'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I don't know if I can exhibit enough nativity to take Rush's actions at face value considering the negativity of his previous antagonistic actions.

LOL. I guess your right none of us can show enough birth with Rush's actions.

[EllieVee]

How much more deliberate do you need?

QED. I knew you'd not be able to come up with actual examples. He didn't deliberately dial the ninth chevron to strand them there. As evidenced by Air the extended pilot and

He did it and had a very poor reason for stranding them there. All he could think about was never seeing what's on the other side.
They didn't even send a Malp through. They had no idea what they were walking into.

They could have stepped into vacuum,under an ocean, black hole, miles under ground in solid rock. He was massive presumption. And frankly the most unbelievable thing about the pilot..

It was contrived the moment he started dialing it. It would have been better if they had come under attack after already establishing the wormhole with people on the other side already exploring.

He didn't contrive it, the writers did. It is fiction, you know, and the contrivance to get them stuck there meant that they would survive going through. If you want to blame anyone, blame the writers.

Aside from that you've seen the same episodes I have. Rush has arrogantly withheld information lied, framed and verbally assaulted his on team as well as the military.

Yes, I have, and I'm waiting for your specific examples.

LOL. I guess your right none of us can show enough birth with Rush's actions.

*snickers*

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

QED. I knew you'd not be able to come up with actual examples. He didn't deliberately dial the ninth chevron to strand them there. As evidenced by Air the extended pilot and

Ellie just clarify something for me, are you actually arguing that Rush dialled the 9th chevron with the deliberate intention of saving everyone's life as his main objective? Because I don't think that's the way it is and the show, especially with scenes like the extended bit with O'Neill plays it. I think it shows he felt that the important thing was to dial the 9th chevron, whether for selfish reasons or whether because he felt altruistically that it was for the good of humanity that they explore beyond the 9th chevron, his interest was in getting to the Destiny.

[EllieVee]

Ellie just clarify something for me, are you actually arguing that Rush dialled the 9th chevron with the deliberate intention of saving everyone's life as his main objective? Because I don't think that's the way it is and the show, especially with scenes like the extended bit with O'Neill plays it. I think it shows he felt that the important thing was to dial the 9th chevron, whether for selfish reasons or whether because he felt altruistically that it was for the good of humanity that they explore beyond the 9th chevron, his interest was in getting to the Destiny.

I think it's a combination of both. I think he wanted to dial the ninth chevron to find whatever it was that was at the other end but he also realised that dialling Earth (and by extension any planet close to home) would likely kill all of them, so he took the chance that the power translating through the gate would be 'diluted' by distance. I think there's enough evidence on screen that he was right about the risk. Sure, he wanted to dial the ninth chevron and he's happy (though I think happy is the wrong word for Rush) to be there, prefers not to go home, but the other factor has to be taken into account.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I think it's a combination of both. I think he wanted to dial the ninth chevron to find whatever it was that was at the other end but he also realised that dialling Earth (and by extension any planet close to home) would likely kill all of them, so he took the chance that the power translating through the gate would be 'diluted' by distance. I think there's enough evidence on screen that he was right about the risk. Sure, he wanted to dial the ninth chevron and he's happy (though I think happy is the wrong word for Rush) to be there, prefers not to go home, but the other factor has to be taken into account.

Despite the fact that Carlyle has said in interviews that Rush has no interest in returning home?

[EllieVee]

Despite the fact that Carlyle has said in interviews that Rush has no interest in returning home?

I just said that.

[jelgate]

Despite the fact that Carlyle has said in interviews that Rush has no interest in returning home?

And that energy translatiing through a wormhole is constant regardless of the distance

[EllieVee]

And that energy translatiing through a wormhole is constant regardless of the distance

Remains to be seen. The fact that they were tossed out of the gate? Your explanation of that is what exactly? You've constantly objected to this and yet there's no actual valid reason given for it.

[aretood2]

Except that you're accusing him of being all black not grey. Were you saying he was grey you would be saying the same thing as I am: that what he's not is not provable.

Actually I want him to be black....

He didn't refuse to eat with Eli and the others because HE WASN'T INVITED TO EAT WITH ELI AND THE OTHERS. Colonel Young comes in, asks Eli to have dinner in the officer's mess. All Rush says is that he'd prefer Eli to keep working. Young takes Eli out AND AT NO TIME DOES HE INVITE RUSH TO EAT WITH THEM NOR DOES RUSH REFUSE TO GO.

I wonder why he was not invited.

Yes, I'm shouting because what you accuse him of didn't happen.

meh. No big deal.

Yes, he makes decisions that the weak Young will not. He's a pragmatist, which appears to be a crime now, too.

yet he makes them like a battle hardened soldier instead of a civilian scientist. Something is missing there... until I know more about his possibly tragic past I am left with one conclusion...that he is the devil himself....seriously if you get mad at that very last statement I will never ever ever let you live it down!

