'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[Vapor]

did the Ship go there cause it new there was another ship there? Has Rush been working with Destiney? I wonder...

Oh, I hadn't even considered that the Destiny might have stopped on that planet because there's something they could use. That's a valid point. Either the ship, or something else we haven't been show yet that will help Rush, could be the whole reason the Destiny came there.

[PG15]

What did he say?

From the transcript:

MESS HALL. A Kino is floating in the air watching the queue of people lined up waiting to collect their meal ration. Dale Volker and Jeremy Franklin are next to each other in the queue and are talking.

VOLKER: Forty thousand litres?!

FRANKLIN: That's what I heard.

VOLKER: Well, we didn't drink it.

FRANKLIN: Let's just say it wouldn't surprise me if there was more water than they're telling us.

VOLKER: So, what? They're hoarding it?

FRANKLIN: Big ship. You know the military. As long as they control the water supply, they control us.

(While he has been talking, Volker has spotted the Kino nearby and is staring at it suspiciously. Franklin follows his gaze, rolls his eyes and turns to address the Kino directly.)

FRANKLIN: That's right. I'm talking about you.

(In another room, Eli turns off the volume in embarrassment. Young is standing next to him.)

YOUNG: Those two are harmless. Keep it up. I need to know who I can trust.

[Later]

CHLOE'S QUARTERS. Greer is lifting Chloe's mattress and looking underneath it as she stands nearby.

GREER: Busy day on Destiny.

ARMSTRONG: I haven't taken anything.

GREER: I don't think you have.

(Franklin comes to the doorway.)

FRANKLIN: What are you doing?

GREER: Checking for stolen rations.

ARMSTRONG: It's OK, Doctor Franklin.

FRANKLIN: Confess, Miss Armstrong! You drank forty thousand litres of water!

ARMSTRONG (to Greer): He's kidding.

GREER: I know.

FRANKLIN: I'm just saying: we have rights.

(Greer locks his gaze onto Franklin and starts to walk towards him.)

GREER: I'm done here, Miss Armstrong. I hope I haven't inconvenienced you.

ARMSTRONG: I understand.

(Greer stops and turns back to her, nodding.)

GREER: I knew that you would.

(He turns back towards Franklin, his face stern.)

GREER: You. Next.

(Nervously, Franklin turns and leads him away.)

I think you can get the general mentality of Franklin pretty well. And then of course you have the stuff from Life and this episode.

[garhkal]

WOW Young is a monster.

\

Agreed. I would rather have a scheming coward (like rush) than someone who willfully steals another's body to beat someone up (telford), or strands another and then lies about it to cover his ass.

brilliant mid season finale

Agreed. This was a outstanding episode all around.

do you think rush will find a way back, and if so how will he do it? thoughts.

Most likely somehting to do with that ship. Either that or Spencer wakes up, finds out rush is missing and reconfigures the nav to go back to that planet.

My question exactly. I really am a little worried about how they are going to pull this off. Are they going to pull something like, having Rush gain access to the alien ship, get it up and running, learn how to fly it and catch up the Destiny in FTL? Thats Rodney McKay territory me thinks.

Plus how will he know where the destiny went?

Really? I thought it was great, trying to figure out who was the one to frame Young. I had Wray pegged as doing what it ultimately turned out Rush did, but it really showed just what lengths Rush will go to if he believes his curiosity will be satiated.

I too thought it was Wray, especially after Young announced she stopped the investigation after he handed her control.

But in the end it was Rush, who has basically lost all credibility for his actions, mostly because he did it with a smile. He definitely subscribes to the 'end justifies the means' motto, far too well.

He did become more 'sleezy' to me, but i still like his character.

The Chair was more bloody than I expected. And to think Beckett complained about sitting in the Atlantis Chair.

I would have loved to hear his response to seeing what this chair does!

If/when Rush gets back, Young is screwed as a leader.

