'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[Misfits]

Yes, that was clearly before he went nuts, or started to show his true colours.

Your opinion, and only that.

You don't know how Gen. O'Neill would view his decisions, and his opinion is the only one that counts.

[Yusagi]

First line is in reference to your post.

The second line is in reference to all previous posts that believe in ruling by committee.

And the last line is that no matter what you decide, you'll piss off somebody, so, do what you think is right and the hell with what anybody else thinks.

Oh, okay, np. But like you said, these people haven't signed up for the trip, or to follow Young (most of them). If choosing 15 people to survive would be unethical, then deciding folks' guilt and punishment all on his own is definitey unethical, as well.

Young can't be wishy-washy in public and then vindictive in private/when angry. That's a recipe for poor leadership and disaster.

[Deevil]

Your opinion, and only that.

You don't know how Gen. O'Neill would view his decisions, and his opinion is the only one that counts.

No it isn't, since Jack is a fictional character anaylising his actions and/or thought processes is what we do.

PS. Of course I am talking for myself, I have a disclaimer in my signature to prove it.

[Misfits]

They only had 80 people, there wasn't the luxury of a wide array of specific skills. They knew it was a small, uninhabited planet, likely with few resources. All they needed was the general survivability/leadership qualification to select 15 (17?) for. Much like he picked Scott and TJ.

Yeah, however, it could be barren and rocky, jungle type, or mostly watery, etc....
The people you pick may not be the best set of people suited for the environment that they would encounter.
They didn't have any concrete data. In absence of such data, you would be guessing, at best.

[Misfits]

Oh, okay, np. But like you said, these people haven't signed up for the trip, or to follow Young (most of them). If choosing 15 people to survive would be unethical, then deciding folks' guilt and punishment all on his own is definitey unethical, as well.

Young can't be wishy-washy in public and then vindictive in private/when angry. That's a recipe for poor leadership and disaster.

Quite the contrary. Picking 17 people without any hard data on the planet is one thing.

Dr. Rush's actions are specifically defined. He confessed to it, for crying out loud.

[Yusagi]

Yeah, however, it could be barren and rocky, jungle type, or mostly watery, etc....
The people you pick may not be the best set of people suited for the environment that they would encounter.
They didn't have any concrete data. In absence of such data, you would be guessing, at best.

Here's what I'm saying, though. They don't have anyone who would be especially good at any one enviroment and not another. With the exception of, perhaps, negligible differences in temperature tolerance. The most well equipped to survive on the Destiny very likely will be the most well-equipped no matter what the planet will be. The only exception would be if there were tech or civilization involved. In which case, ensure you bring along a scientist and a politically knowledgeable person--which one would expect you'd bring along anyway. Smartest, fittest, most skilled and likely to survive/form a settlement.

[Misfits]

No it isn't, since Jack is a fictional character anaylising his actions and/or thought processes is what we do.

PS. Of course I am talking for myself, I have a disclaimer in my signature to prove it.

Based on everything I have seen Gen. O'Neill do since the original Stargate movie, it is my opinion that he would approve.

[Yusagi]

Quite the contrary. Picking 17 people without any hard data on the planet is one thing.

Dr. Rush's actions are specifically defined. He confessed to it, for crying out loud.

Rush's actions were actually a little vague. We know he decided to frame him by putting the gun in Young's room, because he felt Young was incapable of command. He had no ill intentions toward Young other than deposing him.

Given that Young was accused of being out of line, Young should not have been the one to decide whether Rush's actions were justified, and certainly not how he should be punished if they weren't.

[Misfits]

Here's what I'm saying, though. They don't have anyone who would be especially good at any one enviroment and not another. With the exception of, perhaps, negligible differences in temperature tolerance. The most well equipped to survive on the Destiny very likely will be the most well-equipped no matter what the planet will be. The only exception would be if there were tech or civilization involved. In which case, ensure you bring along a scientist and a politically knowledgeable person--which one would expect you'd bring along anyway. Smartest, fittest, most skilled and likely to survive/form a settlement.

So, you pick mostly the military personnel and less of the civilians???
Especially when the civilians comprise the majority of the group?
Not the right call

[Deevil]

Based on everything I have seen Gen. O'Neill do since the original Stargate movie, it is my opinion that he would approve.

He would approve of Young beating up Telford?
He would approve of Young beating up Rush and Leaving him for dead?
He would approve of Young unilaterally ignoring scientists?
He would approve of Young not making hard decisions?
He would approve of Young, despite the fact that Young is clearly unstable?

The Jack that I have watched would never approve of these behaviours, nor would ha allow this person to remain in command when he is a danger.

[Yusagi]

So, you pick mostly the military personnel and less of the civilians???
Especially when the civilians comprise the majority of the group?
Not the right call

I never said that. Recall that most of the so-called civilians are actually brilliant scientists. 'Smartest' applies to them.

[Misfits]

Rush's actions were actually a little vague. We know he decided to frame him by putting the gun in Young's room, because he felt Young was incapable of command. He had no ill intentions toward Young other than deposing him.

Given that Young was accused of being out of line, Young should not have been the one to decide whether Rush's actions were justified, and certainly not how he should be punished if they weren't.

See, I believe in self defense.
What rush did was a direct attack on Col. Young. May be not so in Dr. Rush's mind and reasoning.
But, if I were Col. Young, I would take it as so.
And I would retaliate the same way, if not more so. I would have taken back his backpack.

[Yusagi]

See, I believe in self defense.
What rush did was a direct attack on Col. Young. May be not so in Dr. Rush's mind and reasoning.
But, if I were Col. Young, I would take it as so.
And I would retaliate the same way, if not more so. I would have taken back his backpack.

As to I. However, Rush attacked him indirectly he knew full well, and I Believe he said himself, that nothing would happen to Young. All he wanted was him out of command. Even in the trial, he justified Young's proposed actions.

With all due respect, and in all fairness, to my knowledge...you are not a Colonel, nor are you leading a desperate group of people with virtually absolute power.

[Misfits]

He would approve of Young beating up Telford?

Yes he would. Gen. O'Neill has threatened to do the exact same thing several times and had to be restrained a few times.

He would approve of Young beating up Rush and Leaving him for dead?

Yes he would.

He would approve of Young unilaterally ignoring scientists?

Yes he has.

He would approve of Young not making hard decisions?

Depends on what you call hard decisions.

He would approve of Young, despite the fact that Young is clearly unstable?

It's your opinion that Col. Young is unstable. However, when viewing all of his actions in context, Gen O'Neill may not reach the same conclusion as you did. In fact, it's my opinion that he would approve each and every decision.

The Jack that I have watched would never approve of these behaviours, nor would ha allow this person to remain in command when he is a danger.

My advice is that you should go back and watch everything again.

[Yusagi]

Yes he would. Gen. O'Neill has threatened to do the exact same thing several times and had to be restrained a few times.

Just because he's nearly lost control, doesn't mean he'd approve others doing it. I don't recall him hunting down and beating Kinsey up. I also don't remember him marooning anyone for framing him. He was sloppy about his sidearm at home, and his son died because of it. Do you think he'd approve of Young letting a loaded gun lie out around kids?

Just sayin.