[EllieVee]

Actually I want him to be black....

I like the grey. There's an interview with Carlyle where he says just when you start to like Rush he does something horrendous to put you off. I like that explanation.

I wonder why he was not invited.

If you take a look at the arrival scene at Icarus, Young walks straight past Rush without a greeting and Rush gives him a filthy look. Bad blood for a while there, I'd say. It's a nice little forshadow of things to come.

meh. No big deal.

Oh, pffffft.

yet he makes them like a battle hardened soldier instead of a civilian scientist. Something is missing there...

Yes, exactly. He makes the hard decisions. What led him to that?

until I know more about his possibly tragic past I am left with one conclusion...that he is the devil himself....seriously if you get mad at that very last statement I will never ever ever let you live it down!

I was always on the devil's side in Dr Faustus.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I just said that.

You said prefers, and no offence Ellie but the whole dialling a planet in the Milkyway would kill them is a total asspull. Nothing of the sort is said onscreen about it and when challenged by O'Neill over dialling the 9th chevron Rush never mentions that dialling a planet in the milkyway would have killed them. Further it'd derail many of the themes of the show. SGU is centred around two morally ambiguous characters warring for the soul of the crew. This makes him their saviour and makes him into some kinda of martyr. If Rush was meant to be seen this way and had saved them from dying by taking them to the Destiny it would have been explicitly stated on the show.

[EllieVee]

You said prefers, and no offence Ellie but the whole dialling a planet in the Milkyway would kill them is a total asspull. Nothing of the sort is said onscreen about it and when challenged by O'Neill over dialling the 9th chevron Rush never mentions that dialling a planet in the milkyway would have killed them. Further it'd derail many of the themes of the show. SGU is centred around two morally ambiguous characters warring for the soul of the crew. This makes him their saviour and makes him into some kinda of martyr. If Rush was meant to be seen this way and had saved them from dying by taking them to the Destiny it would have been explicitly stated on the show.

No, I don't think it would have been stated. I think given the moral ambiguity we supposed to see both sides because we don't know which is which. Plus, the accusation of he only did it for his own ego removes that ambiguity entirely and puts him firmly in the black hat category, which he isn't. He's somewhere in the middle.

[aretood2]

I like the grey. There's an interview with Carlyle where he says just when you start to like Rush he does something horrendous to put you off. I like that explanation.

Horrendous you say?

If you take a look at the arrival scene at Icarus, Young walks straight past Rush without a greeting and Rush gives him a filthy look. Bad blood for a while there, I'd say. It's a nice little forshadow of things to come.

Interesting, But this could be interpreted differently. Rush wasn't to kind to scott in "Air" and it didn't seem like he respects military that much. Young could have just not known him or was being a jerk. There for....

Yes, exactly. He makes the hard decisions. What led him to that?

You know that cops usually have a hard time dealing with firing their weapons. Even if they had no choice they still require a psych evaluation. That's a Police officer, if Rush makes these hard decisions and shows no conflict....what does that say?

I was always on the devil's side in Dr Faustus.

I did not sell my soul to the devil, maybe to deevil but not the devil

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

No, I don't think it would have been stated. I think given the moral ambiguity we supposed to see both sides because we don't know which is which. Plus, the accusation of he only did it for his own ego removes that ambiguity entirely and puts him firmly in the black hat category, which he isn't. He's somewhere in the middle.

Who says that going to Destiny was simply for his own benefit? Way I see there's an argument that Rush believes that exploration and discovery are important for humanity and believed that the way to the 9th chevron was about to be lost, so he took the only opportunity that would be available for a long time for humanity to explore the rest of the universe. Seems to be plenty ambiguous to me, makes it into returning home v scientific discovery and exploration conflict which I think is one of the major Rush v Young conflicts.

[EllieVee]

Horrendous you say?

Carlyle's word not mine.

Interesting, But this could be interpreted differently. Rush wasn't to kind to scott in "Air" and it didn't seem like he respects military that much. Young could have just not known him or was being a jerk. There for....

Which bit in Air about Scott? And Young? He was the base commander and Rush was the lead scientist. You'd think they'd have had a conversation at some point. Or Young was being a jerk. Nothing new there.

You know that cops usually have a hard time dealing with firing their weapons. Even if they had no choice they still require a psych evaluation. That's a Police officer, if Rush makes these hard decisions and shows no conflict....what does that say?

You have to remember Rush is an academic. Decisions that he would make as an academic probably wouldn't work all the time in the 'real' world. Another Carlyle interview talks about Rush in Darkness realising the consequences of his actions.

I did not sell my soul to the devil, maybe to deevil but not the devil

I don't know that Dee would buy your soul.