'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[Misfits]

"were" past tense, but we don't know what he thinks of Young now or what he'll think of Young after he finds out about Telford, Rush and his affair with a lower ranking officer who was under his command.

You're mixing apples and oranges. Whether Col. Young has made poor choices personally, does not detract from his professional ability, IMO.

Gen. O'Neill, obviously regards very highly Col. Young's ability to lead. Any instance of personal failing won't change that.

Remember that Gen. O'Neill, himself, had personal feeling for a direct subordinate, Cpt./Maj. Carter.

The fact that Col. Young and his wife are working through this difficulty is a plus.

[natyanayaki]

You're mixing apples and oranges. Whether Col. Young has made poor choices personally, does not detract from his professional ability, IMO.

Gen. O'Neill, obviously regards very highly Col. Young's ability to lead. Any instance of personal failing won't change that.

Remember that Gen. O'Neill, himself, had personal feeling for a direct subordinate, Cpt./Maj. Carter.

The fact that Col. Young and his wife are working through this difficulty is a plus.

He regarded Young highly, again we don't know what he would think now. And neither of us can say for sure that his personal decisions wouldn't change O'Neill's opinion of him. Some of his personal decisions reflect on his professional career (punching Telford, having an affair with an officer under his command). And his personal, he stress from it along with the stress of his job is affecting his professional life. And you may think that Young "working" on his marriage is a plus, but I do not. There's not indication that he'll return home, he's been hounding his wife, who has had enough, to be with him; I found it very manipulative, in fact I wonder if emotional abuse was involved in the marriage, actually I don't care enough about Young's personal life to wonder, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was emotionally abusive.

[Misfits]

He regarded Young highly, again we don't know what he would think now. And neither of us can say for sure that his personal decisions wouldn't change O'Neill's opinion of him. Some of his personal decisions reflect on his professional career (punching Telford, having an affair with an officer under his command). And his personal, he stress from it along with the stress of his job is affecting his professional life. And you may think that Young "working" on his marriage is a plus, but I do not. There's not indication that he'll return home, he's been hounding his wife, who has had enough, to be with him; I found it very manipulative, in fact I wonder if emotional abuse was involved in the marriage, actually I don't care enough about Young's personal life to wonder, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was emotionally abusive.

Yes he did regard Col. Young highly. There's no evidence that Gen. O'Neill has any knowledge of Col. Yong's personal failings. Therefore, his opinion wouldn't have changed.
As for physically confronting another officer under these circumstances wouldn't change his opinion at all. Gen. O'Neill has past experiences that made him act outside of strict military code. And as such, he would look at the action in context.
Based on Col. Telford's actions, it wouldn't surprise me if Gen. O'Neill punched Col. Telford himself.

The only emotional "abuse" would be that he had an affair. It is his wife that's abusing him.

EMILY: I love you.
(She puts her mouth near his ear.)
EMILY: But I can't wait any more.

You married a career military man, and yet, you want him to quit before he's ready to retire. How abusive is that?

[natyanayaki]

You married a career military man, and yet, you want him to quit before he's ready to retire. How abusive is that?

After he cheated on her, I'd say he owes her something for her to give him a chance. And regardless, the fact that he won't let her go, at least until he might have a reasonable reason to think he'll be able to get home, to me is manipulative. If he loves her, if he knows he's caused her pain in the past, and if she's expressed that she's tired of dealing with it, why not let her go? I thought it was very manipulative for him to go back to her house, after she told him she's done. That's JMO.

[Misfits]

After he cheated on her, I'd say he owes her something for her to give him a chance. And regardless, the fact that he won't let her go, at least until he might have a reasonable reason to think he'll be able to get home, to me is manipulative. If he loves her, if he knows he's caused her pain in the past, and if she's expressed that she's tired of dealing with it, why not let her go? I thought it was very manipulative for him to go back to her house, after she told him she's done. That's JMO.

That's not true. There were times when he was just about to give up, and she relented.

Welcome to reality, my friend. Love makes people do the craziest things.
Is their relationship ideal?, NO.
Does he still love her? YES.
Does she still love him? YES.
He's several billion light years away from home. Talk about long-distance relationship, this beats them all.
Basically, they love each other, however it may not be workable. Should they realize it and end it? YES.
Will they? Ask the show writers. This may be too juicy for them to let go.
They're both in a no-win situation, however, neither one will let go.

[EllieVee]

Yes he did regard Col. Young highly. There's no evidence that Gen. O'Neill has any knowledge of Col. Yong's personal failings. Therefore, his opinion wouldn't have changed.
As for physically confronting another officer under these circumstances wouldn't change his opinion at all. Gen. O'Neill has past experiences that made him act outside of strict military code. And as such, he would look at the action in context.

O'Neill wasn't overly impressed with Young in Earth, though.

[Deevil]

I do think we need Young to step down as the leader of the Destiny, he just isn't mentally or emotionally capable of actually leading.

I also think, even if Rush was still there - he has the exact same problems.

Wray is the best choice. She doesn't have an immediate allegence to any particular side. She is the only person with any kind of authority who seems to want to get home physically - not just through the stones. And I think, as a general whole, she can get everyone working more cohesively.

As for her blaming Greer for the murder. With Greer's anger problem and the way he has turned to violence, it was an understandable assumption to make.

[natyanayaki]

I do think we need Young to step down as the leader of the Destiny, he just isn't mentally or emotionally capable of actually leading.

I also think, even if Rush was still there - he has the exact same problems.

