Rush's actions, situation and how will he get out of it?

[EllieVee]

Maybe when you quit the snark and respect my opposing view I will respond. Untill then...

Oh, what is this 'ironic'?

[garhkal]

Tell that to Franklin. Tell that to everyone's lives he risked in Air

How did he risk everyones life in air? Or is this another slam against him for going to the destiny vice another planet in the MW?

Now the question is did young think through his actions in advance or was it a heat of the moment thing. remember he could of had the "chat" on the ship.

From everything seen, it definitely looked like he had it planned out. Especialy with him saying to everyone else to leave.

Tell that to Sen. Armstrong

And how did he kill Sen Armstrong? Did he hold a gun to his head? Did he push him in the shuttle then shut the door?? NO. Sen Armstrong made the CHOICE to go in the shuttle.

I would point out that on a whim, Rush stranded 80 people on the far side of the universe on a derelict ship.

1) how is it a whim? They had enemies shooting the planet and little time to get anywhere else. He chose to go to the place the planet was made for rather than go to another planet risking the inhabitants there if the explosion came through.
2) They did not know it was derilict at the time.

Personally, I would have brought the evidence of Rush's actions out in the open for everyone to see. It would have destroyed his credibility on the ship. I think that would be a more effective way to deal with him than stranding him on a planet.

I would have held Young up in very high regard had he done that, rather than the cowardly way he seemed to go.

The only danger that I have ever seen from dialing from a high power source that might explode during transit is the blast following through the wormhole and damaging the destination gate. If Rush was afraid of this possibility then he could have dialed the Alpha Site or picked an uninhabited planet.

Ok. How much area is destroyed when a gate goes critical. A LOT. Had they gated to the alpha site it would be gone (well had the explosion transfered). And if they went to another uninhabited planet, and the gate was blown up/damaged, how would they get home? Either way they are stranded.

[K^2]

I read through this whole thread now and so far it seems that most people are burning Col. Young for marooning Dr. Rush on this planet. Has anyone stopped to realise that civilian law does not apply here. For all intents and purposes until he relived himself of command, he was the captain of the ship. Maritime law applies. Dr. Rush's actions were mutinous by his own admission. A Captain of a vessel is expected and required to put down mutinies with all force required, up to, and including deadly force. And far from being called to task for the action, the Captain would be commended.
Here is where I see the problem for Col. Young lies. He was not in command at the time he marooned Dr. Rush. He had relinquished command, and therefor violated the chain of command. And I think he knew he did, and that's why he lied.

These are excellent points.

But I would never try to argue whether or not Young's actions are moral, legal, or justifiable. Everything on Destiny is gray area of such things by default. His actions, however, were most certainly short-sighted. Keeping Rush around, holding the video record over his head, would have been a much stronger move. It would allow Young to retain authority, and have an invaluable resource in form of Rush's knowledge.

As such, I do not see Young fit to lead Destiny expedition. By far the best scenario would have been to have a strong leader with level head who is willing to listen to Rush's advice, but also keep him at bay when the time comes. There is no such character aboard Destiny. Or at least, nobody who has shown themselves to be such character yet.

Between Yong's temper and Rush's sociopathic pragmatism, I would have preferred later, as I have explained. With Rush out of the picture... I don't know. They might as well declare democracy and rule by referendum. Won't be any worse than with any one of them in charge.

As for how Dr. Rush will get out of his predicament, I haven't the foggiest. He has no resources, no food, no water, and one crash landed alien ship, about the size of a shuttle.

Which in Stargate is a sure sign that we'll be seeing him again.

[hartman]

These are excellent points.

But I would never try to argue whether or not Young's actions are moral, legal, or justifiable. Everything on Destiny is gray area of such things by default. His actions, however, were most certainly short-sighted. Keeping Rush around, holding the video record over his head, would have been a much stronger move. It would allow Young to retain authority, and have an invaluable resource in form of Rush's knowledge.

As such, I do not see Young fit to lead Destiny expedition. By far the best scenario would have been to have a strong leader with level head who is willing to listen to Rush's advice, but also keep him at bay when the time comes. There is no such character aboard Destiny. Or at least, nobody who has shown themselves to be such character yet.

