'Incursion, Part 1' (119) General Discussion

[Skiznot]

I just read the last few pages of the thread so forgive me if this has already been covered but:

If at the end both Young and Telford are alive, which one is now in charge of Destiny? I hope this doesn't and up a spoiler but I think it might be good for the story if Young dies and Telford is the new leader but there might be some trust issues there. I really like Young but it would be a bold story element that lets the viewer know that nobody is safe amping up the danger suspense for future episodes.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I just read the last few pages of the thread so forgive me if this has already been covered but:

If at the end both Young and Telford are alive, which one is now in charge of Destiny? I hope this doesn't and up a spoiler but I think it might be good for the story if Young dies and Telford is the new leader but there might be some trust issues there. I really like Young but it would be a bold story element that lets the viewer know that nobody is safe amping up the danger suspense for future episodes.

*cries a little at the thought*
Young can't die!
If Young is in charge of the Icarus Base and Telford is only in charge of the 9th chevron mission, doesn't that put Telford sort of under Young?
It's still pretty interesting though, you're right.

[Abiron]

Without getting into the incompetence or lack thereof of Young, there are a couple of things I'd like to point out:

1. Venting the gateroom before or even during the LA arrival would have done little, if anything. Atmosphere from the other end of the gate would have been sucked through the wormhole into the Destiny's gateroom, which would have continued until the gate connection shut down.

2. The LA know a lot more about Destiny than even Rush, apparently. What we know about the LA indicates that they would only want the ship if there was something of value to be gained from taking it over, and taking that something back to the Milky Way. I would be very surprised if they didn't have some idea of how to get home.

3. It seems obvious to me that the "mysterious force" that's playing havoc with the ship is Franklin. Destiny stopped because of the incoming wormhole, just as it did in Air, but something prevented the ship from re-entering FTL once the gate connection was terminated. Something killed the LA goon with the lockpick by attenuating the shield energy in the gap in the hull. And someting is messing with the systems and preventing either faction from regaining control. My guess is that the chair allowed Franklin to interface with the ship, perhaps mentally, and that it's taking him some time to get his brain around it. He managed to leave the chair room and find someplace to let it happen. I would not be surprised if Eli and Chloe find Franklin on the Destiny's real Bridge, doing what he can to protect the ship and his people. With Eli's help, he'll be able to do so.

Just my 0.02.

[nx01a]

Great episode.
-I hope the baby survives. It's the one character on the show I really care about.
-I love Destinklin! Er... Frankliny! Whatever. Nice job microwaving a bad guy.
-I'm a bit shocked that Young didn't vent the atmosphere from the get-go. Killing people who're obviously coming to kill you is a decision even Wray'd make.
-The firefight seemed a bit ridiculous.
-Young killed Rush AND Telford. Talk about a two for one deal! Nice reference to early SG-1 with the mind control death off-switch.
-Eli carrying his BFF. Aww.
-Eli 'accidentally' ending up in a section of the ship no doubt holding some massive secret... Hmph. It's a bit forced, but I'll work with it.
-Why on Lantea would the Lucian Alliance want a rickety old barge on the other side of the universe? Kiva had better have a dang good explanation. Maybe they're religious fanatics who worship the Ancients. Hmm. Nah. That was the Sodan. You better come good with an explanation, Kiva!

Can't wait for the finale!

[harakiri]

First of all I want to say the episode was good,and the one before this was also good.

When that is said I`d like to point out some of my concerns regarding all of this:
1. Why why why do we need an enemy from the Milky W.G ? Are the writers out of ideas?
If there was an "Icarus planet" I would assume earth (SGC) would know about it and been there long before LA could do anything about it. Which also brings me back to the start of the series "Air" ,those ships LA came with should`nt be a problem for the earth ships,and in this case, The General Hammond. General Hammond even had help from the defence on the planet as well. Well,back to the topic.
2. How could the LA know how to create door openers like that even with help from Telford? Its not like he can bring pictures of it back to the earth,and why would earth gather information about the doors? There should be a lot of other things to report back to earth with details about before the doors are discussed.
3. No matter if they brainwash Telford, making all this possible should have been a bit over their knowledge to actually manage doing anything with the information they get.