Wray is the best choice. She doesn't have an immediate allegence to any particular side. She is the only person with any kind of authority who seems to want to get home physically - not just through the stones. And I think, as a general whole, she can get everyone working more cohesively.

As for her blaming Greer for the murder. With Greer's anger problem and the way he has turned to violence, it was an understandable assumption to make.

Greer uses violence as a tool to get a message across, but he keeps his anger, his emotions at bay. Many people with military experience have pointed out that Greer is characteristically very realistic.

I don't think Wray is any better than Rush or Young; I think either someone should be chosen to lead, and thus be able to hear Rush, Wray and Young out, or there needs to be a representative of each branch military, science and civilian to start a three-part leadership council.

[Deevil]

Greer uses violence as a tool to get a message across, but he keeps his anger, his emotions at bay. Many people with military experience have pointed out that Greer is characteristically very realistic.

If he kept his emotions at bay, he wouldn't resort to the violence he does. Nor would he use his physical presence to intimidate those who he happens to get cheesed off at.

I don't think Wray is any better than Rush or Young; I think either someone should be chosen to lead, and thus be able to hear Rush, Wray and Young out, or there needs to be a representative of each branch military, science and civilian to start a three-part leadership council.

Wray is hte best choice. She can listen to both Rush and Young and then make a decision which is best. A 3 way council will get them no where, because Rush and Young just cannot get along.

Kind of obvious since Young left Rush to die.

[Lahela]

*blows raspberry at Jel*

I do think we need Young to step down as the leader of the Destiny, he just isn't mentally or emotionally capable of actually leading.

I also think, even if Rush was still there - he has the exact same problems.

Wray is the best choice. She doesn't have an immediate allegence to any particular side. She is the only person with any kind of authority who seems to want to get home physically - not just through the stones. And I think, as a general whole, she can get everyone working more cohesively.

As for her blaming Greer for the murder. With Greer's anger problem and the way he has turned to violence, it was an understandable assumption to make.

ITA about Wray - she's the only one with authority on the ship who doesn't belong to a "side" (i.e. military or scientific) so is the one who is more likely to act without any underlying motive other than to get home.

I do think she jumped the gun with the accusation of Greer, but presumably she is privy to the whole story of what happened between him and Telford on Icarus, so perhaps she has profiled him based on that.

[natyanayaki]

If he kept his emotions at bay, he wouldn't resort to the violence he does. Nor would he use his physical presence to intimidate those who he happens to get cheesed off at.

He uses violence because he was trained to use his violence. If he his actions were ruled by his emotions then he'd do a lot more damage than he has done, instead, every push, shove, kick, shot etc is controlled and planned.

Wray is hte best choice. She can listen to both Rush and Young and then make a decision which is best.

I don't disagree that if the only option is one out of three of them to lead; however, as per this episode, it seemed she was highly overwhelmed, made decisions without having the stones to execute them properly, and she was happy to give command over to Young. Either someone else has to be chosen, and each faction should be represented, or there needs to be some division of power. In fact, a division would probably be the best decision period, no one person has been shown to consider the the needs of each separate section of the Destiny crew.

[Deevil]

He uses violence because he was trained to use his violence. If he his actions were ruled by his emotions then he'd do a lot more damage than he has done, instead, every push, shove, kick, shot etc is controlled and planned.

He uses violence because he can. He uses violence because he is angry and doesn't like to be questioned. Just like he uses the threat of it.

He is no where near as in control of his emotions as people say he is. If he was, he wouldn't feel the need to confront or act out that he does.

In fact, a division would probably be the best decision period, no one person has been shown to consider the the needs of each separate section of the Destiny crew.

Division of power wouldn't work either. That'll just land us back where we are.

Wray should be in charge. She should be supported for this... because she is the only person who has a reasonable ability to control the scientists and military without bias.

[natyanayaki]

He uses violence because he can. He uses violence because he is angry and doesn't like to be questioned. Just like he uses the threat of it.

He is no where near as in control of his emotions as people say he is. If he was, he wouldn't feel the need to confront or act out that he does.



Division of power wouldn't work either. That'll just land us back where we are.

Wray should be in charge. She should be supported for this... because she is the only person who has a reasonable ability to control the scientists and military without bias.

I disagree on both claims .

[Misfits]

O'Neill wasn't overly impressed with Young in Earth, though.

I disagree.

Sure, at the beginning, Gen. O'Neill was perturbed that Col. Young wouldn't follow a direct order, however, by the end of the episode, he realized that Col. Young was right to be cautious all along, and granted Col. Young's request for personal visits for Destiny's crew via the stones, over the reservations of Mr. Strom, the IOA representative present at the meeting.

Therefore, his opinion of Col. Young actually went up, if anything.

[Misfits]

I do think we need Young to step down as the leader of the Destiny, he just isn't mentally or emotionally capable of actually leading.

I also think, even if Rush was still there - he has the exact same problems.

Wray is the best choice. She doesn't have an immediate allegence to any particular side. She is the only person with any kind of authority who seems to want to get home physically - not just through the stones. And I think, as a general whole, she can get everyone working more cohesively.

As for her blaming Greer for the murder. With Greer's anger problem and the way he has turned to violence, it was an understandable assumption to make.

I disagree. Col. Young is the perfect person to lead the crew. He has shown a remarkable understanding of the politics involved in leading the crew.

Dr. Rush has proven that he doesn't place enough concern for each human life, and is totally reckless, putting the crew in unnecessary risk.

As for Ms. Wray, she is too naive to occupy such a position and has shown a willingness to segregate people based on her bias, which disqualifies her altogether.