Telford and the Scientists retreating?

[P-90_177]

Well, it is a bit 'Icarus is where we put the screw ups', though. Young's appalling and Telford's not much better. I realise there can only be one Jack O'Neill but sheesh, they couldn't ask the Asgard for some clones?

I wouldn't say Young is appalling in any way shape or form. In fact I think he is potentially better than jack. Certainly better than Shep. However Young lacks confidence and he also has problems dealing with the situation. Fact of the matter is as much as soldiers are trained to handle even the toughest situation it's not exactly common to be stuck on a rust bucket of a starship, billions of light years from home with limited supplies and 80+ people, most of which are civilians.I suspect Young may have also had someone die on his watch because of an order and that's made him second guess his decisions. (hence lack of confidence.) However the big difference between young and telford is while telford is a good soldier but a bad leader of men, Young IS a great leader of men. He's someone you'll respect and listen to because you know he'd lay down his own life to accomplish his mission, which at this stage is to get those people home.

[AtlantisRules!!!]

From a military point of veiw... if the Destiny would have exploded.. then the casualty number would be down three.

from a normal point of veiw.. They could have been folowing orders... or just cowards.

[creed462]

While it may have been logical, he no longer has any credibility. No mater weather they have to follow his orders or now, they no longer respect him. So moral is down when he is on board. This would effect their performance and everything else. Also the civilian may refuse to do what he says. It will be a sore spot from now on

[P-90_177]

While it may have been logical, he no longer has any credibility. No mater weather they have to follow his orders or now, they no longer respect him. So moral is down when he is on board. This would effect their performance and everything else. Also the civilian may refuse to do what he says. It will be a sore spot from now on

well of course. hence the reason why young is back in command and staying there. part of the reason for the whole cherade with the gate almost exploding was to shame telford and ensure they wouldn't try to set him up as a more permanent commander again.

[ckwongau]

He is in the end a US Airforce Colonel....if anything should be proof that he isn't it's that. So it isn't cowardice that made him leave. Having said that he is quite cold, logical and calculating and naturally since he had an out human insticnt would tell him to get out. However he would have also determine that there was no sense him dying with everyone else.

Yes , self preservation is a basic human instinct,and even human right.
But Telford should have tell the crew about his bail out plan in advance.
In his only defence ,Telford probably argue he need the crew's full confidence to execute the plan .
But when he cut and run in silence without telling the crew, without answering Scott's question

Scott said :Where the hell are you going ?

If Telford was following order or protocol ,he should at least have the decency to tell Scott where he was going ,or telling Scott ,that Telford is relieving his own command , and Scott Would be in charge until Young return in a few moment.
But no, Telford cut and run in silence, the crew was left in a confuse state,
wondering or believe Telford and his people was going to fix the problem,
Telford should tell the truth ,

like i am sorry , we are leaving

.He had plenty of time ,because they were not running ,more like they were in walking in hurry and in silence.Give the crew the truth ,and they had a few more moment to fix the problem themselve, instead of a few more moment of confusion .

Were Telford and his people afraid the crew would not let them leave?
That could be his defence, but it only show him how insincere and insecure about the people he said he is trying to save.If he doesn't have faith of the people he try to command , what businese does he had being there in the first place.

Young was right when he said

Colonel Telford removed not only any sense of command but the two scientists that designed and implemented the programme that was causing the crisis

Telford is not a coward ,just human , just not the right stuff for leadership.

If a fighter jet 's engine is failing, Does the pilot have the right to bail out ?
Yes!
But the decent thing the pilot would do is to make sure the plane is as far away from civilian as possible before bail out.
I think there were incident in USA, when pilot bail out and plane crash into civilian homes and kill civilian.

A few months ago a Chinese PLA pilot was hail as national hero when his J-10's engine fail , he refuse to bail out and flyaway from civilian poplution ,without any engine power he glided the plane and land the plane safely.Saving himself, the plane and many civilian lives.
It would be embarrassing for Chinese governement to admit a engine failure their most advance fighter ,but the pilot action was so heroic ,that he was publicly decorated as hero .

