In Young we trust

[Replicator Todd]

*snorks* I trust him too, oddly enough. Greer is a guy you can rely on 100%.

Only if he is loyal to you, then yes!

[YutheGreat]

I feel that Young gets way too hard a time both on Destiny and on the forums and even (much as I hate to admit it) on the podcast.

Wray calls him a military dictator. Yes he is military, yes he is in command, that is not the same thing. When the civilians in Faith said they wanted to leave the ship, he let them. If he had truly been a military dictator he would have done what Rush suggested and rounded them up at gunpoint. He wouldn't be watching the civilians through the kino talking about how unhappy they are with him he would have had them rounded up and imprisoned at least.

The civilians are unhappy with him because he is in charge. They see him as the focus of their unhappiness, everything that goes wrong, the reason they are lost, alone and in danger is HIS fault when anyone who looks at the situation logically has to see that it isn't. Civilians (at least those from a democratic societies like in the west) don't like to live in an autocratic society because unless we make the choice to give up our democratic rights to be part of the military it makes us feel vulnerable and out of control. This impulse is ingrained in us our whole lives by the example of "reigns of terror" and all the other nasty things that other autocratic societies have done and suffered and how they have ultimately failed.

What everybody forgets though is that if the autocrat is a good man (and I haven't heard any of Young's dissenters call him bad or evil) and if there is an emergency, temporary situation comprising of a very small society (less than 100 people) then autocracy is the only way to go. Civilisations always begin that way after all, and the fact that they survive long enough to change is proof of how effective they are.

The problem occurs when the power is inherited, and instead of being given to the one who can do it is given to the son of the one who can do it (did you know that the Roman Emperor Nero was the son of a much loved and respected general? His is an extreme example). Or when the society grows so large and the civilians vastly outnumber the military and so they are not represented.

This is where BSG and SGU are different. BSG had a huge civilian population and so required a democratic system. There are less than 80 people on Destiny, at least a 3rd of them military, in a position where one person must be in charge - there is no time to vote on all decisons.

And who else wants command? Rush (the guy who is truly to blame for stranding them all on Destiny) or Wray (who was so bad at her job that she got stuck in the back end of nowhere).

Does anyone really think that Wray would be better at running the ship than Young? Or that Rush would put the welfare of the crew above his thirst for knowledge and exploration?

I will admit that Young is not perfect. He clearly has some issues, whether from PTSD from losing those 37 people under his command or from the subsequent lack of confidence in himself is not clear. But he stepped up. He has the experience to save lives and if he has difficulty treating the civilians as civilians rather than soldiers (he does yell a lot) he obviously does not value their lives any less. On several occaisions he has been willing to sacrifice himself for those under him, and not just those in uniform.

The way I see it, Young has made 3 mistakes. He slept with a subordinate officer, he balked at sacrificing Rush (as he saw it - if he had known it was Telford I think he would have done it with the knowledge that Telford had volunteered to endanger himself when he joined the airforce) and he marooned Rush. The thing with Rush though I even can explain - the guy pretty much told him "I am never going to stop trying to undermine/kill you". As I say the safety of the crew requires that one person be in command and anyone who goes against that is endangering everyone. That is after all what mutiny IS and why it is so harshly punished. I have always seen Young like the Captain of an old sailing ship. These guys would be referred to as "Master After God" because of the power they had, and needed. They were out of touch with their superiors for months at least with hundred(s) of people to look after and the need to survive all sorts of things, including enemy action.

Finally, if we discount the 3 mistakes I mention, EVERY decision Young has made has turned out to be right. Everyone was howling that Young was guilty of torture and murder when he spaced Telford, and yet he gained an ally and destroyed an enemy in one go.

I firmly believe that in giving up control of Destiny to LA he has them right where he wants them. He appears to have lost, and people are clamouring for his replacement, but have faith. He has an ace up his sleeve. Greer has the right attitude. In Young we trust.

Quite a post historically accurate. Dictators may be harsh but some get the job done. Well the founders anyway since the inheritors often as you say get too arrogant like Nero. It is the same thing in the East. In China several dynasties start off as capable and powerful leaders but later emperors get lazy and the empire falls apart then the cycle starts off again. One emperor in particular was responsible for creating more death in his reign than the hundreds of years before it but the end result was a unified China. (China used to be 7 divided kingdoms that often went to war with one another for hundreds of years.)

However, the problem with dictators is when they "cross the line" it happens the threat is real. Young has not crossed it yet but he is da** close to it. He needs to be reminded of that. I am not saying I am against it I am just saying the danger does exist.

[bobsuncorp]

One emperor in particular was responsible for creating more death in his reign than the hundreds of years before it but the end result was a unified China. (China used to be 7 divided kingdoms that often went to war with one another for hundreds of years.)

That was Quin wasn't it? I think I saw a Jet Li movie about that. I get most of my historical knowledge from movies and tv and Asterix and Bernard Cornwell books.

However, the problem with dictators is when they "cross the line" it happens the threat is real. Young has not crossed it yet but he is da** close to it. He needs to be reminded of that. I am not saying I am against it I am just saying the danger does exist.

I liked a quote I heard in the Tim Roth show Lie To Me (another british boy done good) "Do you know what they call a government that breaks the rules every time there is an emergency? A dictatorship". He was referring at the time to Homeland Security about to render a muslim immigrant to Guantanamo because they suspected he may be part of a terrorist cell - he wasn't.

