'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[Stewart5]

Rush tried to give the crew a morale boost, soething to aim towards. Young, in his idiotic vendetta, blows it apart to try and make Rush look bad. Not only does this demoralise the crew, it undermines Rush and it causes emnity and distrust towards Rush, biasing the crew to the Colonels opinions and not the merits(or lack thereof) of the prof's actions. Its petty, vindictive and conduct unbecoming any officer, even in the US military.

[jelgate]

Rush tried to give the crew a morale boost, soething to aim towards. Young, in his idiotic vendetta, blows it apart to try and make Rush look bad. Not only does this demoralise the crew, it undermines Rush and it causes emnity and distrust towards Rush, biasing the crew to the Colonels opinions and not the merits(or lack thereof) of the prof's actions. Its petty, vindictive and conduct unbecoming any officer, even in the US military.

Its been my experence with you try to boast morale with false information in the long run it tends to have more negatives consquences then positive when the truth comes out.

[aretood2]

Huh? Since when has Rush's actions psychologically affected the entire crew, apart from framing Young he has done nothing that has adversally affected the mental state of the crew. Well, you could say taking them there did that, but we don't know if they would have been dead if he didn't so I'm not going to argue that one. It's better to be traumatised then dead.

For me, its not what he has done, it's what he has not done. Then again going crazy out of coffee withdraw doesn't help...

[Stewart5]

Sorry Jel, I forgot you are always right. Take it you know a lot about morale in survival situations.
And as far as I remember, didnt Young and TJ tell people in Time it was going to be okay, but they all died. Or is it okay for Young to do it because you all like him?

[jelgate]

Sorry Jel, I forgot you are always right. Take it you know a lot about morale in survival situations.
And as far as I remember, didnt Young and TJ tell people in Time it was going to be okay, but they all died. Or is it okay for Young to do it because you all like him?

Why don't you attack the point instead of attacking me?

And I don't remember this scenario happening. Maybe you are referring when TJ omitted information Water which is a lot different then lying

[Stewart5]

No, am pretty sure that the officers tried to reasure the sick and dying. I would genuinely appreciate if you could show me evidence to the contrary.

Firsly, I didnt attack you. Secondly, I did make a reply to the point.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Rush tried to give the crew a morale boost, soething to aim towards. Young, in his idiotic vendetta, blows it apart to try and make Rush look bad. Not only does this demoralise the crew, it undermines Rush and it causes emnity and distrust towards Rush, biasing the crew to the Colonels opinions and not the merits(or lack thereof) of the prof's actions. Its petty, vindictive and conduct unbecoming any officer, even in the US military.

Lying to the people under your command isn’t the way to go, As for it boosting morale, well as soon as it gets out it’s not true morale will plummet. Young did the right thing by exposing the lie. In the military infomation is withheld yes, people get given details on a need to know basis, but that's a far cry from outright lying to people under your command. If you want people to trust you and work with you then that is not the way to go.

No, am pretty sure that the officers tried to reasure the sick and dying. I would genuinely appreciate if you could show me evidence to the contrary.

That’s rather different to the people on the Destiny however who have the rest of their lives to live out regardless of whether they get home. And from my own experience of sick and dying people, they’d rather hear the truth of what’s going on than some sugar coated lie.

[Stewart5]

And yet, in more than one SG/SGA episode, a lie has been told for some reason or other, and in the end everything turns out for the best, and said person is a jolly good chap. It's only because it was Rush that there is such a fuss.
In fact, once more the Rush argument is getting pretty boring, because you have all made up your minds and won't allow any other option that Rush is bad and everything he does is bad.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

And yet, in more than one SG/SGA episode, a lie has been told for some reason or other, and in the end everything turns out for the best, and said person is a jolly good chap. It's only because it was Rush that there is such a fuss.

Example?

[Stewart5]

give me a minute or two and I shall find some

[EllieVee]

I disagree with that. I think he has been a detriment to the emotional stability of the crew with the manner in which he carries out his so called actions. If you create a bad psychological environment you create chaos.
He foments distrust . A little leaven ferments the whole lump, and Rush is that leaven.

