'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[natyanayaki]

I wanna know when is Camille Wray going to apologize to Sgt. Greer for suspecting him of being the killer?

Ms. Wray has shown that she has a problem with Sgt. Greer from the start, culminating with the killer suspicion.

I would think she owes him at least an apology.

Not just Greer, but also the marines she removed essentially because of their assumed loyalty to Greer.

What's sad is she is now the most sane authority figure on the ship.

She may be sane, but I don't think she's any more suited for that kind of authority. She seems too "green" if that makes sense.

As she stated in "Earth", she was passed over 4 times for promotion and "Justice" showed why she is so lacking.

I agree. Like Young, I think she thinks too highly of herself (just not to the same extant that Young does).

Well, let's see. Ms. Wray gets played by Dr. Rush, so easily that it was comical.

Which leads to a comatose Dr. Franklyn. If Dr. Rush was allowed to continue sacrificing other people every time he deemed it necessary, she'll eventually run out of people.

She let's her unfounded personal bias of Sgt. Greer dictate her actions, brewing distrust from the exact people that she would have to rely on for protection.

She's dividing people into separate groups instead of promoting unity. Such a smart thing to do as a leader, NOT.

Well said.

[Misfits]

Like Young, I think she thinks too highly of herself (just not to the same extant that Young does).

I don't agree that Col. Young thinks too highly of himself. However, Gen. O'Neill thinks very highly of him. Col. Young was his first choice to lead the Expedition team. So, obviously, he has accomplished good things in the past as well as led teams successfully.

I see Col. Young as someone who did not sign up for this. Yet, he's doing the best that he can since he's been thrust into this position.

Col. Young signed up to lead the Icarus base, with a finite time period because he wanted to get back to his wife on Earth.
Instead, he's stuck on Destiny, leading a group of people who didn't sign up for this either, with no idea when or if he'll be able to get back home.

As for Ms. Wray, she's been passed over for promotion 4 times, and she's an HR person, and based on the mishaps during her brief tenure as the leader of Destiny, I can see why she was passed over so many times.

[Coronach]

I don't agree that Col. Young thinks too highly of himself.

I agree. And in addition to everything you said, remember this quote from "Darkness":

YOUNG: Yeah-yeah. What the hell was Telford just ordering you to do?

SCOTT: Use the communication stones to report that you need to be replaced.

YOUNG: He's probably right about that. So, the ship came here for what reason?

[natyanayaki]

I think he's changed a lot since the pilot, I think he's gone through the most changes in terms of personality. I think his opinion of himself has drastically changed since the events of "Earth." I think he sees himself as someone better than Rush, and that may have been true at one point, but I think now he's at Rush's level, or even worse off than Rush. Young often makes decisions based on personal biases. I also think that the events of Justice were a turning point for the character, I'm just not totally sure if it was for the better or worse. I don't agree with his decision regarding Rush, I think it was rash, biased and hypocritical, but I do think that he's either snapped apart and will become a worse commander than he's been so far, or that something clicked, and finally realized he has to make tough decisions, and despite his recent rash decision, that he'll become a better commander.

[jelgate]

I think he's changed a lot since the pilot, I think he's gone through the most changes in terms of personality. I think his opinion of himself has drastically changed since the events of "Earth." I think he sees himself as someone better than Rush, and that may have been true at one point, but I think now he's at Rush's level, or even worse off than Rush. Young often makes decisions based on personal biases. I also think that the events of Justice were a turning point for the character, I'm just not totally sure if it was for the better or worse. I don't agree with his decision regarding Rush, I think it was rash, biased and hypocritical, but I do think that he's either snapped apart and will become a worse commander than he's been so far, or that something clicked, and finally realized he has to make tough decisions, and despite his recent rash decision, that he'll become a better commander.

I haven't seen Young risk 80 human lives for his own selfish desires. By that merit it will be hard for him to be worse then Rush. At least to me. That said I will agree that Justice did knock his high moral ground down a peg.

