'Earth' (107) General Discussion

[Arga]

I don't know about you but if I were Wray I would have taken the hotdog, or even 2!

I mean, didn't she miss real Earth food? Eli didn't hesitate with that coke and cookies!

[StarFighter]

Because it doesn't matter to the story.



The "plan" was the macguffin, aka the unimportant thing that is the excuse for the story, not the story. Science fiction shouldn't be about technobabble; it should be about how peoples are affected. The show is about the people; not the technology.

-frank

That is exactly what is wrong with this show. Something as scifi and cool as harnessing power from a star has been reduced to the macguffin. And science fiction IS about the technobabble. That is the whole point of a scifi show. The technology and SCIENCE FICTION are part of the story. Without the science, scifi, gadgets and action you have Days Of Our Lives, a soap opera.

[jelgate]

I want to know why Chloe was able to go on the Earth mission at all. Was it just to go visit mommy? Go party with friends? Get drunk? She is all upset that people have betrayed her but what is she doing to the girl's body she is using? Falling down drunk? She still has no respect for anyone other than herself as she doesn't even respect the woman whose body she is using! Drown in her own sorrows. Ugh, this girl is the WORST!

The whole issue of body swapping is out of hand. Apparently there are no rules or regulations at the SGC, or Homeland, or whatever they are now calling it, as Destiny folks seem to be able to travel anywhere and engage in any sort of rude, improper behaviors.

What is going to happen when all 80something of the Destiny folks start visiting friends and relatives? Does Homeland have 80 different staff members willing to swap bodies for sex, drinking, drugs, whatever? Or is there a designated staff of 10 or so who will do the "other duties as assigned"? Who is watching these people to be sure they aren't divulging state secrets to enemy countries? Who is in charge of providing birth control to the body swappers? Who was watching Eli and Chloe? (apparently no one.) I feel like I'm watching General Hospital.

Their are only 5 stones

[Lightning Ducj]

Their are only 5 stones

These are the wrong stones in the wrong place

[Eternal Density]

I tuned out when they did the pointless club scene.

I feel a strong urge to rewatch that a few more times...

[Alder]

Their are only 5 stones

"There are FOUR...STONES...!" *cough*

Sorry, TNG flashback. Anyway...

I found that episode somewhat spotty again. I think I'm just not terribly keen on the off-ship stuff. The getting hammered/having sex in someone else's body just creeps me out. I mean, if you borrowed someone's car and trashed it, they'd be pretty ticked off, let alone the body they actually live in...
And we popped into a sun to top up...again...takes a little of the coolness off. Telford I have an urge to slap, and not in a good way, but in a bored, "och, just go..." way.

On the other hand - lovely outside shots of the Destiny, both general ones and when firing the weapons. I so want to see/know more about that ship. And the gate spinning, always good...
...um...every scene involving Rush. Even if he is a sneaky wee midden. And the wee bit with Eli and his mum was also reasonable. (Wonder what's actually wrong with her...?) And Eli suits a suit.

[Arga]

That is exactly what is wrong with this show. Something as scifi and cool as harnessing power from a star has been reduced to the macguffin. And science fiction IS about the technobabble. That is the whole point of a scifi show. The technology and SCIENCE FICTION are part of the story. Without the science, scifi, gadgets and action you have Days Of Our Lives, a soap opera.

that's also the issue I have with this series.
I never expected the show to frustrate me like that. The actual Sci-Fi part is so reduced that it seems to be just the excuse for the melodrama to take place. If it didn't have the name "Stargate", i wouldn't mind so much; a brand new series could be done the way the writers wish, but being Stargate, I had other expectations. It makes me sad because I can't anymore recommend the show with pride to my friends. They'll say "why do you suggest me to watch a soap opera in space, I thought you liked sci-fi?"..
I don't care at all about the love life of the characters, some people do, but what I want to see is how do they resolve technical problems, what are their discoveries (with the ship, the planets, aliens..), I want stories that have thriller, suspence, well written humour, sense of adventure, revelations about the ultimate question of the universe, life and everything, and stories that don't make my eye roll because of their romantic problem... Like I don't need to see them going to the toilets, I don't need to see them kissing, have sex, or "you stole my boyfriend", or "you're on that ship, with her"...
That said, I can find some excitement in this episode (after i mentally remove the soap opera scenes, but I need to do a lot of editing, unfortunately). How they were going to get rid of this experiment was intriguing.

About the stones, I liked that Eli didn't tell her mom it was him, because I have a hard time believing that all the other civilians who had been visited by a swapper actually believe that it's the real person inside someone else's body! How can they be so cool about that, and accept it without freaking out, they didn't have knowledge of stargate and alien tech, like the military personnel... "Who are you?" - "I'm Chloe, but I am in fact in another galaxy, Mum, and I'm borrowing this body to talk to you" - "Oh, Ok"... For me, the fast acceptance of the stone technology by those civilians (Chloe's mum, Young's wife) is too much to swallow.
At least, with Eli, we can see that he really think his mum will not believe the truth. (too much star trek for her!). It's more realistic.

[Eternal Density]

The actual Sci-Fi part is so reduced that it seems to be just the excuse for the melodrama to take place.

No. Both the science part and the melodrama part are still components of science fiction. Science fiction isn't just the "cool tech stuff". Imaginary/speculative science is still a very key part of the show.
Even if there had been no use of imaginary technology beyond 'gating to the Destiny, it would still be a science fiction show.

[Arga]

No. Both the science part and the melodrama part are still components of science fiction. Science fiction isn't just the "cool tech stuff". Imaginary/speculative science is still a very key part of the show.
Even if there had been no use of imaginary technology beyond 'gating to the Destiny, it would still be a science fiction show.

yes, you're right there are some bits of sci-fi in the background... but not enough to my taste. It's the quantity that I'm not satisfied with.
the ratio between geeky stuff and non sci-fi stuff is not like I enjoy.

