'Incursion, Part 1' (119) General Discussion

[jelgate]

The one big question I have about the episode is: Why are the Lucian Alliance using guns that shoot bullets? Weapons that propel little bits of lead at high velocity have mostly been unique to military from Earth. I'm pretty sure that there haven't been any in the Milky Way galaxy.

If someone had asked me in advance "If the Lucian Alliance were to get into a firefight, then what kind of weapons would they be shooting with?" I would have had to say Zats and staff weapons because most of their tech comes from the Goa'uld.

I dunno. It could be a writer's choice type thing for aesthetic purposes.

Otherwise, I really liked the episode. It's the first episode that I've watched twice and I'm about to watch it again to get a better look at those Lucian Alliance guns.

In past SG1 episodes the Lucian Alliance always carried projectile weapons. So while they have Goa'uld technology I buy it that they use guns over energy weapons

[jmoz]

It's still shooting fish in a barrel. So they are only trained at shooting static targets? Doesn't the room have balconies on both sides giving them good field of vision?

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

It's still shooting fish in a barrel. So they are only trained at shooting static targets? Doesn't the room have balconies on both sides giving them good field of vision?

It's still putting men in danger for no good reason. They had a good plan and it only failed because Young bottled it at the last moment. Any officer that puts his people in danger when there are perfectly good alternatives is a lunatic. Even though they could have good fields of fire, it's such a tight space casualties would be inevitable.

[major davis]

Ok so here we go, part 1 of the 2 part finale. Well, gotta say it was pretty good, I only gave it an A, or a very high B+. It started off good but then just dragged a little for me. You had this whole climax and them ready to fight head to head, then when the fight took place it lasted very quickly. It just seemed very rushed at parts. So let me separate this review between plot and character..

Plot

Very solid plot, but folks have complained in the past about SGU not being like SG-1/SGA or being annoyed at rehashed plots. Well this felt like SGA's "The Seige" and The Storm/The Eye, only it did not live up to those eps sadly. I actually saw Subversion part 2 and it was a great cliffhanger, but it's been done before, you will get a "First Strike" kinda feeling, you shall see.

Anyway, getting back to the plot. You had a couple of things going on, Eli and Chloe became totally separated from everyone else, which could be a good thing later...hint hint. I liked seeing the planet blow up and Carter flying away on the Hammond. It made it feel so Stargate. I loved that.

Characters

Young was not bluffing he planned to knock him out, or at least put him at near death to free him of the brainwashing. Scott, was not too happy for Young not telling him. I loved that, and Scott is actually starting to become a character I am enjoying to watch on screen. Greer and Chloe still need a lot of work.

I think there was some great moments like with Young and Rush fighting at eachother and then he realized Rush is correct. Wray was also very good in this episode as well. Acting as the negotiator.

This episode also shows Young's softer side as well as harder side. He was ready to vent atmosphere, but saw they brought Telford through the gate, so he did not want to sacrifice both Young and Rush.

Overall a very good episode, and I think the season finale is going to please some people and really disappoint others. Myself, I am pleased but there has been better Stargate and it was done both with SGA and SG-1

So a A- or 9/10!

I think its because they have no redshirts... Ive said it from day 1.... 80 people was to little to strand... Now if they have a few firefights they've already killed off like half there military and they're going to run out of people quick... never mind have no redshirts to play around with in future seasons.. If they just stranded like 130+... they would have a lot more redshirts to toy around with so we can have more action..

[jmoz]

Gate is what 4 person wide? They would, at most 4, come in such waves. They'd be disoriented for a good few seconds, just enough time for the 10-15 trained soldiers to fire at them before they can react. There are also the stairs where they can just stand and wait for them. High ground usually almost always wins. Yes, tight space, and all of the casualties would probably be on the Lucian alliance side. Maybe the bodies piling up in front of the gate might make some cover for the lucian alliance though, eventually.