Insert Young instead of Rush and you are actually right. Young is spying on people; Rush is not. There isn't an example you could come up with in any episode other than lying about the Icarus planet (done to stop people moping) that he's been a detriment. Indeed, he seems to be the only one keeping things working.

Huh? Since when has Rush's actions psychologically affected the entire crew, apart from framing Young he has done nothing that has adversally affected the mental state of the crew.

And given only Young and Eli know about it then it hasn't affected anyone else.

Well, you could say taking them there did that, but we don't know if they would have been dead if he didn't so I'm not going to argue that one. It's better to be traumatised then dead.

But we have argued that previously, Dee, and it hasn't stopped the accusations, which almost to a one are completely unprovable. See above post from Girlbot.

Its been my experence with you try to boast morale with false information in the long run it tends to have more negatives consquences then positive when the truth comes out.

Care to share examples of that experience?

For me, its not what he has done, it's what he has not done. Then again going crazy out of coffee withdraw doesn't help...

Um, huh? So, you're now having a go at Rush for being sick from caffeine withdrawal? And please, what has he not done?

[Stewart5]

Right, a can't find it, but I KNOW there is that ep where Jack tells bold faced lies to Hammond (and not about Abydos).
Any help finding it would be good.

So M6P, your men are going to a mission they probably won't come back from, and you will just tell them to their face "most of you won't be coming back guys. Sorry!"
Or would you tell a llie to keep their spirits up?

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Right, a can't find it, but I KNOW there is that ep where Jack tells bold faced lies to Hammond (and not about Abydos).
Any help finding it would be good.

So M6P, your men are going to a mission they probably won't come back from, and you will just tell them to their face "most of you won't be coming back guys. Sorry!"
Or would you tell a llie to keep their spirits up?

Bull, you can’t even find any straight up examples of other characters lying to subordinates in the sgverse and it being shown as a good thing. Hammond last time I checked wasn’t O’Neill’s subordinate so the relationship is different, even then I can’t think of and you can’t provide any solid example where he lied to him.

As for suicide missions they tend to be undertaken by volunteers, press ganging people into missions like that tend to have poor results, they realise they’re on a suicide mission and say “sod this for a game of soldiers,” and sack it in. And even in all these examples you bring up your comparisons bluntly suck, with dying people, with suicide missions the people aren’t going to be around even if you do lie to them. Problem is with the Destiny crew they aren’t about to die, any lie about going home is going to be rumbled sooner or later. You want a proper real world comparison, in the first world war there was the belief in 1914 “it would be all over by Christmas,” you know how badly morale dropped as the war dragged on and on? Same thing with the Destiny, lie to everyone and morale might surge for a bit, in the long run though it’ll go down the plughole.

[Stewart5]

***** you. I don't like being called a liar by ignorant bullies. Just because I can't remember the name of the episode out of 200 +. I alos asked for people to correct me or help, but obviously you just want to be the big tough guy and bully your opinion on some more people.
I've had enough time arguing with idiots in RL who aren't willing to listen to other people's opinions wihtout listening to the same crap here.

And the WW1 example was poor, because it wasn't a lie; they genuinely believed it would be.

You want another example then, BSG, Adama lies to them all. But because he's a good old guy that everyone respects, he's allowed to do it.

[aretood2]

Um, huh? So, you're now having a go at Rush for being sick from caffeine withdrawal? And please, what has he not done?

Why a go? What are you trying to prove? First you would say he is grey, you can't have grey without questionable actions and decisions. If he has done nothing remotely questionable than he is Black and white, not Grey.

He hasn't been anywhere near cooperative with the other scientists for starters, he is arrogant, full of himself, and disobeyed orders in dialing the 9th chevron. Before that he never, implied by him refusing to eat with Eli and the gang, shown interest in others.

He also seems to make hard decisions with out hesitation whatsoever...It would pass for a military commander who lives making those decisions but not a civilian scientist.