I can hope. If nothing else, his creditability with everyone else is shot, espcially after lying about how rush was left behind.

that's why he wanted eli to back up the kino video

Even if he has that, i don't think people will see framing Young to get him out of leadership as being as serious as flat out stranding someone to die then lying about it.
Especially as he is supposed to be the head guy. From many of the military leadership courses i have taken one of the few things they ALL stress is never lie to your underlings as that will always undermine your authority.

For once, and I must stress this fact, Chloe had a real purpose beyond ‘relationship’. Actually, I was quite impressed by the way she was defending Young and not backing down from Wray during the small hearing they had

Agreed. The backbone she showed standing up to Wray and even calling it properly (when she said "then wy don't you just PICK the guilty person") was amazing.

Worse yet, he lied about it just like he didn’t want them to do with Spencer’s ‘Murder’ showing that he is in fact capable of doing what they accused him of.

Most definitely. He not only showed he lacks the moral fiber to be truthful, but also has no remorse about it. At least rush admitted to it and showed his reasonings for doing what he did (frame young).

Young didn't commit a murder. He triad and sentenced Rush to death for Mutiny and inciting the crew against their commanding officer.

First off, he did not try him. He just made a call to leave him there. IF he was honestly sentencing him for what he did why would he have lied about how rush got left behind?
Secondly, since he is NOT military, how can rush be a mutineer?

rush wont fix the ship....robert carlyle has already said

Interesting titbit you spoilered for us.. THanks.

Oh and no stones were used in this ep, well only off screen, WOO HOO!

Agreed. They have become a little too ever present.

Now yes when rush get back it will bite Young, but Rush also know now that he can't under estimate Young again

And i don't think he will. Especially since he now knows to what extent young will go to KEEP his status.

Who said an angry man can't be funny. I loved Greer as he ate the "sweet potato." It was funny as he ate something that taste so terrible without flinching.

Reminded me of a scene from the film Blind fury where Rutgar's character eats a burrito laced with hot sauce and comments "its a bit mild"..
Though with the haste he left i wonder if it was to go throw up?>

What did surprise me was how many people agreed to follow him. You think most of the military personnel would understand the importance of conducting law and order.

Very true. Heck, even the LT's were willing to follow his lead. THAT imo shows them in one heck of a bad light.

What Rush did was wrong but did the punishment fit the crime? I'm going to have to think that one.

A suitable punishment would have been to strip RUsh of his position as lead scientist, forcing him to report to someone else/ask permission of someone else, much like what Rush did to young.

So, more conduct unbecoming from the military. Young acting as judge, jury and executioner and for the second time in as many episodes beating someone up, this time a wuss scientist. What appears to be (thus far) becoming a murderer. Taking it upon himself to decide what should be done with the crew's possibly most valuable member.

Agreed. IF there was anyway for the people of earth to properly discipline those on the Destiny, when this whole stuff comes to light i cannot honestly see young getting away with it, let alone what he did to telford (if that is found out).

Um... they're stranded out in the universe. Young has every right to be judge, jury, and executioner. Have you ever heard of "martial law"? God forbid the military is depicted as anything but angels who do no wrong...

While they MAYBE stranded, it is not grounds to implement martial law. That plus the fact he was technically not back in command. So he had no right to act as judge, jury and executioner.

Or was that Young by himself without any knowledge or assistance from the crew? Did anyone else know?

It was all Young. Heck, he LIED about how rush got stranded there. That is in no way showing him to be a good leader.

and personally that decision, among other things, kinda makes me question how he ever got to the rank of Colonel.

Very true. It is a sorry state of affairs when someone with his lack of morals has advanced as much as he has in the military.

I loved this episode but I do have one beef: why did they think Young and Rush were running out of time when its already been established that they just need to stick an arm through the gate to hold it open?

It did kind of bug me no one thought to do that. BUT it would not have helped rush.

[Clem]

A very interesting episode, which i enjoyed alot.

I loved the divide between military and civilian. You can always trust the military to try and control the common man with brute force and fire power. Even in a situation where those very same civilians are their only chance of returning home. Young was able to hold his men back for the time being, but one day he's not going to be there and Destiny is going to explode into a sea of faction based violence.