[natyanayaki]

I haven't seen Young risk 80 human lives for his own selfish desires. By that merit it will be hard for him to be worse then Rush. At least to me. That said I will agree that Justice did knock his high moral ground down a peg.

That's a valid point, and I was on the same wavelength for maybe the first quarter of the season; however, as the season progressed and as I re-watched the earlier episodes, and I re-heard Rush's reasons, I came to the conclusion that for all we know Rush could be honest about his reasoning. Now I don't think Rush is all that trustworthy, I love his ambiguity, and I'm not sure if Rush is being played more sympathetically than he's actually written, I just don't think Rush's reasons, his motivations are as simple as Young thinks they are. And I would argue that as the ships current foremost expert on Ancient technology and language, by playing judge, jury and attempted executioner by stranding Rush. For a while now, I've thought of Rush as the threat everyone knows about, and Young as the threat nobody expects. While both are dangerous, personally I'd be much more comfortable being stuck with a known threat than an unknown one, and now that Rush is gone, there's really nobody else aboard the ship to challenge and balance Young.

[jelgate]

That's a valid point, and I was on the same wavelength for maybe the first quarter of the season; however, as the season progressed and as I re-watched the earlier episodes, and I re-heard Rush's reasons, I came to the conclusion that for all we know Rush could be honest about his reasoning. Now I don't think Rush is all that trustworthy, I love his ambiguity, and I'm not sure if Rush is being played more sympathetically than he's actually written, I just don't think Rush's reasons, his motivations are as simple as Young thinks they are.

I suppose he could be right but the fact he mantipulated to get to the Destiny and continues to mantipulate while makes it to hard to trust him.

And I would argue that as the ships current foremost expert on Ancient technology and language, by playing judge, jury and attempted executioner by stranding Rush. For a while now, I've thought of Rush as the threat everyone knows about, and Young as the threat nobody expects. While both are dangerous, personally I'd be much more comfortable being stuck with a known threat than an unknown one, and now that Rush is gone, there's really nobody else aboard the ship to challenge and balance Young.

A threat to what? What or who (besides Rush) is Young a threat to?

[natyanayaki]

A threat to what? What or who (besides Rush) is Young a threat to?

To himself, to everyone aboard. I'm not confident that he's currently able to think clearly or rationally. I don't fully blame him, he was supposed to go home soon, work on his marriage, but he was thrust into this situation, and he think the wife (who he's been manipulating IMO) may be cheating on him. I don't think he's coping as well as he or others seem to think he is, he's really good at holding his emotions in, unless he's alone, or with one other rival (Rush, Telford). It may work for him now, but it can't last especially since getting rid of Rush, beating Telford up, doesn't remove the other more immediate stressors.

[Misfits]

I think he's changed a lot since the pilot, I think he's gone through the most changes in terms of personality. I think his opinion of himself has drastically changed since the events of "Earth." I think he sees himself as someone better than Rush, and that may have been true at one point, but I think now he's at Rush's level, or even worse off than Rush. Young often makes decisions based on personal biases. I also think that the events of Justice were a turning point for the character, I'm just not totally sure if it was for the better or worse. I don't agree with his decision regarding Rush, I think it was rash, biased and hypocritical, but I do think that he's either snapped apart and will become a worse commander than he's been so far, or that something clicked, and finally realized he has to make tough decisions, and despite his recent rash decision, that he'll become a better commander.

I disagree. Like I've said before, I would have done everything that Col. Young has done so far , except for one thing. Making love to his wife using Col. Telford's body was wrong.

On some instances I might have been harsher. I mean, we're talking about survival on a ship several billions of light years from earth, with very limited resources.

I don't think he has changed his personality at all. I think he has accepted the situation for what it is, and therefore, his decisions reflect that acceptance.

Case in point, if returning to earth was going to be achievable right away or soon, then, tolerating Dr, Rush's mischiefs would have been easier.
However, if staying on Destiny was going to be a long term situation, then, his tolerance for any type of mischief shortened drastically.

