'Life' (109) General Discussion

[EllieVee]

Agreed. Young was giving Rush some much needed perspective. When it comes to the Ancient stuff, he seems to get so enthralled by the potential for discovery, he forgets about consequences or simply assumes that the greater good would be worth someone else sacrificing.

I vote Young off the island.

[EllieVee]

I don't think that was Young's point though. Rush is basically demanding that someone sit in the chair, no matter the consequences, and Young doesn't want to force or ask someone to do that until he knows it's relatively safe. Don't forget, it took the Asgard to save O'Neill from the information overload in SG-1. I think it's safe to say that the Destiny crew wouldn't have the capabilities to help if something went wrong.

So it wasn't a case of Young saying "kill yourself, Rush." It was a case of him trying to motivate Rush to find out more about the chair.

Perhaps, but you seem to have missed my point, which was that Young is irrational when it comes to Rush.

[Yoshi442]

I agree that Destiny doesn't seem like a top priority to the SGC (as it's the Pentagon dealing with them, not Cheyenne Mountain, and there appears to be very little threat to it). However, I refuse to pretend that SG-1 and Atlantis didn't happen, and that their super-characters (Whom I love, for all of their 45-minute problem solving skills) don't exist anymore. I would really appreciate a legit on-screen excuse as for why recognizable faces aren't being used--when they give us the easy stone excuse to see them--and yet keep telling us the best and the brightest are on the job.

I wouldn't mind if they put in some throw away line, but I don't think it's so absolutely necessary that it's impossible to enjoy SGU if they never put in that line.

As far as whether they should be on the show even if it were possible? I would say now. The main reason being that they would fail--and a big part of those characters is that they always succeed. Although it would be nice to see McKay fail to solve a problem for once, I must admit. [Although McKay never annoyed me like Goren did on Law and Order: Criminal intent before I stopped watching it. I actually started cheering for the criminals to get away with their crimes just to see Goren fail!]

[jelgate]

If only there was a swimming pool...they could have pool parties on the destiny.They could also airlock the stargate since its just there as a show piece.

Your right. Its not like we saw it used in Air I/II, Air III, Water, Earth, or Time. Oh wait...

[Saquist]

I'd like to say that the "45 min problem solving" that used to happen in SG1 and SGA, is 45 min for the viewers, but the show wasn't in real time (like the series 24). In the story, sometimes it took them 46 min! or several hours, or several days to solve the problem, but we see it wrapped in 45 min of film. How long did O'Neill stayed stucked in that planet? several months I think..

This is true.
Although both series could have used more time to develop those plots (real time) or they could have been more difficult. But it's a fair point. Don't you look at SGA and say every once in a while, "We could have spent alittle more time on this character?" I wanted more out of Teyla and Ford, even Loran. But we liked the characters anyway.

In SGU it's like we're getting everything we asked for in SGA as some kind of cruel joke from a "monkey's paw" that leaves out everything else we liked.

Ok I have two questions that mite start a discussion. First what was the point of this episode besides just more drama about peoples life. I'm with the guy who said a while back hes having trouble seeing this show as a sci fi show. I loved stargate for it action, its good stories and characters (which had the right amount of interaction already) and also its bad guys. Now all I see is drama drama and more drama. This episode had no story and like what has already been said nothing has changed on the ship since the show started.
The second question is a question about the show in general. If atlantis left earth about 5 million years ago and destiny left earth just under a million years ago how can the technology on the destiny pre-date the ata gene technology on atlantis?

Drama, Drama and More Drama, but no story.
See that's my biggest problem. There is NO story here. There is no plot just a situation. (trapped on a ship Billions of Light Years from home) The issue is that story isn't predicated on a season worth of progress. We shouldn't have to suffer through 24 episodes to have one plot.

From what I can see...
Air 1-3 Did have a plot (scarcely acted upon)
Darkness had little to no plot.
Light had a weak to moderate plot
Water, a weak to moderate plot.
Earth, a strong plot.
Time, a weak to moderate plot
Life, had little to no plot.

Normally plots are driven by the events. Characters are forced into action perhaps even funneled down a certain course but there are still decision to be made concerning their situation. Upon first glance it does appear to be just so in SGU but the situation in SGU is predefined. They're trying to find a way back home. That must mean that other plots or stories come to the fore on the regular basis, yet they do not.

