'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[Deevil]

Really? Hmmmm.

I don't know about you, however, for me, the above scenes show that Col. Young has an uncanny feel for politics, and has put the good of the crew ahead of himself.

Call it a moment of temporary lucidity. It didn't last...

As for putting the crew ahead of himself. I'm not sure leaving Rush for dead does that. Actually, I know it doesn't.

All because Ms. Wray decided to do thing different than Col. Young.

Well, I'd say it's a good thing that she doesn't act like Young. Furthermore, her ability to take responsibility for actions, even if she wasn't directly responsible, makes her a good leader.

Yeah, that doesn't show she segregated anyone due to personal bias. NOT.

No it doesn't. It shows that Wray had, at the time, a legitimate concern and took acts to deal with it.

That has nothing to do with personal bias.

I don't think so. In fact, Sgt. Greer would be surprised that Col. Young didn't outright kill Dr. Rush.

And if Greer says anything to that end, I will loose whatever respect I have for the man.

The punishment for mutiny is death, and Sgt. Greer knows that very well.
Don't you remember Sgt. Greer pointing his rifle at Sgt. Spencer after he knocked him down and out in "Light"?

If I were on the ship, I'd start a mutiny against Young too. He is a concern, unstable and frankly inept.

[Lahela]

First of all, It's Col. Young's opinion that Col. Telford had it coming, which tells me that Col. Telford pushed Sgt. Greer too far.

I seriously doubt that no matter how much Young thought Telford had it coming that it is acceptable in the US military to deck a superior officer. Young's support of Greer's actions and his own violence against Telford (using someone else's body to do it) show scant regard for the rules by which he is supposed to live. This, among other things, makes him unfit for leadership IMO.

[Misfits]

As for putting the crew ahead of himself. I'm not sure leaving Rush for dead does that. Actually, I know it doesn't.

Really? I guess someone should ask Dr. Franklyn. Like the "Time" episode, if Dr. Rush was marooned at the beginning of the episode, instead of the end, Dr. Franklyn wouldn't be in a coma.

Well, I'd say it's a good thing that she doesn't act like Young. Furthermore, her ability to take responsibility for actions, even if she wasn't directly responsible, makes her a good leader.

If she was more competent, it wouldn't have come to that.

No it doesn't. It shows that Wray had, at the time, a legitimate concern and took acts to deal with it.
That has nothing to do with personal bias.

What legitimate concern? Her suspicion of Sgt. Greer was BEFORE the gun was found in Col. Young's quarters.
Her actions against Sgt. Greer were AFTER Col. Young ceded control to her AFTER the evidentiary hearing.

What's her legitimate concern?

So, if Ms. Wray carried her bias against Sgt. Greer, then she's unfit.
So, she makes unilateral decisions based sorely on her bias and you think this is good?

If I were on the ship, I'd start a mutiny against Young too. He is a concern, unstable and frankly inept.

If you were on the ship and your name is Dr. Franklyn, you would be comatose. And if Dr. Rush was still on the ship, your name would eventually come up for sacrifice. Good luck.

[EllieVee]

Really? I guess someone should ask Dr. Franklyn. Like the "Time" episode, if Dr. Rush was marooned at the beginning of the episode, instead of the end, Dr. Franklyn wouldn't be in a coma.

Franklin, whose choice it was to sit in the chair against Rush's orders. The Rush haters keep trying to put that one on him and it doesn't fly. Franklin's an adult, he made a choice.

If you were on the ship and your name is Dr. Franklyn, you would be comatose. And if Dr. Rush was still on the ship, your name would eventually come up for sacrifice. Good luck.

Franklin put himself in a coma.

[MattSilver 3k]

Franklin, whose choice it was to sit in the chair against Rush's orders. The Rush haters keep trying to put that one on him and it doesn't fly. Franklin's an adult, he made a choice.

Franklin put himself in a coma.

In the Rush haters' defence, Franklin could've been helped along by Rush... That's more of an ambiguous thing that could be discussed later on. Young, being king of the Rush hatedom, immediately thought of that.

[Deevil]

Really? I guess someone should ask Dr. Franklyn. Like the "Time" episode, if Dr. Rush was marooned at the beginning of the episode, instead of the end, Dr. Franklyn wouldn't be in a coma.

Really? Since when did Rush force him, ask or order him to do it?

Franklyn still would have ended up in the coma because he still would have done what he did no matter what.

If she was more competent, it wouldn't have come to that.

It really wasn't her fault to begin with.

What's her legitimate concern?

a) That he had something to do with the murder. Technically, he still could have been a suspect.

b) Greer's loyalty to Young.

Both very legitmate concerns.

So, if Ms. Wray carried her bias against Sgt. Greer, then she's unfit.
So, she makes unilateral decisions based sorely on her bias and you think this is good?

She didn't act out of any bias, I clearly stated that.

If you were on the ship and your name is Dr. Franklyn, you would be comatose. And if Dr. Rush was still on the ship, your name would eventually come up for sacrifice. Good luck.

Someone needs to challenge the control of the military on that ship, because they are for the most part unfit to lead them... and unfit to make decisions for them all.

There will be a fight for control on the ship, and I hope Young looses.