[aaobuttons]

Eli and Chloe - I don't think their b-plot is filler at all. We've seen time and again in this show that there's no such thing as a thread that doesn't belong in an ep even if the payoff is a long way down the line, so while it may look like they're just wandering aimlessly and giving us the requisite character moments, I'm 100% confident that they are going to have a big part to play in the resolution of the story. I do kind of wish it had been Eli that had been shot though, so Chloe had to be the one looking after him.

But Chloe couldn't have carried Eli! lol

[jelgate]

I think its because they have no redshirts... Ive said it from day 1.... 80 people was to little to strand... Now if they have a few firefights they've already killed off like half there military and they're going to run out of people quick... never mind have no redshirts to play around with in future seasons.. If they just stranded like 130+... they would have a lot more redshirts to toy around with so we can have more action..

But there is no emotional of red shirts dying. And I have said since Day 1 you're paranoid. No one has died yet and we have had what, 4 deaths this season?

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Gate is what 4 person wide? They would, at most 4, come in such waves. They'd be disoriented for a good few seconds, just enough time for the 10-15 trained soldiers to fire at them before they can react. There are also the stairs where they can just stand and wait for them. High ground usually almost always wins. Yes, tight space, and all of the casualties would probably be on the Lucian alliance side. Maybe the bodies piling up in front of the gate might make some cover for the lucian alliance though, eventually.

And your speaking from what military experience? Your experience with weapons is what exactly? Young had a plan, a plan that puts none of his men in danger, expends none of his much need and precious ammunition and deals with the LA quickly, neutralising them at the press of a button, rather than risk a firefight that could go on for how long against an enemy that he has no idea about the composition of the LA forces, what their armed with or how many there are.

Young's plan would have worked perfect if he hadn't lost his nerve when he did. It's not just about winning, its about winning with least possible expenditure of personnel and resources.

[Briangate78]

But Chloe couldn't have carried Eli! lol

LOL, that would of been priceless. She would of just dragged him.

[major davis]

But there is no emotional of red shirts dying. And I have said since Day 1 you're paranoid. No one has died yet and we have had what, 4 deaths this season?

Paranoid... But for a reason... People are going to need to die... But tptb have limited themselves by having few military redshirts to kill... If the had more expendable people... We could see more firefights... So... Have redshirt deaths ever included emotion.

[jelgate]

LOL, that would of been priceless. She would of just dragged him.

We need to find Ancient wheelbarrows

[jelgate]

Paranoid... But for a reason... People are going to need to die... But tptb have limited themselves by having few military redshirts to kill... If the had more expendable people... We could see more firefights... So... Have redshirt deaths ever included emotion.

80 is expendable enough. We're down to something like 75 people. More then enought for future seasons

[garhkal]

And damm, where did the L.A. learn those tatics at???????? That was freak prefect.

Maybe they got those tactics from watching lots of SWAT movies and the COPS shows..

I don't know if it was Franklin- Rush was confused why the ship wasn't jumping to FTL, and from what we know that occurs when in the proximity of gravity distortions. They could be near something that is penetrating the failing shield in places.

Pulsar maybe..

Actually, it's a three-parter. Episode 201 is "Intervention (Part 3)".

Like Atlantis's the Siege..

i get how he did not know if it was rush or (the other guy) that came thru the gate....but 1-2 losses to keep destiny is well worth it...speshly seeing as how a lot of the nerds know how to control destiny now...i don't get y he risked it...

I actually give him cudos for NOT doing that. Though i wonder if it was more for not wanting to kill rush, or not wanting to kill Telford..

It would have been nice if he did that and they all just put on gas masks and were like what now fool

Gas masks won't do diddly squat without air to breath.

Secondly, and this is only a nit-pick, you had two heavily armed forces firing semi-automatic weapons throughout multiple corriders at near point-blank range and the worst of it was a few severly wounded?
I believe this rates right up there with the shooting abilities of "The A-Team"

That is true. There should have been a heck of a lot more dead and wounded..

I don't get why he didn't press the button, let them all fall unconscious, open the doors, toss some flashbangs in or something and then arrest all of them.

He wouldn't have even needed the flash bangs..

