'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[Deevil]

RIGHT! I'm not entirely convinced Franklin didn't have something to do with Young's framing, btw, we still don't know what's on the secret footage.

Good point, I didn't think of that at all.

I can understand that, but I do think she needed to be more tactful. Either inform Greer of the situation directly, or through someone else (Young, or Scott). Her choice not to inform Greer, and her "political" answer IMO showed her cowardice, and reminded me of Telford's actions in Eath.

I don't think there was any cowardice in her actions, nor do I think she needed to be more tactful. It was her job to make the decision, she doesn't have to explain why.

That being said, it may have been more prudent for her to have handled it differently, but that's a live and learn kind of thing.

I disagree, though she may have had legit concerns, she has also been shown to have a bias against him.

And yet I have seen nothing, not a bloody thing, that leads to that conclusion.

I do too. In fact, I think Chloe should be appointed leader, and Young, Wray and Rush should be "advisers."

No way, that would be a disaster. Chloe doesn't have enough respect from anyone to make that even close to working.

I'd have to see how it plays out, what exactly Greer finds out. I'd be very surprised if that's Greer's response.

I do agree with that. I don't think he would find that acceptable, mainly because he wasn't the one there making the decision. BUT, I believe Greer would do the exact same thing in the same situation because Greer cannot control himself well in those kinds of situations.

Like Rush, I don't think Young would volunteer to sit in the chair, at least not while he's healthy, Greer -healthy or not- would sacrifice himself, to get the crew home.

Well, it would be stupid for Rush to sit in the chair. Greer I believe would, but then again I don't believe it would ever be tested.

YOUNG is the issue.

Young is a issue, he is not the only one.

Greer doesn't have anger issues, if he did, he'd have done damage, but as I've said multiple times, he's controlled and acts in the best way he knows how...considering he's probably been in the marines his entire adult life, and he was raised by a soldier (potentially a marine), it makes sense that he'd only be able to think like a marine.

His actions are no emotionless, he is angry and just because he is a marine it doesn't excuse him believing the only way to solve a problem is with violence, threats of violence and intimidation.

But the fact is, Young is losing his marbles, but people don't know that he is. He's very good at hiding his issues, except in the scene in Light when he basically accused Rush, when TJ and Greer had to suggest that he let it go.

It's actually very obvious he is loosing his marbles, but no one is paying attention. That's a problem

YOUNG NEEDS TO BE EXPOSED!!!! For the benefit of the military personnel as well as all aboard the Destiny.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Right. I think the point of the guard was to prevent someone from being forced into sitting, not to prevent someone who chooses to sit.

Exactly, because even with a guard there, someone could have sat in the chair.

He's not the one thinking that, unfortunately too many people think like that :-/.

I know, but the sexism of the statement, no matter who makes it and how many people think this insanity is true, remains underwhelming.

I didn't think Greer committed mutiny, and I don't think Rush did. Any leader/ruler/commander, who is unfit to lead should be removed.

Agreed.

[nx01a]

We DO know what's on the secret footage, don't we? Rush coming in and taking the gun. Hence the Rush/Young confrontation and Young asking Eli to give him the only copy of the footage.
As for Frankie... I can't see him helping in the frame-up. He may have not liked the military very much [what with the whole shooting, despite his deserving it] but I doubt he would have helped. He was taken in by Rush's influences and assurances that the chair was safe. Stupid scientist. Eli Is Always Right.

[O'Neil]

I said it once for the Pilot episode, and ill say it again.....

Most, (if not all) of the crew have some very bad mental problems. Most of them are full of anger, rage, jealousy, etc... And they all want to be in charge.

Now heres where things get interesting..... Take the crew, add in some anger, 2 cups of strife, a teaspoon of jealousy, a half quart of stupidity, a gallon of ignorance, 5 bags of emotions, and just a very small pinch of intelligence....

Bake it on high at 450° for a week inside of a ancient ship, and what you'll end up with is a large clump of crap on the verge of a mutiny.


With that being said, someone needs to take Wray, shove her into a tube, and shoot her into the nearest star.

[EllieVee]

We DO know what's on the secret footage, don't we? Rush coming in and taking the gun. Hence the Rush/Young confrontation and Young asking Eli to give him the only copy of the footage.
As for Frankie... I can't see him helping in the frame-up. He may have not liked the military very much [what with the whole shooting, despite his deserving it] but I doubt he would have helped. He was taken in by Rush's influences and assurances that the chair was safe. Stupid scientist. Eli Is Always Right.

Rush didn't say the chair was safe, he said he thought it was likely to be less bad than the Milky Way ones.

[Saquist]

There have been MANY competent, even brilliant, women commanders in sci-fi or real life scenarios. So, to categorizing women as poor commanders would be irrational.

That said, Ms. Wray is not fit to lead. Too naive and biased.

I want to give her a try...because the crap between Rush and Young is retarded...

I disagree. To label someone indispensable is to give that person a blank check to do whatever that person wants to do. In effect, putting them above the law.

They can be indispensable with consequences...
You can hog tie them in a chair while Eli reads the consoles to him.