Between Yong's temper and Rush's sociopathic pragmatism, I would have preferred later, as I have explained. With Rush out of the picture... I don't know. They might as well declare democracy and rule by referendum. Won't be any worse than with any one of them in charge.

Which in Stargate is a sure sign that we'll be seeing him again.

I come from a family with strong military ties, so perhaps I am coming at this from a different angle. I agree with you that just about everything about this is certainly gray area. And current maritime law might not even apply in these circumstances. However, chain of command, no matter how irrelevant it may seem to you and me, is a very real thing to military personnel. A soldier can not follow the orders of any one not in their chain of command, unless the soldiers have been ordered to by someone higher up in their chain of command. For the soldiers on the Destiny, the question of whether who should lead Destiny, will not come up except in theoretical talk-talk. We being civilians might think about who might be the best leader for Destiny, and even talk about holding referendums, but for those soldiers, the question would not come up. Col. Young out ranks them, and was placed in command of them by their superiors.
For me whether Col. Young should be in command is a simple problem, and it comes down to this. He was placed in command of a military unit by a superior Officer in the chain of command. Until Command sees fit to replace him he is in charge.
This is perhaps a bit pig-headed of me but I simply cannot see any way for a military force to be effective without a clear chain of command.

As to what you say about the best thing he should have done, I agree to a point. It would have certainly solved the problem in the short term, however Col. Young would then have to be would then have had to worry about what new mutinous act Dr. Rush was up to. And I strongly doubt that Dr. Rush would have been too concerned about the tape as the evidence against him was nonexistent and the Col. was acting ( it seemed to me) on a strong hunch. It would definitely had made for one heck of a plotline.

My problem with the Colonel's decision was not that he decided to maroon him, as I said before. But that he made that decision without the authority to act. He had not gotten his Authority back until the day after he returned to the ship.

I'm not sure that given the circumstances, there was a right response to Dr. Rush's actions.

I just don't know... Like you said, it is a moral and legal gray area.
One the one hand Col. Young committed an act of murder as he was not in command. On the other hand Col. Young stepped down from command because Dr. Rush in essence staged a coup, and when the Col. realized what was actually going on, marooned him.

Did the Col. have the authority to maroon Dr. Rush. and if so why did he lie about what actually happened?

The more I think about this the more that one act makes less sense. When I first posted I was thinking about this from just the one angle. Problem is how will the SGC replace a commander whom they find incompetent (if indeed they do decide to replace him) when they cannot physically reach him? They cannot simply send in a replacement. An election is out of the question as the only elected leader the U.S. military will follow is the President.


If it sounds as if I am trying to wrap my head around the moral problems involved in this as I am typing, you would be right. Problem is I LIKE Col. Young.

[EllieVee]

These are excellent points.

But I would never try to argue whether or not Young's actions are moral, legal, or justifiable. Everything on Destiny is gray area of such things by default. His actions, however, were most certainly short-sighted. Keeping Rush around, holding the video record over his head, would have been a much stronger move. It would allow Young to retain authority, and have an invaluable resource in form of Rush's knowledge.

Oh yes, Young politically inept as well.

[Commander Zelix]

Ok. How much area is destroyed when a gate goes critical. A LOT. Had they gated to the alpha site it would be gone (well had the explosion transfered). And if they went to another uninhabited planet, and the gate was blown up/damaged, how would they get home? Either way they are stranded.

The poster you were responding to was right. They could easily have dialed a gate within the system. They wouldn't be stranded since those planets are reachable by ship and that is IF the gate would even be damaged. I think the show as shown many times that Rush speeches, excuses and concerns for others are only hypocritical as he only care about himself (and his personal quest/mission on the Destiny).

[FallenAngelII]

I agree...and personally I think Young did things that were WAY more ethically questionable than Rush BUT that doesn't mean he is a BAD guy...he lost his temper...not the mark of a psycho...maybe the mark of a bad leader though

Bad leader, bad person, criminal, murderer. I'll concede that it doesn't automatically make him a psycho, but recall for one moment how he used the stones to go back to Earth masquerading as someone else just to beat Telford senseless.

