Once you pick up a weapon...

[Lord Hurin]

This I completely agree with. I don't necessarily blame Wray for wanting command, as she has strong desires to get hom. I'm certainly not convinced she'd do a better job than Young, however.

Indeed. Last time, she didn't seem to do a lot. You'd think with all her designs for obtaining power, she'd have some plans on what to DO with it if she got it!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I think the problem with Young is his tendency to react with pure emotion when intellect is called for. I think Young is a decent man thrust into a situation he knows he's unprepared for but who believes he's the best of a set of bad options. I simply fear he's not the best of bad options.

[carmencatalina]

I think the problem with Young is his tendency to react with pure emotion when intellect is called for.

This. This here. Is exactly what I see. Can I give you green? I will try!

[Lord Hurin]

I think the problem with Young is his tendency to react with pure emotion when intellect is called for. I think Young is a decent man thrust into a situation he knows he's unprepared for but who believes he's the best of a set of bad options. I simply fear he's not the best of bad options.

What exactly is the best option then?

[carmencatalina]

What exactly is the best option then?

I think Young needs to stay in command - but change the way he commands. Come on, you know he can do it!

[Lord Hurin]

I think Young needs to stay in command - but change the way he commands. Come on, you know he can do it!

Oh, I completely agree. I just misunderstood your other post.

[Jper]

Skimmed through the last page or so 'cause most has been said, and I don't really strongly disagree, or absolutely agree with anything that has been said, except this:

was atlantis a dictatorship ?

didn't see any elections taking place there!

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with this. IMHO you're doing Elizabeth a great disrespect by saying or suggesting this, whatever...

Elizabeth was someone who believed in democracy, diplomacy and certainly not in force, violence, threats, and most most certainly not dictatorship. She was appointed to that position, by the elected people, i.e. The President. She was democratically put there in her place, and when she was appointed to the position she decided she would do the best job she could. She'd form her own opinions, consider all sides, and refused to be Kingsey's puppet.

Please do not disrespect this!!! Elizabeth was a great leader and person. I always admired her for that.

Young's nothing, absolutely nothing compared to Elizabeth.

Well, I had my say, I guess. Probably some will disagree.

I think Young needs to stay in command - but change the way he commands. Come on, you know he can do it!

I don't think so. He had loads of changes. And instead of improvement, things only worsened. Why would he now suddenly change things. Actually, imho, this was a great moment to changes things, but instead he went the same old way as usual. No I don't believe he can, or maybe better, will change. At least not now.

[lordofseas]

Skimmed through the last page or so 'cause most has been said, and I don't really strongly disagree, or absolutely agree with anything that has been said, except this:



I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with this. IMHO you're doing Elizabeth a great disrespect by saying or suggesting this, whatever...

Elizabeth was someone who believed in democracy, diplomacy and certainly not in force, violence, threats, and most most certainly not dictatorship. She was appointed to that position, by the elected people, i.e. The President. She was democratically put there in her place, and when she was appointed to the position she decided she would do the best job she could. She'd form her own opinions, consider all sides, and refused to be Kingsey's puppet.

Please do not disrespect this!!! Elizabeth was a great leader and person. I always admired her for that.

Young's nothing, absolutely nothing compared to Elizabeth.

Well, I had my say, I guess. Probably some will disagree.



I don't think so. He had loads of changes. And instead of improvement, things only worsened. Why would he now suddenly change things. Actually, imho, this was a great moment to changes things, but instead he went the same old way as usual. No I don't believe he can, or maybe better, will change. At least not now.

Must I say it? I agree completely. Green.

[meo3000]

Again, this is a SGC expedition. The SGC is run by the military.

The IOA as usual cannot be trusted. Even though they have the authority to take lead, they never do directly, cause they are cowards and dont want to be blamed down the line for bad judment calls. They plot, they scheme, and ultimately screw everything up.

Storm is head of the IOA and still, O'Neill only has to listen to his concerns, he doesnt have to do anything unless told by his superior, the President. Same apply to Young and Wray, he has to listen but is not obligated to do anything she says unless his superior, O'Neill, tell him so.

Wray is a human resources executive, a glorified accountant, who in this situation, is expected to organize the civilian everyday life aboard Destiny, nothing more, nothing less. Rush is the scientific team leader, nothing more, nothing less. His role is to supervise the scientific aspect of the expedition.

All that said, Young is still the expedition leader. Every civilian on that ship needs to understand this and respect it. If Rush and Wray still continue to challenge this fact, Young would be right to confine them to quarters, something like house arrest, or something...

I dont get why people still argue about this. Stargate is basicaly a military based show. Weve been rooting for them for 15 years. But now the lines have been blurred and all of a sudden im supposed to change sides and root for the civilians, the same group that always find a way to screw up the missions and end up being saved by the military. Theyve been saving the planet(s) and every other species for 15 years and now im supposed to root for the IOA? or Rush?

I cant wait for Daniel to visit and tell those egocentric scientist to shut it.

[Lord Hurin]

I don't think so. He had loads of changes. And instead of improvement, things only worsened. Why would he now suddenly change things. Actually, imho, this was a great moment to changes things, but instead he went the same old way as usual. No I don't believe he can, or maybe better, will change. At least not now.

Who should command the ship then? Rush and Wray don't look to be better alternatives.

