'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[blackluster]

Scientists like Rush and Jackson do not have the mandate to play with peoples lives, no matter how much bullsh*t words they dress up to talk about scientific progress. They aren't part of the military, or the chain of command, they have no part in making life or death decisions for those in the military.

Does this apply even when said scientists posses superior information and insight into the problem of an extent that the military command's experience is simply insufficient to properly weigh the factors? Even when time for debriefing is simply not available before an opportunity is permanently lost? Like it or not the Icarus project wasn't all about Rush and neither was the Stargate project all about Daniel. Especially in Rush's case, considering money and covert efforts that went into Icarus base, he was by no means the only person who realized some massive value in the project and it was quite clear in episode one that Rush was catching major heat for the project status. The point being that the decision to go to Destiny was not taken on a whim.

[Girlbot]

Concerning the Daniel problems. there was the time Daniel was acting as Yu's aide and he was supposed to destroy the Goauld, but he had another agenda with Sarah. Lots of innocent people's lives could have been saved if he would have just released the poison when he was supposed to. But he used an excuse.
I agree he should have been held accountable there, and Rush should be held accountable for making a decision that has cost lives already and how many more.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Does this apply even when said scientists posses superior information and insight into the problem of an extent that the military command's experience is simply insufficient to properly weigh the factors? Even when time for debriefing is simply not available before an opportunity is permanently lost? Like it or not the Icarus project wasn't all about Rush and neither was the Stargate project all about Daniel. Especially in Rush's case, considering money and covert efforts that went into Icarus base, he was by no means the only person who realized some massive value in the project and it was quite clear in episode one that Rush was catching major heat for the project status. The point being that the decision to go to Destiny was not taken on a whim.

If they have necessary information then they pass it on to their commanders, however at this point it is abundantly clear that Rush has no skills as a leader and is therefore not qualified to make decisions for the group.

[EllieVee]

Actually Young didn't go to save the Senator till after the gate had been dialled. He came back to the Gateroom, had an argument with Rush then went to save the Senator. Besides which it wasn't Rush's call to make, it was a military situation and I don't see that Rush has any qualifications to make military decisions. Young was on his way back to the Gateroom, if Rush wanted to try and convince him to try changing the address he could have.

I think part of the issue is that Rush didn't clearly explain what he meant and I suspect that was a previous issue. Or rather, previously, Rush didn't fully explain or Young didn't get it. I suspect the latter since Young's non too bright.

Rush clearly could not give a monkey's about anyone really on the ship. They're tools to him if he views them as useful in anyway, if they aren't useful to him he's very eager to discard them. He was pushing Young to stick Greer on the shuttle off the Destiny and he bloody knew that the ship would survive but he calculated that it would remove people who would be an obstacle to him.

No evidence of this whatsoever, Mighty One, and what is on the screen would indicate otherwise: the glancing at his watch, the check of the console, the uncontrollable giggling.

As for comparison to Daniel, well the military dealt with him unpleasantly, they nearly beat the crap out of him and rightly so, if someone one doesn't give you all the information in the military then their a liability and need to be removed. If Young wasn't himself having trouble holding it together as well as the crew, if there were better troops on board, then Rush probably after he got to Destiny would have found himself taken to a quiet corner of the ship and had found himself on the receiving edge of some steel capped boots and told if he put peoples lives in danger again, his life would be put in danger as well.

Because beating up the only people who know what's going on always helps?

From a tv show perspective I think the character of Rush is brilliant, but its his unpleasant qualities that make him so eminently watchable. He's narcissistic and sociopathic, manipulating and using people on the ship for his own ends, it makes for good tv, but Rush is not a nice person by any sense of the word. He's hardly the evilest character they've had on Stargate, this is the set of tv shows with previous villains who make Hitler look like amateur hour, and it would be wrong to describe him as a villain, he doesn't constantly seek the death of the crew, but he is a wildcard and not to be trusted.

Rush keeps being accused of being a sociopath yet, again, there's no actual evidence of this. Indeed, he's neither written like that nor played like that. It's an odd interpretation because there's simply not enough to go on. He's written as ambiguous and he's played that way.

If they have necessary information then they pass it on to their commanders, however at this point it is abundantly clear that Rush has no skills as a leader and is therefore not qualified to make decisions for the group.