I thought about it and you're right. It was actually fairly easy to win... position all the soldiers in the gate room, let them fly through, and shoot them as they land. That or disarm them as they do if you want to stay civil about this.

OR as i mentioned elsewhere, block the gate so it could not have gotten a lock.

Really interested in how much more the alliance knows about ship

Obviously a lot more, since they have those door devices.

Hmm just remembered something Kiva knew the kino was a camera geez these Lucian people know a lot even small details.

Telford knows of them. so it is not hard to see her knowing.

Yeah, if the first two guys got mowed down then they woulda threw the flashbangs throught the gate.

How would they have known if the first few through got mowed down>?

Although her comment about civilians having control in out society was really cold. It sounds like she was trying to preach to Young again about her rights.

It did seem like a snap at young..

People keep saying that they should have vented the atmosphere - but, honestly, the only way that could have worked was if they had done so prior to the Lucian Alliance even arriving. They would have likely been able to open the doors before it really had any effect on them.

Being how quickly it took Telford to pass out, all those people in the gate room would have done so sooner.

In Subversion Rush says it could take him the rest of his life, and then within a few days including some time spent unconscious due to Telford 'dying' and with limited equipment compared to Icarus, he gets it to work. Seemed a bit fast IMHO. *shrugs*

How do we know it happened in the period of a day. We saw young get home, brief Oneill, Carter on the hammond get briefed, AND the hammond make it to the LA site..

I'm thinking that when the Icarus II planet blew up, a power surge occurred through the stargate which then went into the systems on board Destiny. When the "Unknown" fried that Lucian, it finally overloaded the systems and caused the ship wide malfunction.

On the other thread we are talking about that guy, it was my guess as well. Something happened when they dialed in, and it has caused issues on the ship.

#2. As other people have noted, Young had the superior position. They know people come flying in and land on the ground. Knock them out as they come in and take their weapons! Or vent the atmosphere! You're not gonna kill anyone, because the average human can be revived 5 minutes after being unable to breathe, with no brain damage. 5 MINUTES! That's more than enough time to round up the weapons and lock people in rooms. Rush, even if he was still in Telford's body, WAS IN NO DANGER. In fact, they should have vented the atmosphere the moment the first LA person came through.

Personally i would have had it vented the moment they saw the LA start dialing in.

It would have been a bit nicer if the LA had some kind of knock down everybody on the ship for 5 minutes sonar or some kind of big surprise of that type.

Like that stunner stick Todd used..

Not only do the numerous enemy control the gateroom they also have access to the shuttle. Meaning you have no way to resupply or escape. But the enemy does.

IIRC the shuttle is a ways away from the gate room.

i have decided that kiva is a be-atch. she was willing to kill TJ -The only medic on the ship. not to mention she was pregnant with a life. doesn't kiva have any morals?

Maybe that is WHY she chose her. To see if Young would give in.

Venting the atmosphere wont do much when they brought breathing apparatus with them,

All i saw were gas masks. Which don't do anything in an atmosphere less environ. AND if you have it evacuated before they got there, (ie started it when they first started dialing in), then they might not have even had time to get them on.

Geez, the guy really needs to be slapped upside the head. Which I guess is what Jack did, verbally at least.

I am hoping that slap in his face from jack, gets him to start actually ACTING like a full bird colonel.

[major davis]

Ok there's been more than 4....

Alan Armstrong
Sgt. Curtis
Andrea Palmer
Corpral Gorman
Sgt. Spencer..
At least 6 people in faith
At least 1 or 2 military redshirts in incursion 1 and probably more in part 2...

Thats a far cry from 4...

[jelgate]

Ok there's been more than 4....

Alan Armstrong
Sgt. Curtis
Andrea Palmer
Corpral Gorman
Sgt. Spencer..
At least 6 people in faith
At least 1 or 2 military redshirts in incursion 1 and probably more in part 2...

Thats a far cry from 4...

I don't exactly go around keeping a count. The point is its not that many in comparassion to the other Stargate series