Young has been seen with the personnel files for everyone on the ship in previous episodes, so he knows what everyone's background. Secondly, he had to pick someone not from the military and someone who would not have been loyal to Wray.
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Chloe - Jennifer Keller 2.0?
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Originally posted by FallenAngelII View PostEspecially if you look at the way she is. Insecure, not assertive, aimless, currently without a position on the ship (almost everyone else has something they do in order to improve life for everybody on the ship).
Not Assertive- did you miss her beating the crap out of Rush in the pilot? Or her little outburst at his suggestion in Water that he leave Scott to die back on Hoth?
Aimless - That we've seen. You made a special point about not knowing the background of the others as to who could've defended Young... how do we know they're doing stuff like Chloe "should be" doing? And she is trying to find her niche and help out, as evidenced by Time and Justice (Even if she was asked to, she could've said no... but she didn't.)~ When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take back the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! WITH THE LEMONS! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that BURNS YOUR HOUSE DOWN! ~
~ Burning people! He says what we're all thinking! ~
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Originally posted by FallenAngelII View PostI sincerely doubt that out of the 80 or so people currently on the ship, Chloe was the best qualified to act as a defense attorney... because she has a background in political science.
I mean, no one else on the ship has a background in law of any kind?
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Originally posted by FallenAngelII View PostI'm sorry, you must have missed season 5 of Atlantis.
No, but you need to be trained in off-world travel, how to handle a weapon, how to, I don't know, run really fast, should they encounter hostiles. We've seen very few people leave the ship to go off world and Chloe just happens to be one of those despite her having no skills whatsoever to aid the expedition off world! Why her? Why not another scientist or another soldier?
Every person off world is another possible liability in case of an emergency or a combat situation.
She does not have a background in law! Political science =/= Law.
If you look at the things the PTB have had her do insofar, that's what it's beginning to look like.
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Originally posted by MattSilver 3k View PostInsecure - about what exactly? Being trapped on a ship and losing her father? Jeez, everybody would be insecure there.
Originally posted by MattSilver 3k View PostNot Assertive- did you miss her beating the crap out of Rush in the pilot? Or her little outburst at his suggestion in Water that he leave Scott to die back on Hoth?
Originally posted by MattSilver 3k View PostAnd she is trying to find her niche and help out, as evidenced by Time and Justice (Even if she was asked to, she could've said no... but she didn't.)
Originally posted by KEK View PostDid you conveniently ignore the part where I referenced Young wanting to see what everyone was made of, and sending them off-world despite no training?
Originally posted by KEK View Post"This is more politics than law"
Originally posted by KEK View PostTo you, and you seem to be in a tiny minority.
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Originally posted by FallenAngelII View PostFine. Then that's just the PTB shoehorning Chloe into the fray.
Yet we saw no politics in there. It was all about the law.
They keep throwing her into the fray and have her end up succeeding or at least not failing.
She's not a Keller-level Mary Sue. But she's at least a quasi-Sue.
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Perhaps Young thru her into the fray of the trial to prove that there is no correct justice system on the ship for a trial, so Rush wouldn't have gotten the sentence he deserved for the crime he commited. So young passed sentence himself.no means no, and so does pepper spraySig by The Carpentersigpic
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Originally posted by FallenAngelII View PostThe point is not that she didn't fail. The point is that according to Young, the episode and the PTB, out of all of the people on the ship, Chloe was the best person for the job. Oh really? You really want us to believe that?
In fact, Chloe made this comment:
ARMSTRONG: Me?!
YOUNG: You went to Harvard.
ARMSTRONG: Political science!
YOUNG: This is more politics than law.
ARMSTRONG: I-I would think Lieutenant Scott ...
YOUNG: I don't want it to seem like the military against the civilians.
I don't think it's the idea that Chloe was best for this (though she wasn't bad), but she was an intelligent civilian with a political science background (Young does make a good point about politics vs law), and that's what was most important in this case.
She was shoehorned into the episode doing something allegedly only she could do when it's apparent to anyone with half a brain that it was not something that only she could do.
I mean, the PTB actually come right out and tell us that she's the best person for the job (through writing it into Young's lines) when she didn't really do anything spectacular this episode.
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Originally posted by KEK View PostUm, no it isn't, it's the opposite, it proves she has a very valid reason for being there.
