What disciplinary actions should Young take towards Rush, Wray & the other civilians?

[EllieVee]

Rush was told by Young that he and his team could study the chair. Young said in "Life", "I'm not telling you to ignore it, I'm telling you to study it without sitting in it." When Rush believed he was free of any repercussions from Young ("Justice"), he manipulated members of his team to see if he could get one of them to sit in the chair (as it turns out, Dr. Franklin did).

regards,
G.

No proof of any manipulation just the usual speculation. Rush said that people who worked on it had orders not to sit in the chair, something that is too easily checked for him to lie about.

I can think of at least three times when Rush has gone behind Young's back and countermanded what he said to do.

-Dialing Destiny instead of Earth
-The chair incident
-The agreement to get along "for the sake of the crew"

FallenAngelII has said what I was going to say regarding this but I didn't want you to think I had ignored your reply.

[Lahela]

Rush was told by Young that he and his team could study the chair. Young said in "Life", "I'm not telling you to ignore it, I'm telling you to study it without sitting in it." When Rush believed he was free of any repercussions from Young ("Justice"), he manipulated members of his team to see if he could get one of them to sit in the chair (as it turns out, Dr. Franklin did).

regards,
G.

That old chestnut! LOL! No, Franklin made that choice all on his own. Do people honestly think Rush has some sort of mind control device in his back pocket or something?

[EllieVee]

That old chestnut! LOL! No, Franklin made that choice all on his own. Do people honestly think Rush has some sort of mind control device in his back pocket or something?

*coughs*

I think our thread might be evidence of that, Lahela ...

[Lahela]

*coughs*

I think our thread might be evidence of that, Lahela ...

That's all RC's doing

[thesteak23]

This is far from a democracy, they are stranded as far from home as they can get in a life and death situation. this is the equivilant of martial law, military should have complete control, they put their lives on the line while the civvies sit around on the ship on all the important missions, if they get attacked its them who defend the others, and its them who are trained for simular situations. clear control is important for keeping order, Ive been saying for the last few episodes, if young doesnt excerpt control hes going to have problems, he cant be the weak leader he has been, and this episode was the result of it. now he has to show there is a clear chain of command. I would lock rush away absolutly, any work he would do should be under armed guard. he is clearly willing to put other peoples live on the line for personal purposes and can not be trusted.

as for the military responce, pistol whipping one guy was far from overkill, in fact i was supprised how much restraint was given, after what they tried they would have felt betrayed by the very people they have been laying their lives down for so they could take control and play boss. I woulda pistol whipped the first person who didnt back down also to show them its no luaghing matter, there are concequences for such actions. actions that can ultimatly cost the lives of everyone on the ship.

as young said, they need to live with these people, pistol whipping was more then justified, iim supprised it was only one person tbh and in reality it probubly would have been more with how long it took them to actually hit the floor. expecially knowing at least one of them was armed. but since they still have to live with these people I would only punish the ringleaders. and it wouldnt be a small slap on the wrist, command needs to show that there are reprocussions and you cant just try and take over the ship because you dont like the way its done, in this sort of situation democracy gets you killed, plain and simple. fighting over leadership also gets you killed.

taking back the ship and sending everyone to their rooms with no punishment is basically saying, you loose, we win today... better luck tomorrow. because if theres no concequences, why not try again? what have you got to loose? nothing at all.

[FallenAngelII]

This is far from a democracy, they are stranded as far from home as they can get in a life and death situation. this is the equivilant of martial law, military should have complete control, they put their lives on the line while the civvies sit around on the ship on all the important missions...

Then building sites are under martial law? Because, you know, there are deadly accidents and all there.

Also, civilians go on important missions all the time. In fact, sometimes the civilians outnumber the soldiers.

[pipi]

No discipline, no one is your daddy. Every knows that even though they don't agree with each other, they have the crew's best interest in mind. A big disfunctional family that still loves each other.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

There should be no disciplinary action. Disciplinary action could result in more push back from the civilian side. All the scientists and techs have to do is refuse to work. Then everyone's in a very bad position.

