'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[aretood2]

Which bit in Air about Scott? And Young? He was the base commander and Rush was the lead scientist. You'd think they'd have had a conversation at some point. Or Young was being a jerk. Nothing new there.

WHen Rush was all up in his grill about father issues while they were in dat desert planet.

You have to remember Rush is an academic. Decisions that he would make as an academic probably wouldn't work all the time in the 'real' world. Another Carlyle interview talks about Rush in Darkness realising the consequences of his actions.

That could explain his coffee meltdown, but that was way to subtle for me.

I don't know that Dee would buy your soul.

*Shrugs*

[EllieVee]

WHen Rush was all up in his grill about father issues while they were in dat desert planet.

Oh, pish, poor little Scott.

That could explain his coffee meltdown, but that was way to subtle for me.

I'll have a look for the interview.

*Shrugs*

If it's any consolation I think were Dee to buy your soul, she'd take care of it and you know, feed it, groom it, take it to the vet, that sort of thing.

[aretood2]

Oh, pish, poor little Scott.

I'll have a look for the interview.

If it's any consolation I think were Dee to buy your soul, she'd take care of it and you know, feed it, groom it, take it to the vet, that sort of thing.

Scott's a good kid, he just needs to grow a pair...and not for the purpose he feels obligated to use them for

Dee.....that's a lot better than what De would do

[Coronach]

Scott's a good kid, he just needs to grow a pair...and not for the purpose he feels obligated to use them for

Interestingly, I'd say both interpretations of that particular phrase don't fit Scott at all. It seems to me the last thing he needs to do is "grow a pair", given the remarkable courage (and...other stuff...) he's shown thusfar.

[aretood2]

Interestingly, I'd say both interpretations of that particular phrase don't fit Scott at all. It seems to me the last thing he needs to do is "grow a pair", given the remarkable courage (and...other stuff...) he's shown thusfar.

Courage isn't their only use. And no, I don't mean the literal use either.

[EllieVee]

Scott's a good kid, he just needs to grow a pair...and not for the purpose he feels obligated to use them for

I think he needs to engage his brain first.

[aretood2]

I think he needs to engage his brain first.

and this is why I want TJ to be in charge...she can think on her feet. Scott is a reliable lackey, TJ is a leader.

[jmoz]

As much of a fan as I am of two sided overblown conflicts (not really), here's the practical solution. Have Bill and other scientists switch with civilians with communication stones and have the civilians learn useful/practical skills for independent survival like medical training/ancient tech/etc. Have Young step down and hand the reins to the person ranked below him (Scott?). Have Young just be an advisor and the constantly predictable nay-sayer to Rush's propositions. Have scientists advise him, not Rush but the others but sometimes Rush as well to get some more perspective. Wray can represent the civilians and advise as well. But this would destroy the show, so never mind.

[LtColCarter]

As much of a fan as I am of two sided overblown conflicts (not really), here's the practical solution. Have Bill and other scientists switch with civilians with communication stones and have the civilians learn useful/practical skills for independent survival like medical training/ancient tech/etc. Have Young step down and hand the reins to the person ranked below him (Scott?). Have Young just be an advisor and the constantly predictable nay-sayer to Rush's propositions. Have scientists advise him, not Rush but the others but sometimes Rush as well to get some more perspective. Wray can represent the civilians and advise as well. But this would destroy the show, so never mind.

Hmmmm....yeah....IDK...sounds sortta bland from my POV...just don't know what the solution should be.

[blackluster]

As much of a fan as I am of two sided overblown conflicts (not really), here's the practical solution. Have Bill and other scientists switch with civilians with communication stones and have the civilians learn useful/practical skills for independent survival like medical training/ancient tech/etc.

I think the stones should remain being used as stress relief. I'd hate to step out of that situation only to step into a bombardment of skills training which may or may not be useful and only drains me mentally having to learn it.

Have Young step down and hand the reins to the person ranked below him (Scott?).

I think TJ is a better choice (only slightly) Scott seems somewhat incompetent and irresponsible.

Have Young just be an advisor and the constantly predictable nay-sayer to Rush's propositions. Have scientists advise him, not Rush but the others but sometimes Rush as well to get some more perspective.

I'd still pick Rush as a primary adviser because his understanding exceeds all the other scientists combined and he has a better mentality. He's the only one who is ok with being on Destiny and I think this gives him more level headed insight into situations and makes him less prone to depression and consequent recklessness.