One of the reasons that he is a bad leader. If someone challenges your authority - you do not get to put them down like a lame horse.

Amazingly this actually works for me.

He's not the one thinking that, unfortunately too many people think like that :-/.

Gracias.

I said it once for the Pilot episode, and ill say it again.....

Most, (if not all) of the crew have some very bad mental problems. Most of them are full of anger, rage, jealousy, etc... And they all want to be in charge.

Now heres where things get interesting..... Take the crew, add in some anger, 2 cups of strife, a teaspoon of jealousy, a half quart of stupidity, a gallon of ignorance, 5 bags of emotions, and just a very small pinch of intelligence....

Bake it on high at 450° for a week inside of a ancient ship, and what you'll end up with is a large clump of crap on the verge of a mutiny.


With that being said, someone needs to take Wray, shove her into a tube, and shoot her into the nearest star.

I like the gallon of ignorance...gives that tart taste...

[natyanayaki]

Fine. Evensies.

I really was impressed by Chloe this episode... and I was reminded why I dislike Wray. Seeing her with her gf was so touching and I warmed to her. It's so odd and hypocritical for someone who obviously gets flack about her lesbian relationship [esp. from her parents] to turn around and be so blindly against someone [Greer mostly, but also Young this episode]. Her complete inability to judge human resource potential is hilarious. No wonder the IOA kept passing her over for things.

I disliked Chloe less, but I couldn't like her. I have a feeling that the actor's method doesn't gel with the way I watch characters though. In theory I love the way she stood up to Wray, but I thought it came off as whiny.

I do agree with that. I don't think he would find that acceptable, mainly because he wasn't the one there making the decision. BUT, I believe Greer would do the exact same thing in the same situation because Greer cannot control himself well in those kinds of situations.

I don't think Greer would react the same way, I think he would beat Rush, possible severely injure him to get his point across, get Rush to fall unconscious then carry him to the Gate. Greer may not like Rush, but Greer's judgment isn't so cloudy that he doesn't realize how useful Rush is, hoe much Rush is needed. I do understand why someone would think Greer would make the same moves. And if Greer learns the whole truth, I don't think he'd find it acceptable at all, but there are ways to color stories, I think it would depend on what is revealed and who reveals it. If Young tells Greer, I have no doubt that Young would tell him half the story, to get manipulate Greer to his side.

Young is a issue, he is not the only one.

I meant to say the main issue among the military personnel.

His actions are no emotionless, he is angry and just because he is a marine it doesn't excuse him believing the only way to solve a problem is with violence, threats of violence and intimidation.

I disagree. He uses violence but doesn't use his anger. I don't think his methods are the best methods, but I do think those are the methods he knows, and those are his best tools. And IMO, an overly-angry-emotional-violent person, uses violence for personal gain. So far, Greer has not used violence for only his benefit. Young, is a totally different story.

I know, but the sexism of the statement, no matter who makes it and how many people think this insanity is true, remains underwhelming.

I know. I went to a competitive and VERY LIBERAL high school, my last year there, we polled our Statistics class, only one man thought a woman could lead, in fact only a handful of women thought so. And though it was only high school, it was relevant as all students were of voting age. It's very saddening.

We DO know what's on the secret footage, don't we? Rush coming in and taking the gun. Hence the Rush/Young confrontation and Young asking Eli to give him the only copy of the footage.
As for Frankie... I can't see him helping in the frame-up. He may have not liked the military very much [what with the whole shooting, despite his deserving it] but I doubt he would have helped. He was taken in by Rush's influences and assurances that the chair was safe. Stupid scientist. Eli Is Always Right.

Well, we didn't see it, and nothing was said about it. It seems that that's what the footage contains, but we don't know where the writers will go. For all we know, something else is completely in the footage, which is why Young wants it removed. He could claim what's on the footage, people will believe him, but we don't know what was actually on it. I hope the writers will eventually show it to us. Regarding Franklin, I think it's highly possible that he helped. He distrusts the military, Young believes he's harmless, but I don't trust Young's judgment, and I don't think anyone on a show with this format is actually harmless. In addition to his bias against the military, Franklin did have a bias against Spencer, and could have been near the vicinity of Spencer's room for a related matter. And if Franklin did help frame Young, it's not a big leap that his own guilt, or a similar emotion, could lead him to sitting into the chair. It's a long shot, but it's not immediately expected. I don't trust the writers enough yet to think they'd come up with something that creative, but I do hope that they did; I hope the secret footage is NOT easily figured out.

[Deevil]

I disliked Chloe less, but I couldn't like her. I have a feeling that the actor's method doesn't gel with the way I watch characters though. In theory I love the way she stood up to Wray, but I thought it came off as whiny.

I didn't see the whine in the way she stood up to Wray. That might be a perception thing.

I don't think Greer would react the same way, I think he would beat Rush, possible severely injure him to get his point across, get Rush to fall unconscious then carry him to the Gate. Greer may not like Rush, but Greer's judgment isn't so cloudy that he doesn't realize how useful Rush is, hoe much Rush is needed.

I actually agree with this!

I meant to say the main issue among the military personnel.