In a character driven story should we expect anything less? Obviously we expect greater emphasis on the character's emotional state, the interactions and the reason for they're decisions, there is more drama that punctuates the rise in action, the loss, betrayal or conclusion. So we are invested more in the character yet that means there is an imperative for every scene. There must be visual turning points that direct our attention.

More importantly, even if characters are unfocused, that doesn't therefore mean that the story is thus unfocused. Go to any party and meet12 individuals, attempt to remember their names, their likes and dislikes, backgrounds and personal problems. It's difficult, professionals are made good money to deal with emotional turmoil of as many people in a day. Without a set a files they couldn't keep it all straight.

Apparently we are expected to do same.

[Razor One]

The problem isn't that Rush is unwilling to sit in the chair, it's that he's so gung ho about putting other people in the chair while he himself is so very unwilling.

If he was unwilling to go into the chair and wasn't pushing for others to sit in it, there would have been no issue. From my point of view, Young was trying to make Rush see that if wouldn't risk himself in the chair, he wasn't about to push anyone else in there either.

[Deevil]

More importantly, even if characters are unfocused, that doesn't therefore mean that the story is thus unfocused. Go to any party and meet12 individuals, attempt to remember their names, their likes and dislikes, backgrounds and personal problems. It's difficult, professionals are made good money to deal with emotional turmoil of as many people in a day. Without a set a files they couldn't keep it all straight.

Apparently we are expected to do same.

{snip}

Mind you, I don't think the characters are unfocused. We know exactly who they are, their characters haven't changed only developed which shows that TPTB know exactly who they are - even if their roles on ship are still being molded before our eyes.

Now, whether or not you like the characters is another thing all together.

Also, you see to not understand what it means to be character driven. In a character driven show, events do not push forward the story rather the characters drive the story forward. You seem to think just because something is character driven that it should run by the same formula as plot driven, and that doesn't really work.

[Hibblette]

You're just not letting your crusade go, arent't you? Well, you asked for it:

1. Your partner loses his hand in an accident, and gets a transplant, then you wouldn't let him touch you with another man's hand, cause then it would be all about the sex?

2. We're in the future, there was an accident, your partner's brain gets transplanted into another body, and he returns looking totally different, but with the same mind. So, you'll kick him out, 'cause then it would be all about the sex?

I feel that for you, sex is all about the looks and the body, and the mind has nothing to do with it.

It's not a crusade but the fact that you think it is is very telling...keep watching the show I don't care.

1. It's not the same. The body that lost the hand is still the same consciousness from the get go. The hand comes from somebody who is dead and no I don't believe in residual memory.

2. Again this would be a transplant, if this ever happens. It would take some time I'll admit it.

When it comes to the act of sex it is all about the lover you are with and the equipment that you lust for.

I haven't said anything different so...

And the whole "You asked for it" is rather overly dramatic.

[mjwalshe]

It did seem silly to me, as you say they have built up Rush so well to this point...to have him make such a simple error seems ridiculous.

Well rush is just a little arrogent so maybe he was dismissive of eli's hacking chops.

[OutandAboot]

I wish that MGM could be selling replicas of these t-shirts
http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=906&pos=101

But it's probably too much to ask for

[s09119]

Rush was very-much in character here; willing to sacrifice someone else to satiate his curiosity, but holding back when the only person willing to do it is him. He's not as desperate to kill himself as Sheppard or as willing to throw his own life away for knowledge like Daniel.

[Yusagi]

I'd like to say that the "45 min problem solving" that used to happen in SG1 and SGA, is 45 min for the viewers, but the show wasn't in real time (like the series 24). In the story, sometimes it took them 46 min! or several hours, or several days to solve the problem, but we see it wrapped in 45 min of film. How long did O'Neill stayed stucked in that planet? several months I think..

This is very true. I, personally, was simply quoting a term someone else used.

I wouldn't mind if they put in some throw away line, but I don't think it's so absolutely necessary that it's impossible to enjoy SGU if they never put in that line.