[Blackhole]

This is far from a democracy, they are stranded as far from home as they can get in a life and death situation. this is the equivilant of martial law, military should have complete control, they put their lives on the line while the civvies sit around on the ship on all the important missions, if they get attacked its them who defend the others, and its them who are trained for simular situations. clear control is important for keeping order, Ive been saying for the last few episodes, if young doesnt excerpt control hes going to have problems, he cant be the weak leader he has been, and this episode was the result of it. now he has to show there is a clear chain of command. I would lock rush away absolutly, any work he would do should be under armed guard. he is clearly willing to put other peoples live on the line for personal purposes and can not be trusted.

as for the military responce, pistol whipping one guy was far from overkill, in fact i was supprised how much restraint was given, after what they tried they would have felt betrayed by the very people they have been laying their lives down for so they could take control and play boss. I woulda pistol whipped the first person who didnt back down also to show them its no luaghing matter, there are concequences for such actions. actions that can ultimatly cost the lives of everyone on the ship.

as young said, they need to live with these people, pistol whipping was more then justified, iim supprised it was only one person tbh and in reality it probubly would have been more with how long it took them to actually hit the floor. expecially knowing at least one of them was armed. but since they still have to live with these people I would only punish the ringleaders. and it wouldnt be a small slap on the wrist, command needs to show that there are reprocussions and you cant just try and take over the ship because you dont like the way its done, in this sort of situation democracy gets you killed, plain and simple. fighting over leadership also gets you killed.

taking back the ship and sending everyone to their rooms with no punishment is basically saying, you loose, we win today... better luck tomorrow. because if theres no concequences, why not try again? what have you got to loose? nothing at all.

I agree with you. Young has been too weak in his leadership. He has bent over backwards to be accommodating and gentle with the civilians. Look what it has got him an attempted coup. In Justice Young let Wray walk all over him. He blatantly told Scott “I will not govern with force”. Instead of exerting control and fighting an obvious attempt at framing to undermine his authority he steps aside and gives her command. It wasn’t until the Kino was discovered that he stood up to Wray. Rush and Wray have made it clear through their actions that they are not going to stop until they have wrested command away from him. On the planet he reacted in anger and left Rush there, throwing away the moral justification he had to lock him (and potentially Wray) up (I suspect she was complicit in the framing.) and begin to exert a much needed tighter control.

In Divided Rush manipulates Wray and the other gullible civilians into staging a premature coup because he wants Young out of command. He knew when it came out that he had been implanted with a tracking device Young would do what it takes to turn it off. I feel for Rush but that device was a clear and immediate danger to everyone on the ship. Young absolutely did the right thing to have it immediately removed regardless of the consequences to Rush.

Young has been too gentle and unfortunately does have anger issues. Rush deserved a harsh disciplining and needed to be put under a very tight leash. He should never have left Rush on the planet and lied about it. He gave Wray the ammunition she needed to reassert her grab for power. At this point I think Young has lost the moral authority he needs to continue in command. In a real world situation stepping down under the authority of Earth Command and allowing another like Scott or TJ to replace him would be what is best for everyone on the Destiny and would remove the justification Wray and Rush will continue to use to undermine the military’s command. But since SGU is a soapy Sci-Fi show that probably isn’t what is going to happen.

[EllieVee]

I agree with you. Young has been too weak in his leadership. He has bent over backwards to be accommodating and gentle with the civilians. Look what it has got him an attempted coup. In Justice Young let Wray walk all over him. He blatantly told Scott “I will not govern with force”. Instead of exerting control and fighting an obvious attempt at framing to undermine his authority he steps aside and gives her command. It wasn’t until the Kino was discovered that he stood up to Wray. Rush and Wray have made it clear through their actions that they are not going to stop until they have wrested command away from him. On the planet he reacted in anger and left Rush there, throwing away the moral justification he had to lock him (and potentially Wray) up (I suspect she was complicit in the framing.) and begin to exert a much needed tighter control.

Except that he has been from the beginning. Searching people's rooms is ruling by force. Telling people that there's going to be a lottery for their lives is ruling by force. Ordering people about is ruling by force.

In Divided Rush manipulates Wray and the other gullible civilians into staging a premature coup because he wants Young out of command. He knew when it came out that he has been implanted with a tracking device Young would do what it takes to turn it off. I feel for Rush but that device was an immediate and clear danger to everyone on the ship. Young absolutely did the right thing to have it immediately remove regardless of the consequences to Rush.

Incorrect. He forces Wray's coup to go early because he knows the aliens will turn up and he's afraid, very much afraid, that Young's reaction will be to kill him. And let's face it, he had reason to think so, particularly when Young pointed a gun at his head, told TJ to 'get it out of him' when she was not qualified, and his little wonder boy Scott would have ripped it out of Rush's chest if TJ had been unable to finish the operation.

