'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[Stewart5]

I'll assume that you are talking about Chloe...

Actually, not this time.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Actually, not this time.

mmmmmm, Chloe. Sorry what are we talking about?

[jelgate]

mmmmmm, Chloe. Sorry what are we talking about?

Well since you seem to be fixed on Chloe (get in line) lets talk about her as a lawyer

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Well since you seem to be fixed on Chloe (get in line) lets talk about her as a lawyer

She can defend me any time, Phwoar!

But seriously I get annoyed when people asked why Chloe was chosen to act as defence for Young. Having being a student of politics she will have an understanding of the legal framework, yes she won't be an expert but she'll be better than everyone else on the ship.

[EllieVee]

And guess what Jel, you've obviously missed part of the irony of my comment, as that sort of thing has been said about those trying to deffnd Rush. And I apologise if it seems arrogant, but if you back-read you will find numerous occasions where the replies to well-thought out and backed-up comments has been to either misdirect the focus of the conversation, or jus simple old 'you are wrong because Rush is bad'. Then again, it's only my opinion, which I am as entitled to as any other on this thread. But I forgot, a cannae say that. It's too rude and negative.

And what's notable is that those defending Rush aren't all 'You are wrong because Rush is good.' Indeed, there is an acknowledgement that Rush's actions are open to interpretation. What is being said is that there is not enough evidence to say 'Rush is bad.'

[chrono trigger]

that rush and youngs rivalry is the series best storyline im lovin there power struggle i just cant wait to see what rush does when he gets back and how young will react

[Pharaoh Atem]

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...ng-new-threads



and if you just start new ones, specific to an episode, in the general folder, that aren't unique enough to stand on their own, they'll just be merged into the main discussion thread, so please don't be surprised when that happens.

but on topic it should be interesting

[Deevil]

Saquist I ain't talking to you anymore. Your constant attempts to derail and argument by incorrectly assuming that your interpretation of events add up to the facts is tiresome and old. Why you cannot just disagree with an argument without pretending you hold the moral, legal or factual hugh ground s beyond my understanding and frankly no longer worth my time.

It is out of respect to you I have posted this rather then just ignoring your post entirely, but now - I'm done.

******

For me, Rush is far to grey to be considered a bad guy. His actions and apparent motivations behind them have been underplayed and thus entirely up for interpretation. Unfortunately, Young's and Greer's actions to a lessor extent) have not had the pleasure of being so understated and thus for me it's easier to point out their wrong doing because it is far more obvious.

That being said.... to move back to Justice entirely - I like Wray. She was in a seriously untenable position in this episode and when you have the military unilaterally deciding - against all evidence to the contrary - that Young is innocent and they should take out Wray... It makes everything very murky, and dirty.

I think it's gonna get interesting in future episode folks, because the military on board have proven that loyalty, no matter how misplaced, is superior to duty and common sense. That's scary.

[aretood2]

For me, Rush is far to grey to be considered a bad guy. His actions and apparent motivations behind them have been underplayed and thus entirely up for interpretation. Unfortunately, Young's and Greer's actions to a lessor extent) have not had the pleasure of being so understated and thus for me it's easier to point out their wrong doing because it is far more obvious.

That being said.... to move back to Justice entirely - I like Wray. She was in a seriously untenable position in this episode and when you have the military unilaterally deciding - against all evidence to the contrary - that Young is innocent and they should take out Wray... It makes everything very murky, and dirty.

I think it's gonna get interesting in future episode folks, because the military on board have proven that loyalty, no matter how misplaced, is superior to duty and common sense. That's scary.

While I can see what you mean when it comes to young, I'll have to greatly disagree with your comment regarding Greer.

[Stewart5]

I like the idea of Wray vs Chloe. Man, a'd pay to see that...in treacle....and an inflatable pool......erm, I mean *coughs* battle it out in a conflict of intellects,.....

