'Incursion, Part 2' (120) General Discussion

[Blackhole]

People never screw up in real life? Most of the time in a first part of a 2 parter they will always be some kind of screwing up involved. On TV, it's better when characters screwing up also have some redeeming value (to generate some empathy on the viewers).

Of course they screw up. At the end of the episode LA is in full control and all the military are about to be killed. Young was the commander who made a string of bad decisions with catastrophic effects.

Ok, giving out the computer control was kind of strange but he had a plan to get back the control by using his inside mole (Telford).

The thing that I really didn't understand is how everybody got captured at the end. I didn't rewatch the episode. I was like:"What just happened there". Aren't people like Young semi-automatic gun carriers and protected by soldiers? (maybe I missed something in the episode).

Telford's plan was far too risky as demonstrated by what happened.

Ok, he should have vented the room despite Telford being there in the previous episode. But with all the hostages there, including his wife and kid, that's simply crazy. Murderous. You would make the worst hostage negotiator in history!!

It was the only option that gave them a chance of survival. He needed to cut his losses. Doing nothing would only make matters worse; which they did. Young's inability to make the hard decisions is what created the whole fiasco.

Not because you can't see it, the writers couldn't. We'll judge the resolution when we get there.

We will have to wait and see.

Still personally I don't think it was a great cliffhanger. Because it was not a game changer, we don't have anything to think about (as I explained in my review above). It was a cliffhanger, it was ok.

It was very suspenseful but for me it felt over the top and contrived.

[xXValaXx]

IKARUMBA

Now that is what i call a finale. But october is waaaaaayyyy too long to wait to find out what happens though i'm looking forward to it. I reckon Eli will save the day some how

[LtColCarter]

IKARUMBA

Now that is what i call a finale. But october is waaaaaayyyy too long to wait to find out what happens though i'm looking forward to it. I reckon Eli will save the day some how

Hopefully it won't only be him...that'd be too predictable

[Blackhole]

Yeah, who ever said people should make sense in their actions!!!

Sorry but your statement doesn't make any sense to me.

[LtColCarter]

Sorry but your statement doesn't make any sense to me.

he/she is saying that sometimes people's actions don't make sense.

[Blackhole]

he/she is saying that sometimes people's actions don't make sense.

If he is referring to Young's actions then I agree with him. Unfortunately, those aren't the traits I like to see in a commander.

[Commander Zelix]

I've stopped trying to figure people out.

I must say, it's still one of my favorite activity.

"Look at that idiot. What the hell is he doing?" should be printed on my shirt so I would only have to point it out, and I wouldn't have to say it out loud that many times to people hanging out with me .

Sorry but your statement doesn't make any sense to me.

You're acting like Carter mixed with Scott. (or a clock without a satellite, to be more precise).

[xXValaXx]

Well i think Telford is as good as dead i mean they kinda jist left him there. I reckon the Lucian Alliance dude that kept talking to TJ was maybe feeling sorry for them in some way and wanting to be on their side instead of Kiva's. Scott & Greer have GOT to make it, i reckon they'll make it just on time and as for TJ that was intense!

I think they'll all be safe enough, Rush i'm sure will have something up his sleeve but if that will be a good thing or a bad thing i don't know! I reckon they'll start shooting when the lights are flickering and they'll go into FTL then Young and the miliitary will regain control. It's Chloe i'm concerend about, she's bleeding out slowly

[BadOnion]

This final was just amazingly slow and boring. I cannot imagine so many cliffhangers and threats of death being so dull like this, but they were. I just don't find myself caring about the fate of anyone except the ship at this point.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

The very last scene at the end, where Young looks up towards the ceiling--


I don't think Young was thinking about his past mistakes at that precise moment.
I think Young was watching the clock and making a very calculated move. The fact that he refused to kneel was brave enough, because I fully expected the LA guy to whack Young's knees at any moment. But Young was also keeping a very close eye on the 46 minute windown time for when the next gamma burst would/might occur. When he looked up and the lights began to flicker, the next move will be a very calculated move -- just as it was when Young was clock-watching over bringing Telford to the brink of death and then doing CPR on him.

Same idea, but different situation. ....


....As for Wray, she reminds me of a typical liberal nice lady who believes too much that in being kind would grant kindness in return. She wasn't prepared for the stark reality of Kiva being so ruthless that Kiva would drop a dead body as the 4th prisoner exchange.

