'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[aretood2]

The thing is, Jack isn't an idiot either. As much as Rush would really piss him off, he'd keep on a board - under guard if necessary - because Rush is a valuable resource.

Or he would just beat him into submission. Jack is more than welling to do what it takes. But he is also a softy so he might just threaten him and do some manipulation of his own.

[jelgate]

The guy in Red Sky also wasn't the 'head' scientist on a ship billions of light years from home. He has the ability to metre himself when he has too, and there is no way he would have killed Rush or left him for dead.

Jack was never one to let a person's skills excuse their actions.

[Girlbot]

I'm not so sure. Jack has a temper as much as anyone else. He probably would have shot that guy in Red Sky if SG-1 wasn't there. And that guy wasn't even half as dangerous as Rush.

Jack also has the ability to deal with the consequences of his actions. When he makes a decision, he knows it's the best based on the info he has.
Look what happened with Fifth. They really betrayed that poor thing, but Jack projected ahead and made what I call a really tough decision. I felt terrible for fifth, the betrayal in his eyes. But Jack dealt with the consequences, perhaps that was because he had to deal with his son's death, and continue on.

[Deevil]

Or he would just beat him into submission. Jack is more than welling to do what it takes. But he is also a softy so he might just threaten him and do some manipulation of his own.

I think you hit the nail on the head, he'll manipulate Rush.

Jack was never one to let a person's skills excuse their actions.

I didn't say he would let Rush's skills excuse his actions, not-a-once. I said that he wouldn't waste Rush as a resource, unlike Young has.

[jelgate]

I didn't say he would let Rush's skills excuse his actions, not-a-once. I said that he wouldn't waste Rush as a resource, unlike Young has.

But how can you use an untrustworthy resource?

[Deevil]

But how can you use an untrustworthy resource?

Very Carefully.

There would have to be a lot of checks and balances in place, and a real fear of consequences for Rush... and Jack could figure that one out - even Rush would be scared of Jack if Jack really wanted him to be.

[Lahela]

But how can you use an untrustworthy resource?

The same way he used Harry. Carefully.

[jelgate]

The same way he used Harry. Carefully.

But Maybourne wasn't that good at mantipulation

[Misfits]

Very Carefully.

There would have to be a lot of checks and balances in place, and a real fear of consequences for Rush... and Jack could figure that one out - even Rush would be scared of Jack if Jack really wanted him to be.

You're fooling yourself. Col. Jack O'Neill would have put a bullet in Dr. Rush's head. PERIOD

Do you remember SG-1 Season 4, Episode 2, "The Other Side"?
It dealt with an alien planet that dialed earth, and asked for help.
Their leader was Alar (Rene Auberjonois), of Euronda.
They wanted to trade their advanced technology and medical knowledge for Heavy Water, which powered their defense shield.
Carter surmised that their technology was more than 100 years ahead of Earth technology.
All was set in motion for the trade to happen, and Gen. Hammond was very happy about the prospect of finally acquiring advanced technology, energy shield, fusion generation, etc.....
Then Alar commented to Jack about his "misgivings about Teal'c, asking that he not return again because he is not like "us".
Jack finds out that all Eurondans are young and Caucasian -- "genetically pure," as Alar puts it.
Back on Earth, Gen. Hammond orders Jack to make the trade, but Jack disobeys.
Without any more Heavy Water, as Euronda was being destroyed, Alar offers Jack ALL of the advanced technology for his safety.
Jack tells Alar not to follow, and steps through the Stargate back to Earth and orders for the iris to close.
You could hear the thud of something hitting the closed iris, it was Alar who followed Jack anyway.
Gen. Hammond is puzzled as to the status of the technology he ordered Jack to trade for.

So, Jack is the only person who made the decision to end relations with Eurondans, and he disobeyed a direct order to do it.
He was Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
The advanced technology and medicine that would have helped Earth was not indispensable.
No matter how many lives it could save, it wasn't worth safe passage to a single Eurondan.

After watching this episode again, you still think Jack would have tolerated Dr. Rush, or stopped short of out right killing him when he responded "we'll never be done"?

I don't think so.

[Lahela]

<stuff>

Are you joking? Jack O'Neill? He would shoot Rush? Not in a million years. He never would have shot Kinsey, and he only time he shot Maybourne was in actual self defense (Paradise Lost). Jack does not hide his distaste for people, he waves a weapon around as a threat, but he would not shoot one of his own people. The situation in The Other Side was completely different, and the comparison is frankly untenable.

[Girlbot]

You're fooling yourself. Col. Jack O'Neill would have put a bullet in Dr. Rush's head. PERIOD

Do you remember SG-1 Season 4, Episode 2, "The Other Side"?
It dealt with an alien planet that dialed earth, and asked for help.
Their leader was Alar (Rene Auberjonois), of Euronda.
They wanted to trade their advanced technology and medical knowledge for Heavy Water, which powered their defense shield.
Carter surmised that their technology was more than 100 years ahead of Earth technology.
All was set in motion for the trade to happen, and Gen. Hammond was very happy about the prospect of finally acquiring advanced technology, energy shield, fusion generation, etc.....
Then Alar commented to Jack about his "misgivings about Teal'c, asking that he not return again because he is not like "us".
Jack finds out that all Eurondans are young and Caucasian -- "genetically pure," as Alar puts it.
Back on Earth, Gen. Hammond orders Jack to make the trade, but Jack disobeys.
Without any more Heavy Water, as Euronda was being destroyed, Alar offers Jack ALL of the advanced technology for his safety.
Jack tells Alar not to follow, and steps through the Stargate back to Earth and orders for the iris to close.
You could hear the thud of something hitting the closed iris, it was Alar who followed Jack anyway.
Gen. Hammond is puzzled as to the status of the technology he ordered Jack to trade for.