He is def. the most present and overriding issue.

I disagree. He uses violence but doesn't use his anger. I don't think his methods are the best methods, but I do think those are the methods he knows, and those are his best tools. And IMO, an overly-angry-emotional-violent person, uses violence for personal gain.

Ahh, but you see, an angry person doesn't always act without something that resembles control.

So far, Greer has not used violence for only his benefit. Young, is a totally different story.

But, he has used intimidation for his own benefit. And the way he treated Rush on Planet in Air was not for anyone elses benefit either.

I know. I went to a competitive and VERY LIBERAL high school, my last year there, we polled our Statistics class, only one man thought a woman could lead, in fact only a handful of women thought so. And though it was only high school, it was relevant as all students were of voting age. It's very saddening.

That's so very sad. Talk about buying into BS.

[natyanayaki]

I didn't see the whine in the way she stood up to Wray. That might be a perception thing.

It is a perception thing, I don't like the way Chloe is being played, Elyse is probably doing a great job, but it doesn't gel with the way I watch the character, if that makes sense.

Ahh, but you see, an angry person doesn't always act without something that resembles control.

That's true, but I think when Greer's emotions are getting ahead of him, he pushes them back so that only the task is at the forefront of his mind. You can see it in his entire demeanor, esp the way Jamil plays Greer.

But, he has used intimidation for his own benefit. And the way he treated Rush on Planet in Air was not for anyone elses benefit either.

Intimidation yes, violence no. I think there's a difference. And his actions on the planet for Rush was a mere few hours after Rush had stranded them on the ship, so IMO those actions are more understandable. And I think one could easily make a case that his actions were for Rush's benefit, trying to get him to move along, rather than standing in one place in the dry hot sun. But again, that's my opinion and it's heavily based on how Greer is played. I understand different opinions, I just disagree with them . I tend to defend Greer because so far he's the only primary character who not only do I find interesting, and appreciate the way he's played by the actor, but who because of some of his qualities I actually like. :-D

[Misfits]

And he doesn't deserve to be leader anymore. Stranding someone on a planet without supplies it tantamount to murder.

A murderer doesn't deserve to lead, as he is not the judge, jury and executioner. It just shows how much closer he is coming to enacting martial law... and that is unacceptable.

if Col. Young wanted to rule by force, he would have done it already. He stopped Sgt. Greer, and told Lt. Scott that he won't rule the ship by force.

Judge, jury, and the executioner would apply if he actually killed Dr. Rush, which he didn't. He marooned Dr. Rush on the planet.

[Deevil]

if Col. Young wanted to rule by force, he would have done it already. He stopped Sgt. Greer, and told Lt. Scott that he won't rule the ship by force.

So, his actions with Rush is what? A friendly debate?

Judge, jury, and the executioner would apply if he actually killed Dr. Rush, which he didn't. He marooned Dr. Rush on the planet.

Which without supplies is tantamount to attempting to murder him. He left him to die.

[natyanayaki]

Judge, jury, and the executioner would apply if he actually killed Dr. Rush, which he didn't. He marooned Dr. Rush on the planet.

If Rush dies, it's murder. Since he's the star, we know he won't die; therefore it's attempted murder.

[Misfits]

So, his actions with Rush is what? A friendly debate?

A forceful confrontation.

Which without supplies is tantamount to attempting to murder him. He left him to die.

Tantamount to attempting to murder him is not murder.

Besides we don't know what was inside the alien ship. It may have supplies. If Dr. Rush was able to get the Stargate working and connect to another planet, then he could procure supplies. Many possibilities, which aren't possible if Col. Young actually kills Dr. Rush.

[Misfits]

If Rush dies, it's murder. Since he's the star, we know he won't die; therefore it's attempted murder.

If Dr. Rush doesn't die, it's attempted marooning. ;-)

[Deevil]

A forceful confrontation.

This ruling by force.

Tantamount to attempting to murder him is not murder.

Besides we don't know what was inside the alien ship. It may have supplies. If Dr. Rush was able to get the Stargate working and connect to another planet, then he could procure supplies. Many possibilities, which aren't possible if Col. Young actually kills Dr. Rush.

Young left Rush to die - there is no way to talk around this. It is just what happened. How Rush survives doesn't absolve Young of his actions. He beat up Rush and left him on a planet, alone, without supplies... to well, you guessed it die. The fact that Rush is unliekly to die is just unfortunate for Young.

[Lahela]

NOBODY is above the law, and if that person won't accept that,

then, that person must be eliminated for the good of the group.

First of all. Col. Telford deserved a beating for messing with his wife.

Sgt. Spencer was grabbed and pushed against the wall in order to stop him from further menacing Dr. Franklyn. At no time did Col. Young strike him.

As for Dr. Rush, he also deserved a beating. And he eliminated a person who was going to be a menace to the crew.

And you accuse others of having double standards?!

And for what it's worth, if you locked someone in a cupboard with no food or water and walked away forever, you would be charged with attempted murder if they survived, or murder if they died. That's basically what Young did to Rush, only it was a planet in the middle of a distant galaxy, instead of a cupboard.