And that was only some of my concerns,but there`s other as well.
Since I have time to go into this a bit deeper I will do so.
Knowing Earth`s wide knowledge about the Milky way galaxy both from they`re own experience and from other Aliens, like the Asgard and so on I`d think they would know more about the planets capable of dialing to The Destiny than LA. For me its like the LA have got the whole "libraries",weapons,ships and knowledge of the Gould`s which I don`t understand.

What was T.J`s options to kill them all? Sit down have a cup of tea and ask them to go back? She`s a military,and even though I think showing human side I would expect her to be more concerned for the people on board Destiny than enemies like the LA. However now she`s in a lot of trouble. Jack was right when he said it should have been over by now. The gate room should have been without air when they got trough. The iris at SGC and the shield on Atlantis does kill people that tries to get trough and this should be the case here as well. I like Young so I don`t really blame him,but the orders from Jack should have been: "vent the room before they get trough."

Well,enough complaining...I think.
My hopes are that the LA is "bye bye" before the ending of next episode and the cliffhanger is something completely different than this LA-thing,something about the galaxy they`re in or the ship itself.

About the man who died from something unknown I was right away thinking that this could be the ship defending itself and the people who was there to start with. People starting to make holes and forcing doors to open on the ship should be "taken care of" if the humans cant. This might be far fetched,but I really have no better idea at the moment. Ancients,yeah its possible,but then again: that is in some way the ship anyway.
I did read something here about the LA had access to the shuttle and some controls,well there are still the problem with the ship being made by the Ancients and its not like they can come there and know how to operate the ship within an hour or two.

The really good things is that it was action and more action in the two last episodes,and we still have one more. And after that we`d have to wait an unknown time before we get the whole story of this. But let us hope the next season will be without any earth interruption,or planets in the Milky Way galaxy. Its however exciting that SGU became a success as it seem to have become.
Even though it might seem like I did`nt enjoy the episodes:I really did. Its only the part with LA I don`t feel fits in. 7/10 seems fair..

[Giantevilhead]

Without getting into the incompetence or lack thereof of Young, there are a couple of things I'd like to point out:

1. Venting the gateroom before or even during the LA arrival would have done little, if anything. Atmosphere from the other end of the gate would have been sucked through the wormhole into the Destiny's gateroom, which would have continued until the gate connection shut down.

Doesn't work like that. They've been to planets with poisonous atmospheres and the poisoned air on the planet doesn't go through the gate. Air from the LA base wouldn't get through to the Destiny.

[EllieVee]

Well, I'll give the captain obvious/obnoxious reply.
if he had done that then this would have been a half hour long episode rather than a 3 parter.
similar to the question of when frodo and gandalf decided to take the ring to mt doom, why didn't gandalf just summon his giant eagle friends and fly the ring into the mountain? the lord of the rings would have been a pamphlet rather than 3 books

Suspension of disbelief. The moment the audience loses it, you get the 'Hang on, but what about the giant eagles?' moment.

Yet, I didn't get that with Young. I just got that he's incompetent.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I thought he passed on it to be with Emily

It's mentioned by Rush in Justice for example.

RUSH: Well, you're the wrong man for the job, Colonel. I'm sorry to have to be the one to say it but I think you know it's true.

YOUNG: Do I?

RUSH: You don't believe in the mission. You resigned your position as S.G. leader because you didn't wanna make the hard decisions, the life and death decisions. Well, that makes you a liability. I'm not proud of what I did, but I did it for the benefit of everyone on board.

YOUNG: The end justifies the means.

Sure Rush isn't the most reliable person but I think it's fair to say that Young's problems with making the tough decisions is a theme of the character.