[nx01a]

Chloe definitely shows up Wray's agenda [remove Young, get herself/the IOA in charge]. If Wray had a better grasp on handling people and situations and hadn't simply scrapped everything Young had in place just because Young put them in place, she wouldn't have ended up in the position she did: scientist brain fried. And Volker leading a team. Seriously? He of the nervous twitch? And Greer even more pissed off at her.

Chloe and TJ for command!

[blackluster]

Chloe definitely shows up Wray's agenda [remove Young, get herself/the IOA in charge]. If Wray had a better grasp on handling people and situations and hadn't simply scrapped everything Young had in place just because Young put them in place, she wouldn't have ended up in the position she did: scientist brain fried. And Volker leading a team. Seriously? He of the nervous twitch? And Greer even more pissed off at her.

Well Wray is in a tough position because I don't think she is a leader as such and she seems to be being coached on the fly by the IOA. If she has a secret agenda, it's getting home since she clearly misses her partner. As such her decisions will be coloured to that effect despite her IOA mentors (for instance I think the IOA would not have wanted her relinquishing command back to Young even if he was exonerated.) I think her decision making during her short stint was completely logical and any reasonable person on the ship would have seen that. As Deevil correctly states though, the military never had any intention of following her commands even after Young explicitly tells them that she is in charge. If people have decided from the beginning that they have no intention of cooperating it makes leadership impossible, thus the unfortunate circumstances that her leadership was held hostage before she even got a chance.

On Chloe, I think she showed herself competent enough for the legal role she had to perform. Her father seemed like a virtuous man and dedicated to not only his job as a senator but also to the responsibility of what it means to represent the people. Chloe has probably picked up that trait and was acting it out in Young's defense, not for him personally, but as a person who must be proven guilty first before punishment.

[Saquist]

*Happily sits on his high horse, firmly in the belief that both Young and Rush are as bad as each other and feels smug and superior.*

I will concur with that.
It would be poetic if they doomed each other.

Why it's ambiguous is because of the part of the episode that you seem to have forgotten:


And:


He is not referring there to the only chance for the ninth chevron; the conversation is clearly about the only chance not to die.

Ellie,

I'm not seeing what you see.
You said that Rush thinks it's their only chance not die?
Young just said...." You could have dialed somewhere else ANYwhere else."

Young says hundreds of possibilities.
The context of the conversation was Rush's choice to dial the 9th cheveron.
I didn't see anything in that quote about the odds of their survival except for Young...who says "ANYWHERE ELSE"
...is that the one chance you are referring to?

that rush and youngs rivalry is the series best storyline im lovin there power struggle i just cant wait to see what rush does when he gets back and how young will react

Saquist I ain't talking to you anymore. Your constant attempts to derail and argument by incorrectly assuming that your interpretation of events add up to the facts is tiresome and old. Why you cannot just disagree with an argument without pretending you hold the moral, legal or factual hugh ground s beyond my understanding and frankly no longer worth my time.

It is out of respect to you I have posted this rather then just ignoring your post entirely, but now - I'm done.

I had a hunch you would feel that way.
I speak facts. You speak interpretation.
It's easier for me to speak in facts and accuracies than to attempt to try and decipher a meandering interpretation.
It's about communication and Facts are the lowest common denominator in debate.

Thank you for your time, ma'am.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I think it's gonna get interesting in future episode folks, because the military on board have proven that loyalty, no matter how misplaced, is superior to duty and common sense. That's scary.

Loyalty comes naturally to people serving together, and it helps that in the military that duty is first and foremost to support the other men and women in the unit. Some of the military have fought and bled with Young, you can't get round the kind of loyalty and devotion that inspires and Rush needs to offer a seriously better alternative to Young in order for the miitary personnel to withdraw their support rather than being just as bad as him.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I like the idea of Wray vs Chloe. Man, a'd pay to see that...in treacle....and an inflatable pool......erm, I mean *coughs* battle it out in a conflict of intellects,.....

I can describe this in one word, YUM!