'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[jelgate]

***** you. I don't like being called a liar by ignorant bullies. Just because I can't remember the name of the episode out of 200 +. I alos asked for people to correct me or help, but obviously you just want to be the big tough guy and bully your opinion on some more people.
I've had enough time arguing with idiots in RL who aren't willing to listen to other people's opinions wihtout listening to the same crap here.

Oh this is so ironic.

You want another example then, BSG, Adama lies to them all. But because he's a good old guy that everyone respects, he's allowed to do it.

And look how low the morale was on BSG. The fleet always thought they doomed (Ie low morale)

[Stewart5]

But most of them still pulled together and tried to find Earth.

Oh, yeah, ironic. I have, and will quote you the references, mroe than once admitted when someone from an opposing view has made a good point. I also don't bully people, belittle their opinions or call them liars. And that, coming form the biggest bully on this damn forum doesn't surprise me.
Don't worry though, I have had enough. You insult people like Ellie and Deevil regularly for not sharing your opinions, and you belittle theirs, and even when they or I try and give a good, decent answer with good points we are ignored. I'm gone to somewhere where I'm not made to feel inferior because you feel the need to try and be better than everyone

[aretood2]

some people need to take a walk...

[jelgate]

But most of them still pulled together and tried to find Earth.

Only because they were ordered too. They didn't exactly have high morale.

Oh, yeah, ironic. I have, and will quote you the references, mroe than once admitted when someone from an opposing view has made a good point. I also don't bully people, belittle their opinions or call them liars. And that, coming form the biggest bully on this damn forum doesn't surprise me.

You called me arrogant for disagreeing with your morale view. I call that belittling someones' opinion

Don't worry though, I have had enough. You insult people like Ellie and Deevil regularly for not sharing your opinions, and you belittle theirs, and even when they or I try and give a good, decent answer with good points we are ignored. I'm gone to somewhere where I'm not made to feel inferior because you feel the need to try and be better than everyone

I will admitt me and Deevil have got into some heated debates but I don't recall insulting her intergrity. Maybe her POV. But that is debating. Finding flaws in the person's arguement

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

***** you. I don't like being called a liar by ignorant bullies. Just because I can't remember the name of the episode out of 200 +. I alos asked for people to correct me or help, but obviously you just want to be the big tough guy and bully your opinion on some more people.
I've had enough time arguing with idiots in RL who aren't willing to listen to other people's opinions wihtout listening to the same crap here.

And the WW1 example was poor, because it wasn't a lie; they genuinely believed it would be.

You want another example then, BSG, Adama lies to them all. But because he's a good old guy that everyone respects, he's allowed to do it.

Please quote me where I say you lie. All I point out is that you have provided no reference to any specific stargate episode where O’Neill flatout lies to Hammond. As for the BSG example, clearly that doesn’t work because as the series goes on Adama's authority is eroded, culminating in mutiny. Yeah that worked out fantastically.

[Stewart5]

Don't you dare tell me what I did or didn't say. I didn't tell you arrogant for disagreeing with me; thats the point of dectes. I calkled you arrogant for the way you speak to me and put your points across to me. How could anyone be arrogant for disagreeing? Don't put words in my mouth to try and make your point.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Don't you dare tell me what I did or didn't say. I didn't tell you arrogant for disagreeing with me; thats the point of dectes. I calkled you arrogant for the way you speak to me and put your points across to me. How could anyone be arrogant for disagreeing? Don't put words in my mouth to try and make your point.

Well if you don’t want to debate the topic and just want to rant and rave then fine, I’ll leave you to it.

[Deevil]

Let's take a time out guys.

***

Anyways, onto the topic.

Rush's lies were not harmful. Saying that there is an Icarus type planet within a year of where they are gives them hope - but also gives an out if they don't find it. After all, they do not control the course of the ship now do they? Young was just pissed that he didn't come up with an idea.

Hammond and Jack have lied to their subordinates on innumerable occasions, as did Sheppard. Those in command do not always tell the truth, not only because it's bad for moral but because they can't always tell the truth. A white lie is better then telling everyone "you're all gonna die, so kiss your ass goodbye". That being said, Rush is not a leader. He is a scientist. He is not trained with how to deal with people in these situations, he is literally guessing because he lacks the usual social graces and doesn't have anything to fall back on.

I think the problem is, as has been said, that it was Rush who mentioned the planet. If it were Young it would have been forgiven.

The reality is, no one on board has the ability both mentally and intellectually to deal with this situation. They are all doing the best they can.

[aretood2]

Let's take a time out guys.

***

Anyways, onto the topic.

Rush's lies were not harmful. Saying that there is an Icarus type planet within a year of where they are gives them hope - but also gives an out if they don't find it. After all, they do not control the course of the ship now do they? Young was just pissed that he didn't come up with an idea.

Hammond and Jack have lied to their subordinates on innumerable occasions, as did Sheppard. Those in command do not always tell the truth, not only because it's bad for moral but because they can't always tell the truth. A white lie is better then telling everyone "you're all gonna die, so kiss your ass goodbye". That being said, Rush is not a leader. He is a scientist. He is not trained with how to deal with people in these situations, he is literally guessing because he lacks the usual social graces and doesn't have anything to fall back on.

I think the problem is, as has been said, that it was Rush who mentioned the planet. If it were Young it would have been forgiven.

