'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[natyanayaki]

I think that Destiny and ships like her were for distributing life...themselves...colonization.

I think so too. Rush assumed that the Destiny had never been lived in, that it didn't colonize, but it would be interesting to find out that other ships, ahead of the Destiny did colonize, and that there are descendants of Ancients who didn't ascend out there. I know that the writers didn't want to go that route initially, but I think they should. Find a settlement with the descendants, bring aboard and "alien" who unlike previous aliens, is more of a scientist, who would have knowledge of the ship (he/she can still be a warrior, but it would be interesting for an alien main character to not be a stoic warrior, but be a silly, scientific, acrobatic fighter). They don't need to run into these descendants all that often, but it would be interesting to meet one group, and to know that they are out there, but to be unsure of exactly where they are.

[Saquist]

That's a pity.
The route they're on seems...dead.

[Girlbot]

That's a pity.
The route they're on seems...dead.

It is interesting that if this is a seed ship, why there is no data about where it has been. Did they seed with genetic material, or with real people? Did I miss the explanation some where? Is this ship somehow sentient, but damaged?

[Blackhole]

I have a new juicy bit of speculation to throw out there for why Young marooned Rush.

I believe it was said in the first episode that the Destiny is following the route of an earlier Ancient ship that had seeded Stargates on habitable worlds. Apparently the Destiny was designed for colonization but the Ancients ascended. Destiny's projected route and the location of Stargates are stored in the ship's computer databanks. Rush probably has probably already accessed this information and knows where in space along Destiny's course are the planets with Stargates on them. All he needs to do is either go through the Stargate, or fly the ship or contact the aliens whose ship it belongs to and have them take him to one of the locations on or in orbit near the planets along Destiny's course and drops him off.

Let’s look at the second two possibilities first.

Rush fixes the ship and flies it off to rejoin Destiny. I think this one is the least likely scenario as it would be a too easy and pat solution. SGU as shown it doesn’t like the quick fix.

Rush will gain access to the ship and somehow contact the aliens who built it. With their help he will be taken to the Destiny. This would be the most interesting solution to employ. If they do go this route, I think contact would be brief and mysterious. The taste of the aliens’ contact they provide us would set the show up for a great new story arc that would probably be introduced and developed in the next season.

Going through the Stargate would probably be the easiest method to get him back. Since the Destiny is on a preprogrammed route with set times for stops, the approximate projected arrival times at each planet are in the ship’s computer. Rush would likely be aware of them. All he has to do to return, is gate to the next planet on Destiny’s course and wait for the team to come through the gate. I would be surprised if Rush as a precaution didn't always brings a portable DHD with him in his pack.

Now for the juicy speculation:

Lets assume that Rush was aware of the schedule of Destiny’s future planet visits. Let us also assume that he declined to share this general information with others in order to give himself more power and control. Let us further assume that Eli on his own or better yet, under Colonel Young’s orders has found out this information. Learning and anticipating this schedule would be an extremely valuable bit of information to have. Foraging and other survival needs could be set up in advance. It is not much of a stretch that Young would have anticipated this need and asked Rush to look for it; he reports back and lies that he wasn’t able to access it. Since Young doesn’t trust Rush, it follows that he would ask Eli to see if he could find it and not tell Rush he was looking for it. Eli is a genius with computers, he could have either found the data himself or hacked into Rush’s encrypted files and found it that way.

Young knows about the planet’s visit schedule. He knows that Rush is aware of it but doesn’t know that he and Eli are also aware of it. What if Young and Eli concoct a plan to very badly scare Rush by abandoning him on the planet. Young could have planned to beat him unconscious and leave. After knocking him out he checks Rush’s backpack to be certain he has brought a portable DHD device with him and departs (he probably knew that it was Rush’s standard practice to always do so). Young would know that Rush has the ingenuity to figure out that he can gate to the next planet along Destiny’s course and rejoin them. Furthermore he would know that marooning him on a desert planet without supplies would scare the living crap out of him but that the actual risk to his life would be small. The assumption being that the next stop for the Destiny was within Rush’s projected survival time. Young could plan this as an object lesson to teach him what the consequences will be if he doesn’t straighten up and become a team player.

It is also possible that the data on the projected planets includes what resources are available on each planet and how far from the gate they are located. If a ship had the automated capacity to seed gates on habitable planets it would also likely follow it has the capacity to scan the planet and record the information. I bring this point up because Young may have determined that the next planet they were going to stop at was say several weeks away but had water and food in close proximity to the gate. Marooning Rush for a longer period of time would be a much better lesson as long as Young knew Rush would be able to survive. A human can’t go very long without water but they can go quite a while with little food. It certainly wouldn’t be pleasant for Rush but he would survive.

What do others think…?

[natyanayaki]

It is interesting that if this is a seed ship, why there is no data about where it has been. Did they seed with genetic material, or with real people? Did I miss the explanation some where? Is this ship somehow sentient, but damaged?