[EllieVee]

It's mentioned by Rush in Justice for example.

Actually, from Earth:

O'NEILL: Look, I offered you command of the expedition. You were my first choice. But you turned it down. Your exact words, as I recall, were, "I don't think it's still in me, sir."

[kwlafayette]

Without getting into the incompetence or lack thereof of Young, there are a couple of things I'd like to point out:

1. Venting the gateroom before or even during the LA arrival would have done little, if anything. Atmosphere from the other end of the gate would have been sucked through the wormhole into the Destiny's gateroom, which would have continued until the gate connection shut down.

Wrong. It has been established that things like water and air do not travel through the gate on their own. Atmosphere most definitely would not have been sucked through from the other side. There were a few orbital gates they dialed to from Atlantis, never any great sucking of air. They have dialed planets with poisonous atmosphere and come back without killing everyone on the base. They have gone to gates submerged in water without getting flooded out.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Actually, from Earth:

Indeed so I think it's a theme that Young really doesn't have command in him anymore. He's certainly a very damaged individual, him talking to Telford about his experiences in the SGC shed some light on that.

[garhkal]

Young didn't know the stones disconnected. He thought Rush would have died as well. And Young had no idea about the door openers, so why not give Kiva the chance to surrender, saving Telford and Rush? As far as he was concerned the LA had no way of getting out of the gateroom. If they didn't have the door openers and refused to surrender, he would have vented the atmo, but that should be the last resort if two of your people's lives are at stake.

If that was his only reason for not doing it there and then, he could have called for the stones to be disconnected this side. IMO his only reason for not doing so is he cared more for Telford than he does Rush.

if she thought he was no longer brainwashed, she wouldn't be handing over a weapon and giving up 6 of her men

Too true. Though she might have just done so, to test his loyalty.

Let's turn it around: What if Young HAD done it? Had just vented that room? We'd be 50 pages deep in multiple threads about what a heartless monster Young was to have done such a thin

I cannot see that. Especially since with ANY incursion type environ you WILL have deaths. To me it just makes more logical sense to kill the one of your side than wait till we have the hostage situation we do now.

He'll feel immediately better once he blames Rush.

I would love to green you for that, ut i cannot see ANYWAY he can lay any blame for this on rush''s lap.

And yes, the plot demands the LA be on the ship, so the main criticism comes down to: "Let's write in such a way that doesn't make people look like idiots." It's about willing suspension of disbelief. In this case, I have a hard time swallowing Young being a colonel at all, because a colonel is supposed to risk the lives of his men in smart ways.

Too true K. The way the powers that be wrote this, it makes that suspension of disbelief fall by the way side for the shear stupidity of it.

1. Venting the gateroom before or even during the LA arrival would have done little, if anything. Atmosphere from the other end of the gate would have been sucked through the wormhole into the Destiny's gateroom, which would have continued until the gate connection shut down.

Since when have we seen any thing like that happen? In the Watergate ep, no water came through. In that ep where they gated to a lifeless planet (or was it in space), none of THEIR air went through. In the ep they went to the 'mist' planet, none came through... See the trend?

[jelgate]

It's mentioned by Rush in Justice for example.



Sure Rush isn't the most reliable person but I think it's fair to say that Young's problems with making the tough decisions is a theme of the character.

Rush had just framed him for murder. I have a hard beliving his word

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Indeed so I think it's a theme that Young really doesn't have command in him anymore. He's certainly a very damaged individual, him talking to Telford about his experiences in the SGC shed some light on that.

Rush had just framed him for murder. I have a hard beliving his word

Both of these. Yes, I think Young is damaged, but I don't think we should be taking Rush's word for it. And being damaged doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing, it just means he doesn't want to do it, which is a distinction.

[Abiron]

You're all correct; atmosphere is not normally transmitted through the gate. Somehow I recalled that differently.