[garhkal]

I created a thread on this issues, unfortuantly it got merge.

It does sound like Rush an Young are suppose to be working on the same secrete agenda, except Young been to distracted by his personal obsessions to care about the real mission which the people who were meant to be there were to achieve.

That is a good point. What was rush refering to when he said that. Or was it a slip of the tongue.??

So far the only person we have seen who like Rush is O'neil. Even the IOA seems against Rush.

It would have been REALLL nice if they showed more of the footage from when Rush went back in air PT2...

I get the impression that Young's been anti-Rush well before Destiny.

Well, being how he seemed to hagger on about him in the dinner they had after eli arrived, it does seem like he has had a big 'hard on' to shank rush over for a long time. Wonder what it was/. Maybe rush was the one who grassed to Young's wife about the affair.

He can easily tell them that the rockslide happened less than a minute before the deadline and that he didn't have time to dig Rush out and drag him all the way back to the gate.

If that was the case, where was all the dust and debris his uniform would have acquired from said "moments before slide"??

As she stated in "Earth", she was passed over 4 times for promotion and "Justice" showed why she is so lacking.

That is an interesting point. WHY was she passed over for so many times??

Well I never heard of either until Stargate.

Prior to seeing RDA on SG1, and being told that he was Maguiver, i never heard of him. I had to go back and watch some old eps to get an idea who he was.

Never heard of him before SGU....sir.

So you have never seen 28 weeks later, the beech, the world is not enough (he played the baddie!), plunket and mcclane, the full montey, or trainspotting?? He was in all of those.

[PG15]

If that was the case, where was all the dust and debris his uniform would have acquired from said "moments before slide"??

Well, assuming that there's no universal standard of "amount of dust and debris one acquires from narrowly escaping a rock slide", I'd say that this amount of dust and debris:





...is good enough.

[AdamTM]

So you have never seen 28 weeks later, the beech, the world is not enough (he played the baddie!), plunket and mcclane, the full montey, or trainspotting?? He was in all of those.

I actually only recognized him from 28 weeks later.

McGyver tho, that i grew up with. My world favorite secret agent with a Ph.D. waaaaaaay better than Bond

Bond has the license to kill, McGyver has the license for SCIENCE!!!

[EllieVee]

I don't agree that Col. Young thinks too highly of himself. However, Gen. O'Neill thinks very highly of him. Col. Young was his first choice to lead the Expedition team. So, obviously, he has accomplished good things in the past as well as led teams successfully.

I see Col. Young as someone who did not sign up for this. Yet, he's doing the best that he can since he's been thrust into this position.

Col. Young signed up to lead the Icarus base, with a finite time period because he wanted to get back to his wife on Earth.
Instead, he's stuck on Destiny, leading a group of people who didn't sign up for this either, with no idea when or if he'll be able to get back home.

As for Ms. Wray, she's been passed over for promotion 4 times, and she's an HR person, and based on the mishaps during her brief tenure as the leader of Destiny, I can see why she was passed over so many times.

Whether or not O'Neill still thinks highly of him remains to be seen.

[Misfits]

Whether or not O'Neill still thinks highly of him remains to be seen.

In "Earth", during the second time Col. Young "stones" back to earth, along with Chloe and Eli, Gen. O'Neill has a conversation about replacing Col. Young with Col. Telford in order to implement the IOA rescue plan.

O'NEILL: Look, I offered you command of the expedition. You were my first choice.

It would be logical to think that Gen. O'Neill thinks highly, VERY highly of Col. Young.

[natyanayaki]

In "Earth", during the second time Col. Young "stones" back to earth, along with Chloe and Eli, Gen. O'Neill has a conversation about replacing Col. Young with Col. Telford in order to implement the IOA rescue plan.



It would be logical to think that Gen. O'Neill thinks highly, VERY highly of Col. Young.

"were" past tense, but we don't know what he thinks of Young now or what he'll think of Young after he finds out about Telford, Rush and his affair with a lower ranking officer who was under his command.