[Saquist]

QED. I knew you'd not be able to come up with actual examples. He didn't deliberately dial the ninth chevron to strand them there. As evidenced by Air the extended pilot and

Hubris aside...
On the water planet episode, Young directly confronts Rush and says it is his fault that their struggling for their lives and the disappearing water supply. Rush blows him off. Just like Rush blew him off when he was dialing in Air...."It's may be our only chance" was all the justification Rush needed. Rush isn't concerned with what anyone thinks about his decision to bring them there. And that has been the most constant in the character from day one.

He didn't contrive it, the writers did. It is fiction, you know, and the contrivance to get them stuck there meant that they would survive going through. If you want to blame anyone, blame the writers.

It doesn't really matter. Contrivance merely is and it doesn't make the character anymore believable if he believes in his own contrivance or not.
For the writers it's just bad writing.
For the character it's stupidity and presumptuousness.
I think that covers everyone.

Yes, I have, and I'm waiting for your specific examples.

"I can only show you door. You're the one that has to walk through it"
I would say you're waiting to reject those specific examples.
Rush's behavior isn't really open to as much interpretation as some would have it.
Sure they may reveal he was working under orders and we'll see his entire attitude change in some spectacular twist at the end of the season...
I'll yawn through it and abandon the series because while some will stake their beliefs in contrivances...I don't.

The moment Rush stranded them on Destiny for no reason not knowing what was on the other side of that gate, once they add the clause "we can't dial any where else in time" are some thing to that it's writing by force. Not just a contrivance.

Justice is the epitome of that Force. This series needed a two parter and they decided to force a suicide that definitely wasn't in the characters make-up. They wasted SO MUCH time playing around with Kino-sodes, interviews, and stone-capades on Earth they managed to accomplish nothing to very little because they simply refuse to let the character interact with one another in some other way than sex or physical aggression. And that's because nothing has happened to spur the characters.

This is frankly the most sad way to run a series into the ground with characters and stories like that. So little imagination has been used on SGU right now it simply has to get better. For a show to take itself this seriously and to so underachieve as it has is startling profound.
I will consider all the episodes but Light, Earth, and Time to be complete mistakes and debacles and start all over for 1.5.

[Deevil]

Rush's behavior isn't really open to as much interpretation as some would have it.

Every characters behaviour is up to interpretation - I don't know why you would think otherwise. If it wasn't, if everything to be known about the character was expressly stated it'd be boring, pointless and there would be no debate. Thus, there would be no forum.

[LtColCarter]

Every characters behaviour is up to interpretation - I don't know why you would think otherwise. If it wasn't, if everything to be known about the character was expressly stated it'd be boring, pointless and there would be no debate. Thus, there would be no forum.

How true!

[jelgate]

Every characters behaviour is up to interpretation - I don't know why you would think otherwise. If it wasn't, if everything to be known about the character was expressly stated it'd be boring, pointless and there would be no debate. Thus, there would be no forum.

I think it depends on the behavior in question. Some are set in stone as we know how they would react. We know SG-1 has the behavior of sacrificing thier lives for the planet. However the majority of behavior is gray and as you put of to interpretation. I'm going to now return to me interpretation that Rush is a sociopath

[Saquist]

Every characters behaviour is up to interpretation - I don't know why you would think otherwise. If it wasn't, if everything to be known about the character was expressly stated it'd be boring, pointless and there would be no debate. Thus, there would be no forum.

How true!

Please do not misrepresent my position.
If you did not understand what was said, I'd advise you to ask questions. They are more useful than assumptions.
You're creating fallacies and simultaneously contradicting yourself just to contradict me.

Fallacy: Straw man: You claim I believe a characters behavior is not up for interpretation.

I said Rush's behavior isn't really open to "as much interpretation".

Fallacy: Straw man: You claimed by implication of, "why I would think otherwise", that I believe everything is known about the Rush character.

Rather, I implied that we know enough, not that we knew everything.
I could have explained that if you had asked.


The contradiction:
By attempting to contradict a moderate statement which you interpreted as an absolute you've contradict the practice of writing for proper character make up which every series creates to guide writers on character behavior. You've also suggested that Plot Devices be inherently flawed by developing characters outside what is other wise consistent which would fall under the label of a "plot hole".

You (as I believe you've represented yourself as a writer) can't possibly mean this. Yet this is where the fallacies lead.
If this is your opinion of what I've said...that is one thing. But Your statement can't be true primarily because you did not present my argument accurately. It would seem diplomatically proper that you shouldn't make your case by mutilating mine.