I also read (in a scifi book so take this with a large amount of salt) that the Russian constitution of the USSR was a liberal document giving all sorts of promises about protecting civil liberties unless a state of national emergency was declared. Which happened very quickly. Kind of like Chancellor Palpatine in his path to make himself emperor.

[TENTHIUS]

In Young we trust...do we?

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

In Young we trust...do we?

yes

[Kaiphantom]

Yup, trusting Young works GREAT! Just ask Rivers! And Riley! And TJ's baby! ^_~

Heckuva job, Youngy!

[Ashman]

Young is good just him time. BTW Commander's listen to advice when they ask for it, not when others try to give it.

[JustAnotherVoice]

Yup, trusting Young works GREAT! Just ask Rivers! And Riley! And TJ's baby! ^_~

Heckuva job, Youngy!

With that weedy moustache, Rivers got everything he deserved, and deserves everything coming to him for getting TJ's baby in the crossfire! Now, if he had a Tom Selleck, things would have been different.

[PG15]

Yup, trusting Young works GREAT! Just ask Rivers! And Riley! And TJ's baby! ^_~

Heckuva job, Youngy!

You know, if this wasn't an attempt at a joke, I'd probably say something like: better than trusting Rush! Just ask...everyone on Destiny!

But, since this was an attempt at a joke, I won't say that.

By the way, the number of people Young's lost is a lot less than the number of people Hammond and Weir lost in their show's first seasons. In Young we trust indeed.

[Kaiphantom]

You know, if this wasn't an attempt at a joke, I'd probably say something like: better than trusting Rush! Just ask...everyone on Destiny!p

Yes, but Young is in charge, Rush isn't. ;p And funny you should mention "everyone on Destiny" because everyone on Destiny is about to die. Or at least the military. Of course, they have plot armor so people are going to survive, but if it were really realistic, a ton of people would be about to die.

But, since this was an attempt at a joke, I won't say that.

Cute. And everyone sees through it. =)

By the way, the number of people Young's lost is a lot less than the number of people Hammond and Weir lost in their show's first seasons. In Young we trust indeed.

But very few to bad decisions, and they made tons of really good ones. People can die even despite good decisions. And, as we've already established, SGU is a different type of show, and thus not comparable to SG-1 and SGA.

[GateroomGuard]

With that weedy moustache, Rivers got everything he deserved, and deserves everything coming to him for getting TJ's baby in the crossfire! Now, if he had a Tom Selleck, things would have been different.

Yeah 5 minutes after being taken hostage he'd already be a member of Kiva's book club if he had the Selleckstache.

[PG15]

Yes, but Young is in charge, Rush isn't. ;p And funny you should mention "everyone on Destiny" because everyone on Destiny is about to die. Or at least the military. Of course, they have plot armor so people are going to survive, but if it were really realistic, a ton of people would be about to die.

Rush certainly thought he was in charge when he dialed Destiny.

Cute. And everyone sees through it. =)

I would hope so; it's not like I tried to be subtle.

People can die even despite good decisions.

Indeed.

Innnnndeeeeeeed.

[Kaiphantom]

Rush certainly thought he was in charge when he dialed Icarus.

"Thought" being the key word. And this thread is about Young, not Rush. By trying to go down this path, you're trying to distract people from the main point. Usually people only do that if they realize their main point is on shaky ground. =)

[/quote]Indeed.[/QUOTE]

So, I guess we're agreed that Young has issues and should be relieved of command. ^_^

[PG15]

"Thought" being the key word.

And it showed how he'd command if given the chance.

And this thread is about Young, not Rush. By trying to go down this path, you're trying to distract people from the main point. Usually people only do that if they realize their main point is on shaky ground. =)

Actually, Rush was mentioned in the first post of the thread as another candidate for commander, so no distraction needed. Besides, I'm not here to make any giant arguments like some of the others in this thread; I'm just here for a spot o' fun.

So, I guess we're agreed that Young has issues and should be relieved of command. ^_^

Issues? Sure. Who doesn't?

Relieved of command? Let's see what the writers have for Season 2.

[Kaiphantom]

And it showed how he'd command if given the chance.

Based on Justice, I'd say you're wrong. He has no real interest in command, just in being free to conduct science however he'd like. So, at best, head of a science team.

Actually, Rush was mentioned in the first post of the thread as another candidate for commander, so no distraction needed. Besides, I'm not here to make any giant arguments like some of the others in this thread; I'm just here for a spot o' fun.

Well, it's a bad argument to make to me. I actually agree Rush isn't a good person for overall command, either. While I like his cold logic, I recognize he doesn't have what it takes either. My whole argument has been, "Well, Young seems bad. Perhaps it's time to try some other people in command, and see how they do. If they are worse, fine, we'll go back to Young. But we won't know if they are better or worse until we try."

Personally, I'd try Wray out. She seems a bit more level-headed at least.

Issues? Sure. Who doesn't?

Relieved of command? Let's see what the writers have for Season 2.

People in positions of authority, though, are held to a higher standard, because they have command over the lives of other people. And some people have less issues than him at the moment.

LIke I said, if this were reality, Young would have just gotten EVERYONE killed. Rush may have stranded them, but they were still alive. But they have plot armor, so probably all will live through it. Except for Telford, perhaps.