Rush being stranded offworld didn't phase me in the slightest. It adds a really nice layer of conflict to the Rush/Young feud, but anyone who thinks he's not gonna fly that alien ship right back to Destiny is fooling themselves. Saying that, i'll be interested to see what happens upon his return. Rush can't out Young for stranding him or he'd out Rush for framing him. They'll have this whole quiet seething rage thing going on, that's for sure.

Lots of questions left open for next year, can't wait to see the answers. Who's ship was that? How long will it take Rush to return? How long until someone asks the question "gee, that was suspicious..."? How long til Volker wakes up and what will he know? What use is a control chair that drills into your brain? How long before the crew mutiny? Full of possibilities.

[natyanayaki]

Oh and let me clarify that I don't think that military is SO good that no Officer would do this...but every time I make a statement like this...it's with the complete view of the all the characters...

We have probably the most unlikely ensemble of loose canon's ever assembled.
I just don't find it likely that this mean slipped through the Proverbial cracks in the Chain of Command.

I understand what you mean. I wonder if Young has a medical condition, a brain aneurysm or tumor, that's making him act unpredictably.

[Abiron]

I suppose, if I had to figure out how someone like Rush might get himself out of this predicament, that I would fall back on his knowledge of the Stargate rather than assume he can make yet another new and previously unknown alien technology work. Were I to have a hand in the resoultion of this, I might assume that Rush's knowledge of the Stargate networks would allow him to use the gate on the planet he was stranded on to reach a gate that is further along Destiny's course than the ship's FTL would have carried it yet, and then dial the ship. He might need to leapfrog several of the seeded gates to do it, and he might well encounter a gate on a world with intelligent life along the way. Far less of a Deus Ex than having him get a derelict craft from an unknown race up and running.

But that's just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

The military are people they can be positive or negative.
BUT they are also trained...These people act like they have no training.

I will say this: I think using the situation to justify these people staying together over 7 season is problematic....In reality we tend to destroy one another so lets how this show has something to distract them with.

These two points contradict each other.

SGU has painted a more realistic world than the black & white one you're talking about.

[Indoctrinated]

I've seen a lot of people on here commenting on the fact that Young is "screwed" when Rush shows up again, but I don't think the issue is as clear cut as that.

Young claims he saw Rush trapped beneath a rockslide, not that he necessarily saw him die. There were no kino recordings to prove what happened one way or another. Young will swear to the fact he thought Rush was dead, Rush will claim that Young knocked him out and left him behind on purpose. Essentially, it will be Rush's word against Young's and, upon this happening, people will have to choose who they believe. I'm certain it's well known throughout the ship that Rush and Young were practically at each other's throats the entire time, and might see it as Rush's way of getting back at him for leaving him there when Young thought he was dead.

Keep in mind the fact that Young has a copy of Rush taking Spencer's gun from the room, and with Rush being aware of this fact I'm pretty sure he'll think twice before openly accusing Young of leaving him behind, at least until he can definitively prove it.

[TheLastSunset]

Wow.. Wonderful episode. It was perfect. I'm supremely intrigued to see what transpires in the next episode after all that's occurred. Detailed, dramatic, and riveting was Justice. I love this show.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Because she's a girl, anything to show more female skin...

Why would they go to all the trouble just to have her wearing a jacket then?

*gasp* *thud* *shock*

It is better than BSG. These people may cry or show an angry temper or even do some morally questionable things, but not one of them has fallen on the flour crying like a 5 year old screaming "WE'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY!!"

And the way they handled the "trial" in this ep was perfect compared to the grand-standing "after school special" speech that Apollo gave in BSG.

I loved this episode. One of my favorites so far.

That fight scene at the end has to be my favorite in all of stargate

I laughed when Rush threw the rock.

I loved that part. Rush has consistently shown he's not afraid of the military personnel on the Destiny, and he won't back down like nearly every scientist we've seen in Stargate that wasn't military.