Rush said that he believes that nobody was aboard the ship before, and the Destiny he believe was supposed to colonize people...that the Ancients were going to use it as a transport vehicle to planet that had been seeded already, but that they probably ascended before they decided to go aboard the ship. What we don't know is if there could be other Destiny-like ships that are ahead of it, that may have colonized. And the thing is, even if there is a database on the Destiny the people aboard it don't have access to it.

Honestly, I don't think Eli would want to strand Rush, I don't think he approves of what he suspects Young did. I think up till now Eli was on team Young...but his alliances will slowly shift, so I don't think Eli would help Young in that plan. Also, I don't think Rush, Young or Eli know of the Destiny's plan...not yet. They haven't had enough access to the computers, and I do think whatever the Destiny's program was...that it was interrupted by the emergence of people. I do think it has a programmed course, but I think it's programmed so that it's priority are the people aboard, so I don't know if it would be all that predictable.

[Matt G]

Now for the juicy speculation:

Lets assume that Rush was aware of the schedule of Destiny’s future planet visits. Let us also assume that he declined to share this general information with others in order to give himself more power and control. Let us further assume that Eli on his own or better yet, under Colonel Young’s orders has found out this information. Learning and anticipating this schedule would be an extremely valuable bit of information to have. Foraging and other survival needs could be set up in advance. It is not much of a stretch that Young would have anticipated this need and asked Rush to look for it; he reports back and lies that he wasn’t able to access it. Since Young doesn’t trust Rush, it follows that he would ask Eli to see if he could find it and not tell Rush he was looking for it. Eli is a genius with computers, he could have either found the data himself or hacked into Rush’s encrypted files and found it that way.

Young knows about the planet’s visit schedule. He knows that Rush is aware of it but doesn’t know that he and Eli are also aware of it. What if Young and Eli concoct a plan to very badly scare Rush by abandoning him on the planet. Young could have planned to beat him unconscious and leave. After knocking him out he checks Rush’s backpack to be certain he has brought a portable DHD device with him and departs (he probably knew that it was Rush’s standard practice to always do so). Young would know that Rush has the ingenuity to figure out that he can gate to the next planet along Destiny’s course and rejoin them. Furthermore he would know that marooning him on a desert planet without supplies would scare the living crap out of him but that the actual risk to his life would be small. The assumption being that the next stop for the Destiny was within Rush’s projected survival time. Young could plan this as an object lesson to teach him what the consequences will be if he doesn’t straight up and become a team player.

It is also possible that the data on the projected planets includes what resources are available on each planet and how far from the gate they are located. If a ship had the capacity to automatically seed gates on habitable planets it would also likely follow it has the capacity to scan the planet and include this information. I bring this point up because Young may have determined that the next planet they were going to stop at was say several weeks away but had water and food in close proximity to the gate. Marooning Rush for a longer period of time would be a much better lesson as long as Young knew Rush would be able to survive. A human can’t go very long without water but they can go quite a while with little food. It certainly wouldn’t be pleasant for Rush but he would survive.

What do others think…?

Plausible. Still can't see Rush forgiving him for it though.

[Carter1994]

Now for the juicy speculation:
[...]

Huh. I'd say... improbable, just because of what I've read about future episodes. The idea itself isn't improbable, I just don't think TPTB considered it.

But personally, I love the idea. It would make Young's actions make a lot more sense, and it would entirely redeem him in my eyes (I'd even nominate it for a Crowning Moment of Awesome). It's a highly creative suggestion, and it's something I never would have thought of--and as far as I know, no one else has either (and I've read through the whole thread). Top marks!

Now, I do have one small issue with it. ...I'm not sure other gates can dial outside of Destiny's range. I know it sounds odd, but what I mean is this: every time Destiny drops out of FTL it normally connects to four or five gates, and locks out all but one. Now, in Air III it was confirmed that this can be overridden so they can go to a previously locked gate. However, (as far as I know) they can still only go to those specific planets. The range on these 'prototype gates' seems to be fairly limited, unless perhaps there's a master code or something that allows gate-travel between gates farther apart. So, if there is such a thing, and if Rush was able to crack it in time (I'd give him three days, tops), then I'd say, yeah. A highly probable situation that I could see happening if Universe were real. However, as it is in the hands of a TV show, I can't see it happening. Too bad, really... I prefer your idea to the one floating around in spoiler world... Hm.

[EllieVee]

That's a pity.
The route they're on seems...dead.

Which makes me wonder if the route they're on is actually the intended route or if it's changed for some reason. Or if the whole 'seeding life' thing is like that episode of SG-1 where the planet was going to be terraformed nevermind the people already there. The Ancients, it's all about them, so I can see them going 'That bit looks look for an in-ground swimming pool so whatever if the sand creatures die in the meantime.'

[Blackhole]

Huh. I'd say... improbable, just because of what I've read about future episodes. The idea itself isn't improbable, I just don't think TPTB considered it.

But personally, I love the idea. It would make Young's actions make a lot more sense, and it would entirely redeem him in my eyes (I'd even nominate it for a Crowning Moment of Awesome). It's a highly creative suggestion, and it's something I never would have thought of--and as far as I know, no one else has either (and I've read through the whole thread). Top marks!