[Misfits]

I seriously doubt that no matter how much Young thought Telford had it coming that it is acceptable in the US military to deck a superior officer. Young's support of Greer's actions and his own violence against Telford (using someone else's body to do it) show scant regard for the rules by which he is supposed to live. This, among other things, makes him unfit for leadership IMO.

Just so that we're both clear,

LATER. Young and Greer are walking along a corridor.
YOUNG: ... and while I don't condone behaviour of that kind in any way, shape or form, I-I've gotta say ... the look on Telford's face when you put him down was priceless! Complete and total shock!
GREER: He was surprised, yes, sir!
(They both chuckle.)
YOUNG: I guess you can say you even got away with it.
(Greer stops, his face sad.)
GREER: Just, uh, sorry that I - that I disappointed you, sir.
YOUNG: You're a good man, Sergeant, I know that. Besides, the ******* had it coming.

Leadership also requires that you're willing to resolve matters without taking it to your superior at all instances.
Col. Young running to Gen. O'Neill to complain about Col. Telford would have been totally stupid. He would lose the respect of his men.

[Misfits]

Franklin, whose choice it was to sit in the chair against Rush's orders. The Rush haters keep trying to put that one on him and it doesn't fly. Franklin's an adult, he made a choice.

Just how naive are you?

[Misfits]

In the Rush haters' defence, Franklin could've been helped along by Rush... That's more of an ambiguous thing that could be discussed later on. Young, being king of the Rush hatedom, immediately thought of that.

Just so that we're clear on this, hopefully for the last time.

Not long afterwards, the doors to the Chair Room open and Rush leads his team inside. Franklin takes his first look at the Chair.
FRANKLIN: This is it?
RUSH: This is it.
VOLKER: Very impressive - I mean, as far as chairs go.
RUSH: Well, time will tell, I suppose.
PARK: So you sit in the Chair and it downloads the secrets of the universe into your head?
WALLACE: And then you die.
RUSH: Not necessarily, Eli.
BRODY: Every time it's ever been tried ... (he holds his finger and thumb a short distance apart) ... this close to death.
FRANKLIN: Who's tried it?
RUSH: General O'Neill, for one.
FRANKLIN: And he survived.
BRODY: We don't have a little grey alien to set things right this time.
RUSH: No, we don't, but this is an earlier model of that same device, possibly a prototype built very early in their evolution.
WALLACE: In my experience, the 1.0 version's usually the most bug-y.
RUSH: It's also the simplest.
FRANKLIN: Maybe it's really simple. Maybe it just tells you how to fly the ship.
RUSH: Well, I'm sure it's a bit more than that, but your point is well made. It's knowledge of the ship we need. If we're to survive - or, for that matter, get back to Earth one day - then I'm convinced that this Chair is the only way to do that.
PARK: Maybe there's a way of choosing what information gets downloaded.
BRODY: Or maybe it's just a matter of slowing down the download so it can be cut off.
RUSH: There's only one way to find out.

Nowhere in that scene does Dr. Rush tell the group that they are NOT to sit in it.

In fact, he's minimizing any danger and stressing the need for someone to try it.

[EllieVee]

In the Rush haters' defence, Franklin could've been helped along by Rush... That's more of an ambiguous thing that could be discussed later on. Young, being king of the Rush hatedom, immediately thought of that.

I'm quite sure Young, had he not beaten Rush and left him to die, would have managed to get everyone to blame Rush for Franklin. After all, he screamed in his face that it was Rush's fault. Young's spent a great deal of time undermining Rush and it happened from the beginning.

[EllieVee]

Just so that we're clear on this, hopefully for the last time.

Hardly.

Nowhere in that scene does Dr. Rush tell the group that they are NOT to sit in it.

In fact, he's minimizing any danger and stressing the need for someone to try it.

And yet he specifically says to Young that they had orders not to sit in the chair. Do you not think that's easily checked?

[Misfits]

Really? Since when did Rush force him, ask or order him to do it?
Franklyn still would have ended up in the coma because he still would have done what he did no matter what.
It really wasn't her fault to begin with.

So her removeval of the guard that Col. Young placed at the chair had nothing to do with it, right.

[EllieVee]

So her removeval of the guard that Col. Young placed at the chair had nothing to do with it, right.

Which, again, has to do with Franklin. Not Rush.

[Misfits]

a) That he had something to do with the murder. Technically, he still could have been a suspect.
b) Greer's loyalty to Young.

If Ms. Wray still suspected Sgt. Greer, the, Col. Young should still be in charge.
The way she makes her decisions, nobody would be loyal to her, EVER.

[Deevil]

Just so that we're clear on this, hopefully for the last time.

We've seen the episode, I think we are clear with teh going's on in it.

Nowhere in that scene does Dr. Rush tell the group that they are NOT to sit in it.

In fact, he's minimizing any danger and stressing the need for someone to try it.

Yes, but where does he say for anyone that ehy should use it? Where does he pull Franklin aside and tell him that he should use it?

So her removeval of the guard that Col. Young placed at the chair had nothing to do with it, right.

Not particularly, no. Personally, I thought having the guard there in the first place was a waste of resources... but, whatever.

BUT, at least she has the guts to stand up and admit when she believes she is wrong.