So, Jack is the only person who made the decision to end relations with Eurondans, and he disobeyed a direct order to do it.
He was Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
The advanced technology and medicine that would have helped Earth was not indispensable.
No matter how many lives it could save, it wasn't worth safe passage to a single Eurondan.

After watching this episode again, you still think Jack would have tolerated Dr. Rush, or stopped short of out right killing him when he responded "we'll never be done"?

I don't think so.

I made this same argument. I love that ep, and the justice meted out was perfect. Just as Jack sacrificed tecnology, Young didn't worry about it taking a bit longer to reach their goal. Rush simply coule not be tolerated anymore, he was a threat.
No one condemend Jack making a judgment call even though he could have check with Hammond first, And I won't condemn Young either .

[AdamTM]

You're fooling yourself. Col. Jack O'Neill would have put a bullet in Dr. Rush's head. PERIOD

Do you remember SG-1 Season 4, Episode 2, "The Other Side"?
It dealt with an alien planet that dialed earth, and asked for help.
Their leader was Alar (Rene Auberjonois), of Euronda.
They wanted to trade their advanced technology and medical knowledge for Heavy Water, which powered their defense shield.
Carter surmised that their technology was more than 100 years ahead of Earth technology.
All was set in motion for the trade to happen, and Gen. Hammond was very happy about the prospect of finally acquiring advanced technology, energy shield, fusion generation, etc.....
Then Alar commented to Jack about his "misgivings about Teal'c, asking that he not return again because he is not like "us".
Jack finds out that all Eurondans are young and Caucasian -- "genetically pure," as Alar puts it.
Back on Earth, Gen. Hammond orders Jack to make the trade, but Jack disobeys.
Without any more Heavy Water, as Euronda was being destroyed, Alar offers Jack ALL of the advanced technology for his safety.
Jack tells Alar not to follow, and steps through the Stargate back to Earth and orders for the iris to close.
You could hear the thud of something hitting the closed iris, it was Alar who followed Jack anyway.
Gen. Hammond is puzzled as to the status of the technology he ordered Jack to trade for.

So, Jack is the only person who made the decision to end relations with Eurondans, and he disobeyed a direct order to do it.
He was Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
The advanced technology and medicine that would have helped Earth was not indispensable.
No matter how many lives it could save, it wasn't worth safe passage to a single Eurondan.

After watching this episode again, you still think Jack would have tolerated Dr. Rush, or stopped short of out right killing him when he responded "we'll never be done"?

I don't think so.

Rush would know better than to **** with O'Neil anyways

[Saquist]

The problem that I see with the fittest is that it will be mostly military, which happens to be the minority of the crew.
Lottery is not perfect, however, it was the best solution given the circumstances.

But why a lottery if you're not going to contribute to the survival of the whole.
If you're useless or there is more men than women then how can they be justified.

It interesting you said the "fittest" because it really is about survival of the fittest. At least I think is.

[Misfits]

Are you joking? Jack O'Neill? He would shoot Rush? Not in a million years. He never would have shot Kinsey, and he only time he shot Maybourne was in actual self defense (Paradise Lost). Jack does not hide his distaste for people, he waves a weapon around as a threat, but he would not shoot one of his own people. The situation in The Other Side was completely different, and the comparison is frankly untenable.

IMO, Jack would do what is necessary. If he perceived someone, anyone as a threat, he would take care of business.
In "The Other Side", he showed that he has no qualms about making a decision that would make him the Judge, Jury, and Executioner. Even disobeying a direct order to do so.
As for the benefit that would deny him, or Earth, of indispensable Assets doesn't figure into his decision.
Therefore, Dr. Rush working against his command would not be tolerated by him. And after given the chance to stand down, if Rush responded the same way he responded to Col. Young, Jack wouldn't tolerate it at all.
This is how military commanders respond to challenges to their authority, always.
The only ones that can make them stand down are their superior officers.
Being in command is drastically different than anything else.
The burden of command is the completion of their mission and the safety of everyone under their command.
If they fail, even slightly, from this responsibility, then people may die, and they take that very seriously. Remember how Sgt. Greer was deeply upset in "Time" because he was watching people dying under his watch?
It is this very relationship that makes the troop so loyal to their commanding officers.
A CO can be put in charge, but he still has to earn their loyalty and respect, without which they can't lead effectively.
They act as one unit.
So, if Dr. Rush frames Col. Young for murder, of course everyone under his command will come to his defense and work to eliminate that threat.
There was a perfect example of that when Gen. Hammond was blackmailed into resigning his command.
Jack was willing to work in tandem with Col. Melbourne, not best of friends, and point a gun at Sen. Kinsey. And if Sen. Kinsey made a stupid response to Jack, like Dr. Rush did to Col. Young, he would have shot him. Jack would never draw a gun on someone unless he is willing to use it.
Military people don't point guns at someone just for show.
If they point, you better believe they are willing to use it.
Jack O'Neill may have been portrayed as a softie, however, as a Colonel in US Air Force he will take care of business when necessary, including eliminating Dr. Rush, regardless of how indispensable he thought he was, if Jack thought it was necessary.
Military officers do not attain the rank of Colonel because they kiss ass. They earn it.

[Misfits]

Rush would know better than to **** with O'Neil anyways

If Jack impeded him, which is very likely, since Jack also wouldn't tolerate Dr. Rush endangering people's lives, you actually think Dr. Rush won't go there?