Now, I do have one small issue with it. ...I'm not sure other gates can dial outside of Destiny's range. I know it sounds odd, but what I mean is this: every time Destiny drops out of FTL it normally connects to four or five gates, and locks out all but one. Now, in Air III it was confirmed that this can be overridden so they can go to a previously locked gate. However, (as far as I know) they can still only go to those specific planets. The range on these 'prototype gates' seems to be fairly limited, unless perhaps there's a master code or something that allows gate-travel between gates farther apart. So, if there is such a thing, and if Rush was able to crack it in time (I'd give him three days, tops), then I'd say, yeah. A highly probable situation that I could see happening if Universe were real. However, as it is in the hands of a TV show, I can't see it happening. Too bad, really... I prefer your idea to the one floating around in spoiler world... Hm.

Thanks very much for your compliments they are very gracious.

I agree that it probably won't play out that way either. Both parties hating each other’s guts make for very juicy drama and I have read the spoiler article floating around as well. For me at least, the reason I like this scenario better is because I liked Young’s character a lot. I respected him and thought he was doing his best to do a very difficult job. I can understand from his perspective why he marooned Rush and why he may have felt it necessary, but still, it was an extremely drastic and cold blooded measure. My scenario doesn't tarnish Young anywhere as much as leaving Rush to die does. I try to imagine what Jack O’Neill would have done had he been in Young’s shoes. Even given the desperation of the situation and how mutinous Rush was I don’t see him doing something so cold blooded. He would have found another way to deal with him.

I think this would be a good question if it hasn’t been asked already.

If Colonel Jack O’Neill from early Stargate days was in Colonel Young’s position, would he have made the same decision and marooned Rush?

What do others think?

[LtColCarter]

If Colonel Jack O’Neill from early Stargate days was in Colonel Young’s position, would he have made the same decision and marooned Rush?

What do others think?

Well, from what I've seen of Jack, I don't think he would have left Rush on the planet. I know he's tried to save people, even when they are against him.

[Replicator Todd]

Well, from what I've seen of Jack, I don't think he would have left Rush on the planet. I know he's tried to save people, even when they are against him.

Indeed, as Young as said many times "These are the wrong people, in the wrong place" including himself.

[natyanayaki]

Which makes me wonder if the route they're on is actually the intended route or if it's changed for some reason. Or if the whole 'seeding life' thing is like that episode of SG-1 where the planet was going to be terraformed nevermind the people already there. The Ancients, it's all about them, so I can see them going 'That bit looks look for an in-ground swimming pool so whatever if the sand creatures die in the meantime.'

I thought I was the only one who thought that of the Ancients.

Well, from what I've seen of Jack, I don't think he would have left Rush on the planet. I know he's tried to save people, even when they are against him.

I agree. He'd want to leave someone like Rush there, he'll be tempted to, and he'll almost do it...but in the end, he'll go back and get him out of there...

[EllieVee]

I thought I was the only one who thought that of the Ancients.

Nope, have thought that since SG-1. My summary per a fanfic: A group of thankfully dead or ascended people who spent much of their time creating weapons and viruses—what the hell sort of people do that as a hobby.

[natyanayaki]

Nope, have thought that since SG-1. My summary per a fanfic: A group of thankfully dead or ascended people who spent much of their time creating weapons and viruses—what the hell sort of people do that as a hobby.

It's always irritated me they they have a god-like status, on a series that was founded on debunking fake gods...LOL! I actually hope that SGU will re-analyze the perception on the Ancients, along with their "darker, edgier" stories. Which is why I would love it if the Destiny wasn't the first ship, and we do run into colonies of Ancients...I dunno, I guess I'm weird. Of all the races, the Ancients are the ones I'm least sad to know they're extinct...unlike some of the other races...like the Asgard! I miss Thor...I love that guy!

[Daro]

It's always irritated me they they have a god-like status, on a series that was founded on debunking fake gods...LOL! I actually hope that SGU will re-analyze the perception on the Ancients, along with their "darker, edgier" stories. Which is why I would love it if the Destiny wasn't the first ship, and we do run into colonies of Ancients...I dunno, I guess I'm weird. Of all the races, the Ancients are the ones I'm least sad to know they're extinct...unlike some of the other races...like the Asgard! I miss Thor...I love that guy!

Being completely and inexcusably ignorant of Stargate lore, the second half of what you said made little sense to me. I just know the Asgard are the little grey guys, righto?

Based on what little I know, I agree that the Ancients should be examined in SGU. Wouldn't Dr. Rush just have a complete field day if he got to talk to one? Still, they don't sound like the nicest people ever from what I've heard. But then again, neither are humans sometimes.
I'm all for bringing in aliens. Sure, SGU is a 'human' story. But aliens don't have to be incomprehensible. I don't want to see people with putty on otheir faces running around all the time, I like the idea of much more bizzare sentient beings, but there's a happy medium somewhere. Aliens that could not pass for human, who have differing physiology, but have human-like emotions in most regards. Like Christopher Johnson in District 9. Squid face, carapace, and all, you sympathized with him. More so than you could with his human co-star.