As for Weir, I agree with everything you said about her level-headedness and fairness. I loved the character, love Tori Higginson (she's from my hometown to boot ) and thought she was great. She controlled Atlantis though. When she said to do something, it was done. She never HAD to take any advice that Sheppard, McKay, Ronon, etc gave her.

[Nemises]

Who should command the ship then? Rush and Wray don't look to be better alternatives.

As for Weir, I agree with everything you said about her level-headedness and fairness. I loved the character, love Tori Higginson (she's from my hometown to boot ) and thought she was great. She controlled Atlantis though. When she said to do something, it was done. She never HAD to take any advice that Sheppard, McKay, Ronon, etc gave her.

Part of being a leader is to take advice from your subordinates.

The general in the US military doesn't get out of his bed and make decisions that risk the lives of soldiers.

[Lord Hurin]

Part of being a leader is to take advice from your subordinates.

The general in the US military doesn't get out of his bed and make decisions that risk the lives of soldiers.

You have GOT to be kidding me! That's EXACTLY what they do! War isn't all rainbows and butterflies! The Taliban and insurgents in Iraq aren't attacking coalition troops with unicorns and lollipops! Every order a soldier of any rank gives could put their subordinates in harm's way.

[Nemises]

You have GOT to be kidding me! That's EXACTLY what they do! War isn't all rainbows and butterflies! The Taliban and insurgents in Iraq aren't attacking coalition troops with unicorns and lollipops! Every order a soldier of any rank gives could put their subordinates in harm's way.

so you're telling me that the US general makes decisions without consulting people on the ground or taking advice from the intelligence agencies ?

[Lord Hurin]

so you're telling me that the US general makes decisions without consulting people on the ground ?

Yes. When the decision is made to attack an enemy base or launch another offensive action, it comes from higher-ups with no consultation. That's what being a soldier, sailor or airman is all about; following orders.

[Jper]

Again, this is a SGC expedition. The SGC is run by the military.

The IOA as usual cannot be trusted. Even though they have the authority to take lead, they never do directly, cause they are cowards and dont want to be blamed down the line for bad judment calls. They plot, they scheme, and ultimately screw everything up.

Storm is head of the IOA and still, O'Neill only has to listen to his concerns, he doesnt have to do anything unless told by his superior, the President. Same apply to Young and Wray, he has to listen but is not obligated to do anything she says unless his superior, O'Neill, tell him so.

All good, all good, but in the end they are on the ship and people on Earth don't have much influence or authority on Destiny. And I don't think it really matters all that much what people on Earth say or do, if there would be a decent leader on Destiny, the people on board would need to be the first concern, Earth is not so much a concern.

Wray is a human resources executive, a glorified accountant, who in this situation, is expected to organize the civilian everyday life aboard Destiny, nothing more, nothing less.

I think you're underestimating Wray. It's easy to say that, but she has a lot of influence.

Rush is the scientific team leader, nothing more, nothing less. His role is to supervise the scientific aspect of the expedition.

All that said, Young is still the expedition leader.

Actually, you're wrong about that . Young is Icarus Base commander, and not the Destiny expedition leader. That was Telford. Young didn't want to go, and now he's pissed on everyone that gets in his away for, and blames them for being stuck on Destiny. That way you cannot be a good leader.

Every civilian on that ship needs to understand this and respect it. If Rush and Wray still continue to challenge this fact, Young would be right to confine them to quarters, something like house arrest, or something...

I disagree...

I dont get why people still argue about this. Stargate is basicaly a military based show.

So? Doesn't mean a thing. SGU is a totally new concept.

Weve been rooting for them for 15 years. But now the lines have been blurred and all of a sudden im supposed to change sides and root for the civilians, the same group that always find a way to screw up the missions and end up being saved by the military. Theyve been saving the planet(s) and every other species for 15 years and now im supposed to root for the IOA? or Rush?

I cant wait for Daniel to visit and tell those egocentric scientist to shut it.

Then you'll be disappointed. I hardly think it will be like that. I seriously doubt it.

Who should command the ship then? Rush and Wray don't look to be better alternatives.

So Young should stay in charge, 'cause there's no immediate perfectly better alternative? Young should have the decency to step aside. Wray was briefly in charge, wasn't that bad IMHO, certainly not worse than Young. I liked TJ being in charge, but the problem isn't who else would be in charge, as I think you need to have some shared command, as in one civilian like Wray, one scientist like Rush, and someone from the military like Young, and the important thing would be for them to properly communicate! The problem now however is that Young is being the sole ruler, forcing his rule over the ship, and disrespecting other input that he dislikes. Anyway, I've been over Young's flaws before. That's the problem.

As for Weir, I agree with everything you said about her level-headedness and fairness. I loved the character, love Tori Higginson (she's from my hometown to boot ) and thought she was great. She controlled Atlantis though. When she said to do something, it was done. She never HAD to take any advice that Sheppard, McKay, Ronon, etc gave her.

No she didn't had to take their advice, but she listened to them and valued their input. Elizabeth and John Sheppard were a great example of shared rule, civilian and military. It worked great. They listened to each other and respected each other. They also had each other's back. And they valued McKay's input, even when he was his usual abrasive self. Surely this must be possible on Destiny, too.

Part of being a leader is to take advice from your subordinates.

The general in the US military doesn't get out of his bed and make decisions that risk the lives of soldiers.

Forgot what I was going to say.