with these two and I was quite surprised, pleasantly surprised, that when the chips are down, that Rush knew he not only should go to Young to tell him what was happening, but that he knew that he could go to Young to help him. You dont do that when you're afraid unless you're pretty sure you can rely on that. It's a nice touch in the development between these two characters.

[12OzMouse]

Like others, I felt this was a weaker episode and one that was just stuck in the lineup. I know that not all episodes can be blockbusters, but this one lacked on a lot of different levels. I'm all for artistic license, but at the point early in the ep when they realized that those affected had all been on the away team, why weren't all those folks rounded up then? I know why, but it's just one of those plot points that make the over all show less than it potentially could have been. I mean, as their checking peoples bodies for the tick, I'm sitting there going, what about Greer and Rush?

I do think that there were some stunning individual performances, too bad they weren't in a better episode. Although I guess without those individual highpoints, this would have been a real stinker...

[kymeric]

I kinda want MORE musical montages. Yeah you heard me!

[HaMm3r]

I kinda want MORE musical montages. Yeah you heard me!

Yes! We should start a petition for an episode totally comprised of nothing but music montages. Now wouldn't that be awesome!!

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Yes! We should start a petition for an episode totally comprised of nothing but music montages. Now wouldn't that be awesome!!

and dancing!
come on, you can't have a decent musical episode without dancing

[Kaiphantom]

You're tired of the angry black man stereotype. Well, black male characters tend to be negative stereotypes because all the positive stereotypes are usually preserved for white characters like Rush (super genius). I'm tired of that.

I agree with you. I want to see Greer in a more heroic role, doing good, and *not* stuck in the "angry black man" role. The character, while initially playing that role, put a lot more depth into it, only to relapse into a stereotype that is overdone. I expect better in this day and age.

Obviously you prefer Eli to get Chloe. And that’s fine. But to refer to Scott as “bad boy” is absurd. Scott is American pie all the way. The only thing different about his character from previous types like him is his sexual appetite. But even with that Scott has been loyal to Chloe since he has gotten together with her. He has treated her well. I find it interesting that so many people root for Eli on this issue. Why? Chloe doesn’t owe him anything. And Scott didn’t take anything away from Eli. Eli is infatuated with Chloe and frankly he needs to get a bit of a life. He’s no different from Lt. James on this front. Frankly if Chloe was a good-looking man and Eli was an overweight, average-looking female this wouldn’t even be a debate. We would expect the “Male Chloe” to hook up with the most beautiful woman on the ship, not the overweight woman. But fanboys want it the other way when it’s the guy that’s doughy and nerdy.

You pretty much said it; audiences prefer to see the good looking guy with the good looking girl. It's another stereotype.

But what I did say about women going for the wrong guy early on, learn from their mistake, and now find the "nice guy" attractive is pretty much true. Scott is a "bad boy" in the sense he's "rougher" than Eli, as far as a female is concerned. I mean, he expects a girl he banged to get an abortion, and when she doesn't, he tries to make his guilt go away with money. And yet, he learned nothing from casual sex, as he's banging James later and totally disregarding her feelings; and then quickly jumps into bed with Chloe. Do you really think he deserves a regular relationship now? Considering he has learned *nothing* about consequences for his actions? Due to TPTB, Chloe won't get pregnant, so that's another bullet he gets a free pass on.

And lastly, I'd rather see Eli move past Chloe. I was heartened when he was ignoring her at the beginning of Human and she came crawling to him, wanting her rag back. But he fell back into it. If Chloe grows up, then maybe I'd consider an Eli/Chloe thing. But right now, neither of them is ready. Of course, Scott/Chloe aren't ready, either (the former, so much more).

It's all realistic of course, since this happens in reality, which actually makes it kind of worse. The only way the situation can be salvaged, is if they do grow past this. Scott, realizing he has much to learn about keeping it in his pants, drifts away from Chloe and acknowledges the hurt he's causing James. Chloe needs to learn that Scott is bad for her, but that won't happen until he does actually hurt her (and she needs 5 years or so of growth). Eli needs to downgrade Chloe's importance and focus on other things; only when you ignore the woman, will you stop being her doormat and she'll actually start wanting you.

So, as you can see, I have issues with all three

Hell, at least Park knows her encounters are purely casual.

[Lahela]

Can I interrupt your plans for SGU - The Musical to ask why nobody has created a "favourite moments" thread?

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Can I interrupt your plans for SGU - The Musical to ask why nobody has created a "favourite moments" thread?

waiting for MattSilver 3k to wake up?

[Lahela]

waiting for MattSilver 3k to wake up?

Fair enough... maybe he has a milkshake hangover

[erotavlas]

I didn't like it that much. When I saw the preview the week before I already lost interest,overall it just didn't engage me. Kind of disappointed too because I was enjoying all the episodes until now.

What would have made it more interesting was if we were led to believe they were all hallucinations but one of them actually turned out to be real at the end. I think that would have made a more exciting episode.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Fair enough... maybe he has a milkshake hangover

he;s lying in a pool of melted chocolate milkshake, distressed pompoms and regret!...okay, I'll see if there's a thread yet...


fave moments thread: http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/7...0#post11508760