I view that last scene the same way; not as woe-is-meing over mistakes and more how-many-seconds-till-the-lights-go-out.
Wray - yes, she lives/d in a nice world where talking could solve everything. Now I wonder if her attitude will change?

People never screw up in real life? Most of the time in a first part of a 2 parter they will always be some kind of screwing up involved. On TV, it's better when characters screwing up also have some redeeming value (to generate some empathy on the viewers).

...

One of the things I'm finding really enjoyable about SGU is that we see mistakes, and they're not little mistakes or swept aside a whoosh of derring-do sort of mistakes. We see the mistakes and we see the consequences of them. Maybe it's just not something we're used to seeing? I'm not just talking about Stargate here, so don't flame me, I'm talking about tv sci-fi in general. I'm thinking of the finale as a three parter, with the first epi in the new season as where it gets turned around. If you watch a lot of movies, it's common for the heroes to come up from behind, to not win two minutes in, which is what would have happened if Young had vented the atmosphere

I disagree.

Young completely lost his control once Kiva had taken hostages. Look at his emotional outburst to Park and he and Rush almost came to blows when Rush accurately criticized his tactics. I can see him hesitating to delay the air evacuation to try to save his friend Telford but to turn over food and water and then computer control to Kiva was incredibly stupid. Once Kiva shot that hostage he should have known she is not to be trusted or reasoned with. He should have evacuated the room to near vacuum to incapacitate them and then sent in an armed team to dispatch any LA still consciousness; immediately followed by civilians to attempt resuscitation (if possible) of all the hostages. Rush was right, Young needed to act and cut his losses but he didn’t and was completely paralyzed by his fear of hurting anyone. Relying on Telford's plan was asinine.

I think Young lost control not because of criticism of tactics but because of the callous way that Rush referred to the deaths of one of Young's men. As for the rest, it's very easy to say he should have done this that or the next thing but his character is written a certain way and that colours the decisions he makes. Not all the best decisions but I'll take human error over a character that never makes any

[Blackhole]

I want to clarify what I have said. If SGU plans on later replacing Young as commander because of his actions in this episode then I would feel much better with what has transpired. Watching his character crumble would be an interesting story arc to develop especially if there is conflict surrounding replacing him. But if he is left in command then I am going to have trouble maintaining my suspension of disbelief that Earth would not act to replace him.

Given the dire straits everyone on Destiny is in any miraculous rescue would be too much to swallow. Hopefully an arc will be developed where LA assumes temporary control of the ship. I would view a quick resolution of the crisis as a deus ex machina and feel cheated.

[LoneStar1836]

I guess I was expecting more from this episode, so I have to say it failed to impress. It had some great scenes but overall I'd say uh...meh...which is kind of .

Yeah, you get the nice cliffhanger in so far as "just how are they going to get out of this situation?" because obviously the characters who count aren't going to die...no matter how much I'd like for one in particular to. Though I have to still wonder about Telford's chances. Don't think he is dead just yet, but as soon as he came aboard Destiny, I figured he was a dead man walking...it's just a matter of time.

Liked:

- The deal with the star's radiation adding to the urgency.
- Buying some time with the idea to adjust the shields.
- Kiva trading Rivers as the 4th.
- Scene with Rush/Young about it only being Rivers who was killed. Best bit of dialogue/scene in the whole episode for me.
- Telford drawing down and getting shot. Totally saw it coming but liked it anyway...and I no I don't want Telford dead. I've actually liked his character from the start.

Don't care about in the least:

- Any and all Eli/Chloe scenes in the ep.

wtf?:

- The Young/Telford plan??? I guess I'm not seeing the big picture here. How was suffocating them with this plan any better than suffocating them with the status quo? Even more SG people were at risk of being killed with this one...LA realizes what's going on and pops all the civvies now gathered in one room like cattle. Whatever.... Just another example of Young not being able to make the hard decisions when he needs to.

SGA has done similar stuff to make it dark like that. It was kinda a dissappointment how she got shot. What if say Young accidently shot her in the crossfire or even Greer. Wow that would of been heavy.

Agreed. I knew it was coming in some form or another, but they went with the most predictable...least shocking...way. I guess I just wanted something darker...and Young or Kiva shooting her in front of him would have done it (f' Young up in the head even more because the show can certainly use an even crazier Young *evil laugh*), but they took the easy way out, imo, and had the red shirt soldier do it and then himself proceed to be killed.