MattSilver 3k: Because Young had decided to have everyone get to go off world, even people without any kind of training.
Me: Oooh. The PTB tried to justify shoe-horning her into off-world episodes.
How does what you just said disprove my thesis?
And then I ignored the rest because I've already addressed those issues a hundred or so times over... in the very post you're replying to, actually.
Originally posted by Avenger View PostAnd what law are you talking about? The hearing had no basis in any actual law.
Originally posted by Coronach View PostStuff
Originally posted by Coronach View PostI don't think it's the idea that Chloe was best for this (though she wasn't bad), but she was an intelligent civilian with a political science background (Young does make a good point about politics vs law), and that's what was most important in this case.
Which is what makes it such an obvious shoehorning.
Originally posted by Coronach View PostIt seems to me that you have more of a problem with Chloe than any sort of writing or shoehorning issue. From what I gather, it's the very fact that it was Chloe and not someone else being chosen that has you irked. Because you keep throwing this "allegedly only she could do" stuff around, when this wasn't even suggested (and certainly wasn't said) in the episode itself.
1) Political science =/= Law, no matter what Young says. When you have an evidentiary hearing, you want someone who knows the law to be present.
2) Chloe didn't use any of her knowledge of political science during the hearing. In other words, the very thing Young claims was a main contributing factor to his selection of her as his attorney was useless in the episode.
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Originally posted by FallenAngelII View PostThe skills exhibited in the hearing were all regarding law. None of it was in regards to political science. The hearing had no actual basis in law since they aren't within an Earth jurisdiction, but the questions posed are questions you'd need knowledge of law to ask, not knowledge of political science.
The hearing had no basis in any written law, civilian or military. Law cannot exist unless is written down in some official capacity. At no point have I seen anyone on the ship sit down and develop a proper legal system for determining how a trial would be handled on Destiny, present it to every one and have everyone come to some sort of agreement. They didn't bring in any lawyers or judges from Earth to properly oversee the proceedings.
By all rights, Young was entitled to a military lawyer to represent him and for the "trial" to be conducted in a military court given that he is a member of the military and the victim he was suspected of having killed was a member of the military.
If you honestly think that the hearing had anything to do with law, you are completely ignorant on the subject because there is no law of any kind on Destiny being enforced at this point in time.Last edited by Avenger; 09 December 2009, 03:55 PM.I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
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Originally posted by FallenAngelII View PostMe: Why was Chloe even off world?
MattSilver 3k: Because Young had decided to have everyone get to go off world, even people without any kind of training.
Me: Oooh. The PTB tried to justify shoe-horning her into off-world episodes.
How does what you just said disprove my thesis?
Even if Young never said it, he chose Chloe out of everyone on the ship. Clearly, he thought Chloe was the best (or one of the best) for the job. Which is what's puzzling and irking
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Originally posted by FallenAngelII View PostOK, so I misremembered it a bit. I apologize.
And the fact remains that nothing political sciency was shown! None of the questions posed had anything to do with political science but everything to do with the law. In other words, Chloe's political science background was virtually useless from what we saw.
Which is what makes it such an obvious shoehorning.
Even if Young never said it, he chose Chloe out of everyone on the ship. Clearly, he thought Chloe was the best (or one of the best) for the job. Which is what's puzzling and irking since:
1) Political science =/= Law, no matter what Young says. When you have an evidentiary hearing, you want someone who knows the law to be present.
2) Chloe didn't use any of her knowledge of political science during the hearing. In other words, the very thing Young claims was a main contributing factor to his selection of her as his attorney was useless in the episode.
And I guess we'll have to disagree on the "main contributing factor". As I could just as easily say that I think Young's main contributing factor was that she was a civilian, and that her political science training was an added bonus. The dialogue certainly suggests this.
Interestingly enough, I find it odd that you aren't also complaining about TJ. As it stands, I wouldn't say she's had any truly ground-breaking character material. She was interim leader aboard Destiny in "Water", yes, but aside from that? The reason I mention this is because you'll remember that Young assigned her to do psych evals of the people aboard the Destiny in an episode. And that is all she did. As someone who was admittedly inexperienced (i.e. she mentions she only took one Psych course in her undergrad), isn't that also shoe-horning of a character to give them something to do? If you answer "she was the best qualified to do it", then why would you not grant the same to Chloe?
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