I can deal with it, of course, but it can get a bit confusing when it's half-connected, such as how it's been recently, with the common appearances of Jack and the mentions of 'Earth's brightest minds'. It would be nice to either give a good excuse for them not to be involved, or to toss out a few "One of our scientists, Dr. McKay thought of this: See if it works." Passive involvement could work as plot-points, without them actively being there to follow-through and solve everything.

As far as whether they should be on the show even if it were possible? I would say now. The main reason being that they would fail--and a big part of those characters is that they always succeed. Although it would be nice to see McKay fail to solve a problem for once, I must admit. [Although McKay never annoyed me like Goren did on Law and Order: Criminal intent before I stopped watching it. I actually started cheering for the criminals to get away with their crimes just to see Goren fail!]

It is tricky guest starring people like Sam and McKay, since it simply isn't believable that they would fail, if they arrived to bring the Destiny home. For more localized plots, though, they could guest star someone from the rest of SG-1 or the rest of Atlantis None of these come with an expectation that they absolutely must succeed, nor the possibility of them bringing Destiny home in an hour. (Daniel is very good at what he does, but he also messes up quite often. Zelenka is a genius, but rarely is used to save the day single-handedly.)

[rsanchez]

You'll know Rush will be taking Eli more seriously from now on. Probably all the other scientists on the ship don't even care enough to watch Rush, or are too busy getting beat up or getting it on with Scott. Plus, I think Cold Fuzz has a point, Eli is probably spying on Rush to get cool points from Chloe.

[Descended]

well, the pill he as taken wasn't round or white. I did a freeze-frame. DIdn't check this episode but the one episode he was dumping pills out of bottle they were a golden gell capsule.

They look "round and white" to me

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...005&fullsize=1

The pill size and shape doesn't mean diddly. Those pills could be beta blockers which they give people with PTSD to help them forget the bad memories. Betablockers cause dizziness etc. etc. I know, I take em.

Beta-blockers don't contain acetaminophen, and the bottle clearly states that they contain "acetaminophen." Acetaminophen is used in combination with other painkillers to minimize the need for opioids since they work in synergy.

[Saquist]

{snip}

Mind you, I don't think the characters are unfocused. We know exactly who they are, their characters haven't changed only developed which shows that TPTB know exactly who they are - even if their roles on ship are still being molded before our eyes.

You don't think they are unfocused because they know who they are.
I think they're unfocused because they don't know what they're doing and behave as though they have no common goal when actually they have one common goal and one common organizational system. They're roles are preestablished by that organization.

Now, whether or not you like the characters is another thing all together.

I don't like the characters. (with marked exceptions)

Also, you see to not understand what it means to be character driven. In a character driven show, events do not push forward the story rather the characters drive the story forward. You seem to think just because something is character driven that it should run by the same formula as plot driven, and that doesn't really work.

Well, you're wrong.
Events push every story. More importantly I said nothing of any formula.

A character Test

1) Protagonist’s overall story goal:
2) What stands in his/her way of achieving this goal:
3) What does he/she stand to lose, if not successful:
4) Flaw or greatest fault:
5) Greatest strength:
6) Hates:
7) Loves:
8) Fear:
9) Secret:
10) Dream:

Results

1) Writers who filled out 1-3 with ease prefer writing Dramatic Action.
2) Writers who filled in 4- 10 with ease prefer Character Emotional Development.
3) Writers who filled in everything with ease find both the Dramatic Action and the Character Emotional Development plotlines come easy.

Analysis

Without a firm understanding of points 1-3, you have no front story. The Dramatic Action plotline is what gets the reader turning the pages. Without it there is no excitement on the page.

Without a firm understanding of points 4-10, you are more likely to line up the action pieces of your story, arrange them in a logical order and then draw conclusions. Yet, no matter how exciting the action, this presentation lacks the human element. Such an omission increases your chances of losing your audience’s interest; readers read 70% for character.

SGU's protagonist are barely defined.
There is almost no goal for certain episodes and very little standing in the way.
And as a result they have nothing to lose apparently. (save they're lives)

You will relate that it's the goal of getting home...the obstacles, are the ship, they stand to loose they're lives...

But that's every episode for a possible 7 seasons. That's not a story it's a saga.