[fammann]

this episode lacks cliff hanger material. Atlantis's The Storm had a better Cliff hanger than this.

Are you serious. Well I thought this was one of the best cliffhangers ever.

I had my doubts about sgu. Im definitly not a fan of the soap stuff.

But this episode (in my opinion) is not only the best episode of sgu but one of the best episodes in the stargate franchise. It was very suspensfull. And it payed off a lot of the character development in the earlier episodes. Especialy the stuf between rush and young. But also the rest of the cast. And even Chloe got somthing to do.

So my rating for this one 10/10

[KibbyCC]

I had to register after this episode. I am loving this series.

This is one of those "you do it to yourself" moments in my mind. Rush tells Young he isn't capable of sacrificing for the greater good.. of making the tough choices, and how he'll never stop to remove him.

So how does Young react? Well he makes the tough choice, and sacrifices for his version of the greater good. If I were Young it's the choice I would have made in that moment.

In not even 24hours out of Young losing command, Rush had already managed to give his pep talk to his scientists and give a not so subtle push for one of them to sit in the chair. Which one did, leading to a very possible death shortly.

Young is right in that Rush wouldn't sit in the chair himself, but he has no qualms in sacrificing others. Rush is brilliant but also a bit of coward. Is it the right decision for him to sit in the chair himself? Of course not he's their best mind...

And this lies the difference between the 2... Young will try to play it more safe and hope. While Rush is much more willing to break eggs to open up the chance to bring them home.

[fammann]

Just didn't feel the drama. And it was way too predictable of an episode. A good episode would've had me guessing and second guessing. This one panned out the way I predicted.

Well I didn't guess that it was rush at all. I thought the guy who went in the chair later killed him because he was attaked by him in an earlier ep. (But maybe it wasn't him at all that was attacked. Not sure) Later he his concience was bugging him and he decided to sacrifice himself and sit in the chair.

Sounds crazy but that was my theory while I was watching it.

It was a fantastic episode. Im now completly sold on sgu. 10/10

[kgirluvr]

My thoughts on this one:

it was somewhat predicatble in the beginning.

1. There's a power grab on the ship : young, wray , rush.
2. Rush eliminates his competition, and manipulates wray for chair stuff.
3. After the guy on the chair got damaged , I knew Rush did the framing.

4.What rush did was wrong! framing someone
I think young did something worse. lying and left someone to die.(because, he'd have less problems with rush back on teh ship after he ruffed him up)
( notice he didnt even call for help, on the walkie talkie), (Beating someone up with anger and expect it all to be OK is lame)

5. Somewhat predicatable outcome, but it was an OK cliffhanger .
Because Rush is in the main cast, and to leave him to die and Young's actions makes it shocking episode more than the suspensful WHO KILLED him skit.

6. Young's an even better manipulator than i thought.
-with holding evidence,
-playing along with rush to go to the planet
-cover story
-And have Eli help him cover up ( I'm shocked on Eli, he's not too innocent to speculate)
-Ends justifies the means? Leave Rush on the planet, to get rid of him for good.
OR
Save himself and get to the Gate before it closes.

RUSH: " you resigned your position becase you didnt want to make the hard decisions... the Life and Death decisions.."

[fammann]

So...I guess I was right then? The cliffhanger is cheesy and it won't end in a cliffhanger. Touche! Reading people's comments it doesn't seem to..
I don't see this show surviving more than 2 seasons if these boring episodes keep coming.

Well dont interpret too much into what youre reading. I tought that was one of the best cliffhangers ever. It wasn't as spectacular in an action sense. It didnt involve any battle. But its a character driven show not an action show. But on me that cliffhanger had an hugh impact.

The show always told us that when you a left on a planet there is no way you can get back to the destiny. So Rush being stranded on that planet is quite a hugh cliffhanger. Sure theres the spaceship but it does not make the impression as if its working.

I hope it takes rush a long time to get back to the ship.