My point is decent ,heroic and selfless action is the different between heroic leader and normal human.

[Captain Obvious]

While it may have been logical, he no longer has any credibility.Also the civilian may refuse to do what he says. It will be a sore spot from now on

Not only will the refuse to do what he says, I would bet that we start hearing the phrase " I am going to run this by Dr. Rush" a LOT more often.

[Eternal Density]

Hypothetically, what would have happened if Telford and his scientists hadn't retreated?
I guess they would have soon enough realised that the ship wasn't actually blowing up and realised Rush was putting on a bit of theatre...

[Replicator Todd]

Telford's actions just gave the crew more respect towards Rush.

[Encoder]

Telford did what was best for Telford and that's that.

You could say he was following orders but in the end, he comes across as that kind of guy!

[ION'NOI]

There are cowards in the military. just like every other emotion it is part of human nature. to say the military is 100% non cowardly is ridiculous. you also have to realize the position the crew of destiny is in. they were forced to try this regardless of the risk and the people implementing the idea just cut and ran. These people are alone and now they feel more alone.

[prion]

In the end, Telford was responsible for the two civvies with him, so he had to bring them back. And I suppose, realistically, only an idiot would stay on board a ship about to explode. However, doesn't excuse his quick 'bug-out' without a single word, just running off for all intent and purpose.

So while Young can call him a coward, I don't think his action is going to end up behind bars. Which was obvious, since he appeared on Mrs. Young's doorstep...

[Lightning Ducj]

Telford's actions just gave the crew more respect towards Rush.

Not so sure on that. A sizable amount of the crew were willing to try the plan and Rush sabotaged it. Rush *thinks* the plan would've failed but he may have been wrong, and even if he was wrong, does anyone trust him that far to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's telling the truth

[Saquist]

I agree with everything else you've said, but I take (minor) issue with this. Just because someone's in the military doesn't automatically make them heroic. Neither does rank; "failing upward" applies just as much in the military as it does in the private working world.

Indeed.
I don't see it as an act of cowardice yet. But consider the story.
Rush had engineered the whole thing to get him off the ship.
If Telford had the courage to stay they would have engineered the confrontation between them once the truth came out and him staying aboard would have fortified the crew to his authority.

Instead he followed "orders" and left when he could have sent back the scientist instead. I chose to believe because of Telfords other actions that he is a coward.

I'm not sure about the actions he's about to take with Young's wife but, I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling.

[Kick-Kinsey]

Telford is not a coward ,just human , just not the right stuff for leadership.

If a fighter jet 's engine is failing, Does the pilot have the right to bail out ?
Yes!
But the decent thing the pilot would do is to make sure the plane is as far away from civilian as possible before bail out.
I think there were incident in USA, when pilot bail out and plane crash into civilian homes and kill civilian.

A few months ago a Chinese PLA pilot was hail as national hero when his J-10's engine fail , he refuse to bail out and flyaway from civilian poplution ,without any engine power he glided the plane and land the plane safely.Saving himself, the plane and many civilian lives.
It would be embarrassing for Chinese governement to admit a engine failure their most advance fighter ,but the pilot action was so heroic ,that he was publicly decorated as hero .

My point is decent ,heroic and selfless action is the different between heroic leader and normal human.

Telford and his eggheads were not going to save anyone by going down with the ship. It has been suggested before if one person dies when the body stones have their minds switched then unfortunately both people will die.
If the ship was Doomed then Telford couldn't have been a hero no matter what he did

Not only would 75+ people have died, you would have also lost
Eli + egghead 1
Chloe + egghead 2
Col Telford + Young

Anyway the whole doomsday thing never happened but I think by the way LDP's character is wrote, he's a person we are supposed to hate.

[wargrafix]

Telford was a coward. Can't do anything right. I would never accept leadership from him in any situation