Assault and battery and murder within a short span of time. He's on his way of becoming a violent career criminal.

Rush is a loose cannon, deceptive, and unprdictable. that's not the kind of person I want controlling the course of my life. You have said that Rush simply doesn't care about other people, I agree. IMO that doesn't make for a good leader.

No, those are Young and Greer. A "Loose Canon" is someone who might, at any instance, freak out and hurt others just because. Rush doesn't do that. He's Machiavellian.

I read through this whole thread now and so far it seems that most people are burning Col. Young for marooning Dr. Rush on this planet. Has anyone stopped to realise that civilian law does not apply here. For all intents and purposes until he relived himself of command, he was the captain of the ship. Maritime law applies. Dr. Rush's actions were mutinous by his own admission. A Captain of a vessel is expected and required to put down mutinies with all force required, up to, and including deadly force. And far from being called to task for the action, the Captain would be commended.

Young is not the captain of the vessel. Because without the science team, Young couldn't do anything. Why should Young be captain when he has no clue about how make the ship run?

If you kill off all of the scientists, the rest are screwed. Using the logic of "Survival of the fittest", a scientist should be the captain.

Who made Young captain? Also, Maritime law or not, Young committed murder and then covered it up. So, no, it was not the punishment for a mutinous subordinate. It was the cowardly act of a selfish man.

The poster you were responding to was right. They could easily have dialed a gate within the system. They wouldn't be stranded since those planets are reachable by ship and that is IF the gate would even be damaged. I think the show as shown many times that Rush speeches, excuses and concerns for others are only hypocritical as he only care about himself (and his personal quest/mission on the Destiny).

And the question remains:
How does this translate into that Rush deserves to die of starvation and dehydration on a desert planet (or that Young had the right to do that to him and then lie about how he got trapped in a "rock slide", which is funny seeing as how most of the planet was sand).

[kgirluvr]

Anyone get the idea that Young possibly took rush's supply bag, and his electronic equipment? Young was looking at the ship/shuttle after he head butted rush, like if something was looking at him Or Young may have plotted so Young couldnt miracilously fix the ship when he woke up.

I suspect people are on the ship, or rush may find a way to dial a gate adress to another world if he somehow memorized any seeded gate addresses. Also teh ship could have an EM damping/dampening? field, to "mask" that it was out of power espeically with SGU's primitive sensors.

[EllieVee]

No, I think Young just walked off.

[kgirluvr]

after he head butt rush.. he looks down on rush ( high and mighty) then his eye balls look up and stares. ( i assume its the ship)

[EllieVee]

I thought he was just staring off into the distance. He could have been staring at the ship but he didn't bring anything back with him through the gate, I think.

[jcainhaze]

Or maybe the headbutt knocked him silly and he forgot where he was. Then he thought maybe he fell down a rockslide and Rush died. I never understood headbutts. How is it going to help you win by smashing your own head into someone elses head???

[EllieVee]

Given the possibilities of concussion from headbutting, I wouldn't do it.

[Misfits]

There are a few possibilities here.

Spoiler:

And less likely, Rush could take the power source from the ship, boost the gate, and "somehow" get it to dial the 9 chevron address to the ship (ship is ~close, shouldn't take much extra power).

Can't wait for what the writers cooked up for this.

Actually, that is the best possibility that I have read so far, with a minor tweak.
Dr. Rush finds a way inside the ship, salvages the power supply, Adapts it to the Stargate, and connects to a Stargate in the next galaxy in Destiny's path.

Connecting to the next galaxy would be more feasible. He has knowledge of the seeded planets ahead of Destiny, Destiny's FTL is not hyperspace, therefore, slower, much slower than a Stargate wormhole.

Besides, Destiny's Stargate is off-line during the FTL, and most of the time, Destiny is traveling in FTL.

[Misfits]

I totally disagree. I'd trust Rush a HELL of a lot more than Young.

Just make sure you're not the one trapped in an ice world hole, with him having the ability to leave you there.

Or, come down with a sickness on an AWAY mission with him being the only one who could help you.

Otherwise, you can trust him with your life.

For a moment there, I thought he was in trouble.