I don't think Rush has any interest in being the ship's leader. He's only interested in the science.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I think part of the issue is that Rush didn't clearly explain what he meant and I suspect that was a previous issue. Or rather, previously, Rush didn't fully explain or Young didn't get it. I suspect the latter since Young's non too bright.



No evidence of this whatsoever, Mighty One, and what is on the screen would indicate otherwise: the glancing at his watch, the check of the console, the uncontrollable giggling.



Because beating up the only people who know what's going on always helps?



Rush keeps being accused of being a sociopath yet, again, there's no actual evidence of this. Indeed, he's neither written like that nor played like that. It's an odd interpretation because there's simply not enough to go on. He's written as ambiguous and he's played that way.



I don't think Rush has any interest in being the ship's leader. He's only interested in the science.

Rush has shown a distinct lack of empathy towards anyone on the ship, that's sociopathic behaviour. On top of that I think Rush is very interested in leading the ship, he wants to have control of the desiscions he just doesn't seem to have stumbled upon the idea that its hard to lead people when they hate your guts. And violence does work Ellie, its a tool in the military, one that might not be very nice but one that works.

[EllieVee]

Rush has shown a distinct lack of empathy towards anyone on the ship, that's sociopathic behaviour. On top of that I think Rush is very interested in leading the ship, he wants to have control of the desiscions he just doesn't seem to have stumbled upon the idea that its hard to lead people when they hate your guts. And violence does work Ellie, its a tool in the military, one that might not be very nice but one that works.

I would disagree with the lack of empathy. Not being all cute and cuddly does not negate empathy. The reaction shots would indicate empathy, though of course that's my interpretation (well, whose else would it be). A pragmatic approach does not mean sociopathic behaviour. As to being in charge, in Justice he didn't set it up that he would be in charge, he set it up that Wray would be. He could have done so and didn't. Personally, I think Rush should just go on strike.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Personally, I think Rush should just go on strike.

It's a bit late for him to do that isn't it?

[EllieVee]

It's a bit late for him to do that isn't it?

No, no, he could always do it in a moment of crisis.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

No, no, he could always do it in a moment of crisis.

Not at the current time he couldn't. I mean he could go on strike on his little planet but I'm not sure it will do him much good.

[EllieVee]

Not at the current time he couldn't. I mean he could go on strike on his little planet but I'm not sure it will do him much good.

True but when he gets back he can say something like, 'I think I'll stay in my quarters and recover from that rockslide.'

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

True but when he gets back he can say something like, 'I think I'll stay in my quarters and recover from that rockslide.'

I think when he gets back it'll be all change on the Destiny anyway, so they'll have bigger fish to fry than bickering with each other by that point.

[Saquist]

I think when he gets back it'll be all change on the Destiny anyway, so they'll have bigger fish to fry than bickering with each other by that point.

More than likely.

[Deevil]

I think when he gets back it'll be all change on the Destiny anyway, so they'll have bigger fish to fry than bickering with each other by that point.

When, I'm sure, Rush gets back on ship... I think there will only be bickering.

Young doesn't realise that when Rush comes back he really wont be able to trust Rush, because I believe Rush will systematically work to take Young down and enjoy every second of it. Young thought he was a personal threat (and it was all about that) then, wait until later - then Young will know what a personal threat Rush can be.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

When, I'm sure, Rush gets back on ship... I think there will only be bickering.

Young doesn't realise that when Rush comes back he really wont be able to trust Rush, because I believe Rush will systematically work to take Young down and enjoy every second of it. Young thought he was a personal threat (and it was all about that) then, wait until later - then Young will know what a personal threat Rush can be.

I think if, or rather when (who are we kidding) Rush makes it back to the ship, its going to go beyond petty bickering. The power structure of the ship will change considrably. The change in their situation and Rush's return will undermine Young's authority, the civilians won't listen to him and even the military personnel aren't exactly going to be happy with him. Even people like Greer and Scott are going to question the fact that he left Rush on the planet, marooned and then covered it up. I'd predict role reversal, Rush in control with Young on th outside as the wildcard.

[Deevil]

I generally agree with you Mighty 6, except that Rush really doesn't want to be in control. All he wants to do is deal with his little corner of the ship, he doesn't want to deal with the petty squabbles.