Maybe i'm just blinded by those character drama/love scenes, which I couldn't care less in a sci-fi show; they bug me too much and prevent me from focusing of the little bits of pure science fiction. But I train myself to watch past that.
What I don't like are those scenes that could fit perfectely in a non sci-fi show; if you take them out of SGU and place them in a normal realistic earthly series, it would appear just fine.
However, the scenes dealing with science fiction, which wouldn't make sense in a non sci-fi show, I like.


I don't know if I'm clear, it's late here and i should go to bed..

[Alder]

that's also the issue I have with this series.
I never expected the show to frustrate me like that. The actual Sci-Fi part is so reduced that it seems to be just the excuse for the melodrama to take place. If it didn't have the name "Stargate", i wouldn't mind so much; a brand new series could be done the way the writers wish, but being Stargate, I had other expectations.

I know what you mean, the style is sufficiently different that I feel as if it should be set in a different universe. As it were...
But obviously it's the Stargate 'verse that the writers are comfortable with, and they just wanted to start from that point and then push the boundaries. I'm trying to think of it as a completely unrelated series though, so I can judge it on its own merits. (It has some some uncanny references to that show Stargate that I liked, though. )

[MediaSavant]

In the history of the Stargate franchise, I have watched only a handful of episodes twice. I watched this twice. I think the reason is that there is so much subtlety in the characters in some of the scenes that I wanted to see if my initial assumptions were correct. This episode left a lot to think about.

In no particular order:

Young: Jack's first choice for the mission. I like Young. He has an entirely different demeanor than Jack, but he clearly gains the trust of his men. He's also a thinker who doesn't necessarily reveal what he's thinking. Even though he told his wife he was "barely keeping it together", no one observing him from the outside would ever be able to tell. He stood up for his own principles from start to finish, even though he also harbors doubts about Rush. The scene at the end where he gives Eli his assignment is a great example of how Young inspires his subordinates. Eli has doubts about being up to the task, but the way Young tells him to learn was clearly an order that Eli will follow.

At the same time, Young has a tarnished background in regards to his marriage. He's not perfect and we have to wonder if he is really over TJ given the dream he was having.

Eli: The scene with his mother was extremely touching. David Blue brings such charm to the role of Eli. I loved every scene he was in. I loved the line where he says something like, "just once I'd like a date not to end with the girl crying." Priceless. The series I love the most involve a journey of growth on the part of the characters. We have a lot of that to look forward to with Eli. I just hope he doesn't lose some of that charm along the way.

Telford: I wonder if part of his ornery-ness in regards to Young has to do with knowing he (Telford) was the 2nd choice. He certainly doesn't seem to have the leadership skills Young does. His moves are just spiteful, like the re-jailing of Sergeant Greer.

The flip-flopping with the stones at the most inopportune time certainly created an interesting dynamic to say the least. At this point, I think the writers are making Telford a little too unlikeable to the point of me wondering why he was even the 2nd choice in Jack's mind. A scene between Jack and Telford would go a long way to explaining some things.

The final scene at Mrs. Young's door certainly was provocative. Personally, I think it would be doubtful that he could fool her into thinking he was Young. There's more to identity than physical appearance. I suspect the writers have something else up their sleaves then what most people have been thinking.

Chloe: Still kinda weak as a character. Maybe this is a turning point, though. They have to develop some sort of function for her besides what we've seen so far.

Rush: Definitely proved his smarts and his ability to manipulate and fool people in this one. Young doesn't quite trust him, but he wasn't willing to put his life into the other scientists' hands either. I love how Carlyle plays him with his lack of people skills.

[EllieVee]

Rush: Definitely proved his smarts and his ability to manipulate and fool people in this one. Young doesn't quite trust him, but he wasn't willing to put his life into the other scientists' hands either. I love how Carlyle plays him with his lack of people skills.

People keep saying (and me included) that Rush lacks people skills but does he? People also keep saying that he's a great manipulator. Surely someone who can manipulate people doesn't lack people skills but rather simply doesn't care about them.

[Eternal Density]

yes, you're right there are some bits of sci-fi in the background... but not enough to my taste. It's the quantity that I'm not satisfied with.
the ratio between geeky stuff and non sci-fi stuff is not like I enjoy.

You missed my point. The sciency geeky stuff is not THE sci-fi.
Chloe having the conversations that she did in the club - pretending to be cousin Liz but really being herself in another body - is as much part of the sci-fi as the technology of the stones themselves. The technology enabled a social situation that is normally not possible. And in non-sci-fi, people don't make comments about shedding tears that are not their own...

And to me, Young and Telford switching places at the most inopportune moment, and the fallout from that situation (which of course isn't possible at all in reality) is very much sci-fi.

[EllieVee]

You missed my point. The sciency geeky stuff is not THE sci-fi.
Chloe having the conversations that she did in the club - pretending to be cousin Liz but really being herself in another body - is as much part of the sci-fi as the technology of the stones themselves. The technology enabled a social situation that is normally not possible. And in non-sci-fi, people don't make comments about shedding tears that are not their own...

And to me, Young and Telford switching places at the most inopportune moment, and the fallout from that situation (which of course isn't possible at all in reality) is very much sci-fi.

A stunt that Heinlein would pull - so to speak.

[Eternal Density]

Funny thing, the most recent science fiction book I've read, Saturn's Children by Charles Stross,

Spoiler:

has no

Spoiler:

humans

in it

yet it's still very much about

Spoiler:

humanity and all that.