Young has been too gentle and unfortunately does have anger issues. Rush deserved a harsh disciplining and needed to be put under a very tight leash. He should never have left Rush on the planet and lied about it. He gave Wray the ammunition she needed to reassert her grab for power. At this point I think Young has lost the moral authority he needs to continue in command. In a real world situation stepping down under the authority of Earth Command and allowing another like Scott or TJ to replace him would be what is best for everyone on the Destiny and would remove the justification Wray and Rush will continue to use to undermine the military’s command. But since SGU is a soapy Sci-Fi show that probably isn’t what is going to happen.

Young has been a paranoid thug. He won't get replaced because people on Destiny are too scared of him.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

ElliVee,

Young isn't a thug and doesn't want to be a dictator. I think he's a man in a position he didn't want, wasn't prepared for, and is simply overwhelmed. On top of everything anger and impulse control issues. This is why shareing power with other's makes sense. It provides checks for each of the power blocs and helps defuse Young's impluse control issues.

The trimuverate Young, Rush, Wray isn't a bad idea. If Rush is too controversial, he is a manipulator, put Volker in that position. He's bright and trusted by the other scientists.

[Blackhole]

Except that he has been from the beginning. Searching people's rooms is ruling by force. Telling people that there's going to be a lottery for their lives is ruling by force. Ordering people about is ruling by force.

Guess what, he is in charge. Making tough decisions is what commanders do. In the Light the ship’s destruction was thought to be imminent. The lottery was the fairest method to give some a chance to survive. And if you remember he took his name out of the drawing.

Incorrect. He forces Wray's coup to go early because he knows the aliens will turn up and he's afraid, very much afraid, that Young's reaction will be to kill him. And let's face it, he had reason to think so, particularly when Young pointed a gun at his head, told TJ to 'get it out of him' when she was not qualified, and his little wonder boy Scott would have ripped it out of Rush's chest if TJ had been unable to finish the operation.

The tracking device put the ship in immediate grave danger and unfortunately needed to be removed right away, regardless of the consequences to Rush. He wasn't going to tell anyone besides Chloe about it, luckily for everyone Eli said something, otherwise the ship would soon be attacked again. And lo and behold, Young didn't toss him out of an airlock. Using the stones he had a doctor from Earth come on board to perform the surgery and Rush survived just fine.

Young has been a paranoid thug. He won't get replaced because people on Destiny are too scared of him.

Young hasn't been paranoid or a thug. Every one of Young's concerns came true. And with the exception of marooning Rush he has never used excessive force on anyone on the Destiny.

[Lord Hurin]

He didn't disobey anything with regard to the chair - Wray was in charge and gave him control over his science team, so they began study of the chair.

An excellent point. He did disregard Young's previous command though. At this point, Rush didn't know much more than the function of the device so Young's concerns were valid. As were Eli's who said that version 1.0 is usually "the most buggy." Rush manipulated events to allow himself access to the chair after it was cut off. Not a direct violation of Young's orders (especially since Young was no longer in charge) but still kinda cheeky.

[myhelix]

Rush´s OR was punishment enough.

[Lord Hurin]

Except that he has been from the beginning. Searching people's rooms is ruling by force. Telling people that there's going to be a lottery for their lives is ruling by force. Ordering people about is ruling by force.

How would you have liked to have seen those situations occur? "Umm, this is Col. Young. If anyone stole any food or water, pretty please return it. That'd be so darn nice. Kthxbye" or "Hey guys, we can save 16 of the people here. Anyone who wants to live, please line up at the shuttle door in a civilized manner. Thanks"

I don't think either of those situations would have worked. Especially the shuttle one; there would have been a riot. Everyone thought that they were more qualified, more deserving to have a spot on there.

Incorrect. He forces Wray's coup to go early because he knows the aliens will turn up and he's afraid, very much afraid, that Young's reaction will be to kill him. And let's face it, he had reason to think so, particularly when Young pointed a gun at his head, told TJ to 'get it out of him' when she was not qualified, and his little wonder boy Scott would have ripped it out of Rush's chest if TJ had been unable to finish the operation.

So Young made the wrong decision? Rush was afraid, probably justifiably, but still. He withheld information that was endangering the crew. Period. And Young didn't just shoot him, did he? He probably knew there was a chance that Rush could die during the operation, but it wasn't a certainty.

Young has been a paranoid thug. He won't get replaced because people on Destiny are too scared of him.

He shouldn't be replaced anyway. He should be supplemented; ie, shared leadership.