The reality is, no one on board has the ability both mentally and intellectually to deal with this situation. They are all doing the best they can.

And for some reason that just feels contrived to me...I just can't bring myself to believe that is the truth.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Let's take a time out guys.

***

Anyways, onto the topic.

Rush's lies were not harmful. Saying that there is an Icarus type planet within a year of where they are gives them hope - but also gives an out if they don't find it. After all, they do not control the course of the ship now do they? Young was just pissed that he didn't come up with an idea.

Hammond and Jack have lied to their subordinates on innumerable occasions, as did Sheppard. Those in command do not always tell the truth, not only because it's bad for moral but because they can't always tell the truth. A white lie is better then telling everyone "you're all gonna die, so kiss your ass goodbye". That being said, Rush is not a leader. He is a scientist. He is not trained with how to deal with people in these situations, he is literally guessing because he lacks the usual social graces and doesn't have anything to fall back on.

I think the problem is, as has been said, that it was Rush who mentioned the planet. If it were Young it would have been forgiven.

The reality is, no one on board has the ability both mentally and intellectually to deal with this situation. They are all doing the best they can.

And what happens when one year becomes 2 years, then 3, then 4 and they still haven’t found the planet? You think everything’s going to be cheery and happy, morale will be wonderful? Don’t try and pass this up as “everybody picks on poor widdle Rush” if the roles were reversed and Young had lied while Rush had told the truth I would have supported Rush. As for people like O’Neill or Sheppard lying to their subordinates give an example, because I don’t ever remember O’Neill feeding the rest of SG1 a line of bull. In eps like within the Serpents Lair O’Neill didn’t tell sg1 everything was going to be fine and dandy when they prepped the c4 to blow up the Goa’uld ships and themselves along with it, he was honest with them.

[Deevil]

And for some reason that just feels contrived to me...I just can't bring myself to believe that is the truth.

It's very believable. Put anyone in an unknown situation, people are going to be flying blind.

And what happens when one year becomes 2 years, then 3, then 4 and they still haven’t found the planet? You think everything’s going to be cheery and happy, morale will be wonderful?

As I said, they don't control the damnable ship... anything is possible.

Don’t try and pass this up as “everybody picks on poor widdle Rush” if the roles were reversed and Young had lied while Rush had told the truth I would have supported Rush. As for people like O’Neill or Sheppard lying to their subordinates give an example, because I don’t ever remember O’Neill feeding the rest of SG1 a line of bull. In eps like within the Serpents Lair O’Neill didn’t tell sg1 everything was going to be fine and dandy when they prepped the c4 to blow up the Goa’uld ships and themselves along with it, he was honest with them.

There was no use lying the SG-1 because they weren't stupid Mighty. Half the time Carter or Teal'c came up with teh reality of the situation befor Jack did. Jack's line of subordinates went further then SG1, but an example would be Shades of Grey. He lied for a reason, but he still lied. In the Line of Duty, Divide and Conquer, actually there are a number of episodes in season 3 where this happens. They are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Telling the whole truth is rarely the best idea.

Someone has to tell a white lie to the crew on Destiny, because the more moral goes down the more dangerous it's going to be on the ship. Spencer may be the first of many suicides.

[aretood2]

It's very believable. Put anyone in an unknown situation, people are going to be flying blind.

And this is where we can't see eye to eye. The whole turning a dog into a cat thing. TPTB is trying to turn Stargate into something it wasn't before, it's not working for me because its in the same cannon universe. Compare the Destiny crew with everyone else in SG-1 and SGA...it just doesn't work well and I am guessing that this is why I feel that the drama is contrived.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

There was no use lying the SG-1 because they weren't stupid Mighty. Half the time Carter or Teal'c came up with teh reality of the situation befor Jack did. Jack's line of subordinates went further then SG1, but an example would be Shades of Grey. He lied for a reason, but he still lied. In the Line of Duty, Divide and Conquer, actually there are a number of episodes in season 3 where this happens. They are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Telling the whole truth is rarely the best idea.

Someone has to tell a white lie to the crew on Destiny, because the more moral goes down the more dangerous it's going to be on the ship. Spencer may be the first of many suicides.

So everyone on the ships stupid then? Because Young found out pretty fast. As for Shades of Gray O’Neill withheld information from his team to remain undercover, hardly comparable to the situation on the Destiny. As for the other examples if you wouldn’t mind elaborating because I don’t remember O’Neill lying.

[Deevil]

So everyone on the ships stupid then? Because Young found out pretty fast.

If I remember correctly, Young didn't figure it out.

As for Shades of Gray O’Neill withheld information from his team to remain undercover, hardly comparable to the situation on the Destiny. As for the other examples if you wouldn’t mind elaborating because I don’t remember O’Neill lying.

Jack lied! The End. The reasons for the lie do not matter, he lied to his subordinates. That was what the issue was, not whether not he lied for a valid reason.

In the Line of Duty he lied to Sam.
Divide and Conquer he lied to everyone until the end.

So many more examples, so hard to remember episode names.

[aretood2]

If I remember correctly, Young didn't figure it out.



Jack lied! The End. The reasons for the lie do not matter, he lied to his subordinates. That was what the issue was, not whether not he lied for a valid reason.

In the Line of Duty he lied to Sam.
Divide and Conquer he lied to everyone until the end.

So many more examples, so hard to remember episode names.

But he didn't lie to keep up morale which is what they are arguing.