[Briangate78]

I guess I was expecting more from this episode, so I have to say it failed to impress. It had some great scenes but overall I'd say uh...meh...which is kind of .

Yeah, you get the nice cliffhanger in so far as "just how are they going to get out of this situation?" because obviously the characters who count aren't going to die...no matter how much I'd like for one in particular to. Though I have to still wonder about Telford's chances. Don't think he is dead just yet, but as soon as he came aboard Destiny, I figured he was a dead man walking...it's just a matter of time.

Liked:

- The deal with the star's radiation adding to the urgency.
- Buying some time with the idea to adjust the shields.
- Kiva trading Rivers as the 4th.
- Scene with Rush/Young about it only being Rivers who was killed. Best bit of dialogue/scene in the whole episode for me.
- Telford drawing down and getting shot. Totally saw it coming but liked it anyway...and I no I don't want Telford dead. I've actually liked his character from the start.

Don't care about in the least:

- Any and all Eli/Chloe scenes in the ep.

wtf?:

- The Young/Telford plan??? I guess I'm not seeing the big picture here. How was suffocating them with this plan any better than suffocating them with the status quo? Even more SG people were at risk of being killed with this one...LA realizes what's going on and pops all the civvies now gathered in one room like cattle. Whatever.... Just another example of Young not being able to make the hard decisions when he needs to.


Agreed. I knew it was coming in some form or another, but they went with the most predictable...least shocking...way. I guess I just wanted something darker...and Young or Kiva shooting her in front of him would have done it (f' Young up in the head even more because the show can certainly use and even crazier Young *evil laugh*), but they took the easy way out, imo, and had the red shirt soldier do it and then himself proceed to be killed.

Green for you man! I am glad more than just you and I felt that there was something missing. As soon as the soldier was firing, I said, yup TJ is going down. The ship's shield is failing and they have to go to the outside to fix it or they will all die..........I mean been there done that. Having say the Smurf Aliens show up would of been perfect. Then the LA and the Destiny crew would have to get along to save the ship from the outside threat. It is like the pulsar came out of the producer's as....um mind There should of been something else more dramatic. As you said the episode just dragged for the most part. The last 2 or 3 mins were excellent, but an episode cannot be great if more than 50% is filler.

As per TJ have someone like Young or Greer accidently shoot her, or maybe Kiva shoots her, that would of been really powerful. Sadly, they went with the collateral damage, accidental cross-fire.

But, I see a lot of potential in the next season, but this episode is far from the best cliffhanger this franchise has given us.

[Blackhole]

I think Young lost control not because of criticism of tactics but because of the callous way that Rush referred to the deaths of one of Young's men. As for the rest, it's very easy to say he should have done this that or the next thing but his character is written a certain way and that colours the decisions he makes. Not all the best decisions but I'll take human error over a character that never makes any

I rewatched the scene in question. Young stormed into the command center and started yelling at everyone to fix the problem. When they attempt to explain that they didn’t know what was wrong he yelled louder don’t analyze but fix it. I think for a moment he was completely out of control and was hysterical. The expressions on all their faces confirmed that they had the similar thoughts. Rush was being Rush and tactlessly pointed out that Young’s fear to act and endanger anyone’s life was what was responsible for getting him killed. He knew that Young was paralyzed by his fear of doing anything that would risk the hostages’ lives and by default was allowing Kiva free reign. Rush spent a lot of time with her he knew the death toll was just going to rise the longer he delayed taking action against her. Rush rubbed Young’s nose in that reality and Young lost it and tried to attack him. Circumstances unfortunately proved him absolutely correct. It was Young’s inability to act that allowed the LA to take over the ship and put everyone’s life in peril.

I agree with your statement: “I'll take human error over a character that never makes any.” When you are able watch that scene again. I think the show is not just portraying a character that has made mistakes but as one that is psychologically crumbling. You can see it in Young’s face; he looked hysterical for a moment. Maybe The Mighty 6 platoon’s assessment that he has PTSD is accurate and intended by the writers. I am not bashing him. I would be extremely surprised if his mental state doesn’t continue to deteriorate over future episodes and is a major plot line.

[GATEGOD]

Am I really the only one upset that the random nameless soldier guy at the end who managed to kill half a room full of bad guys died!?! xD We need more random cool soldiers doing random cool heroics... and not dieing just cause they don't have names. If it was scott he wouldnt have died!