Once you pick up a weapon...

[Tabula Rasa]

Young knows that he cant just shoot Rush, no matter what japes the Mad Scotsman gets up to, until Franklin wakes up or Eli gains a better knowledge of the ships systems then Rush is untouchable. Wray on the other hand can be considered surplus to requirements.

[Daro]

O'Neill's a long way away and Young is an unstable leader. I'm not sure that the Destiny couldn't come up with a representitive form of government on its own, or even that Wray couldn't be an effective and decent leader herself. Young already has shown disregard for his orders and has made it clear to General O'Neill that the ship will be run his way. That makes him a dictator, since he is no longer working for 'the people.'
And we don't line up mutineers and shoot them anymore. We put them on trial. I don't believe the term 'mutiny' even applies unless you are a member of the military and have sworn an oath to obey the chain of command....the only one who might be fitting that description is Young.
The Destiny's government relies entirely on who is in charge and what they say it is. I prefer the idea of Young commanding the military, with a counsel or even a sort of president representing those on board. But of course, you can't satisfy everyone, and trying will just get them all killed. Some sort of stable, strong system needs to be enacted to keep the crew of the Destiny focused on getting home and fighting for their survival, rather than fighting each other.

[Gollumpus]

Young has learned the hard lesson that creating martyrs is bad for your peace of mind. They keep coming back to haunt you, as did Rush. Young will not ever kill or order someone killed (especially Wray) unless it is for the greater good, the greater good recognized it as being for their own good and he could justify it in front of a court martial (assuming they ever get back to Earth).

regards,
G.

[Tuvok]

There is nothing civilized about leaving people without food or water. Or taking and keeping hostages.

This is one of the reasons I LOVE THIS show.

This kind of debates\ arguments.

The fact of the matter I will always put my trust in the military in that kind of situation because I want to survive. Also the moment you take hostages and try to use force be it resources or one gun against a military machine you stop being the civilian and start being the target\hostile.

That being said, Young will never compromise now as it will be seen as a sign of weakness to those who used violence against his men.

Then again, maybe now Young will now realize he is going to have to focus more on the one team aspect then the survive and lead aspect. Then considering the unruly mob the cives are should he ?

[Astria]

Heh, you know, ever since he sat in that chair and lost consciousness, I don't think I've missed Franklin at all. Maybe he'll wake up changed by the whole brain-go-explodey thing.

I agree that Young wouldn't slaughter the civilians, and I agree that he wouldn't take a life on a whim. But he did attempt to kill Rush for all the wrong reasons, not because he was framed, and he at least has taken ownership of that mistake. But just because he's admitted fault doesn't mean that he still won't face reprecussions for his actions.
Wray and Rush confirmed what the civilians suspected was the truth already. Why they'd believe anything Rush says is a bit of a conundrum. The man only gets caught lying every episode. The only logical answer is that they believed what they wanted to, what served their goals.
Of course they wanted their compromise. That's how any dispute, military or political, works. They got it, but it was given to buy Young time to make his move. Nations bargain all the time, often leveraging the threat of sanctions or even military action against another nation that is not doing what they think it should be. Is it uncivilized if the US puts sanctions on a country that is ruled by a military dictator who abuses and oppresses his people?
I guess I would ask this: in light of the fact that Young has ignored the opinions of people like Wray and Rush, what would their rightful course of action be, in your eyes? The rest of the civilians had loudly voiced their own complaints. Young spied on them through Eli, but didn't address those concerns. A good leader provides good communication. What else were they going to do?

Yeah don't miss him one bit.

Sometimes it's harder to tell who is more dangerous, Rush or Wray. They seem to both have a kind of power over some people and know how to use it. Of course it's civilized for the US to do that. But this is a whole different situation.

The civilians have to make Young listen. But not through force or threats. A public forum, where they all air their grievances for everyone to hear. Both sides have been way too secretive. Both sides and everyone on board, have to realize that they are all in this together, but oh so alone. They have to do it in a rational and fair way. No screaming, or yelling or whining or complaining. As naive as this all might sound.

[Tabula Rasa]

A billion light years from home, on a ship half of which you dont have access to and you are unable to fully control, being attacked by an alien civilization intent on getting their hands on your ship? Yeah, hokaaaaaaaaaaaay that sounds like just the sort of situation in which your ideal course of action is to set up a forum to elect a 'president' who is 'in charge' of things... Get real people....

[Astria]

Did I say elect? NO. But the way things were going didn't work, and a coup was a bad idea, that didn't work. They obviously had time and the ability to meet to set up and plan the coup, so they have time to talk about their issues in an open way. Young should remain leader until they are in a stable and established situation but not much is going to get done, at least not well, as long as there are two sides bitter fighting each other.

[Gollumpus]

Young already has shown disregard for his orders and has made it clear to General O'Neill that the ship will be run his way. That makes him a dictator, since he is no longer working for 'the people.'

When I saw that scene, I took it to mean that Young saw that he was in an unusual position and the "advice"/orders he was getting from O'Neill on how to handle the situation would not work and would likely make things worse. I saw it that Young realized he would have to be more flexible than what O'Neill was suggesting and be a bit more creative and adaptable to the situation as it developed. In my view that makes him less of a dictator. The fact that he took the ship back without any significant bloodshed (outside of the guys that Greer and James smacked around), and refrained from any reprisals on the civilians seems to support this position.

regards,
G.

[Lahela]

What does Wray know about leadership? Or Rush? Or any of the civilians? And all the coup would have done if it had succeeded was trade one dictatorship for another. One made up of people who have no idea how to lead. It was not trading for a democracy. The military had to take some control over the supplies. The civilians would not ration, which needs to be done, because they are not equipped to deal with a situation like this. The civilians never had the promise of food or water held over their heads. They weren't withheld food or water. Liberty? Of course they have no liberty and neither do the military personnel, they are stuck on a dangerous unknown ship hurling through space. The scientists in the Stargate world have been shown to leap without thinking, touching things that shouldn't be touch. But sure, give them free rein of the ship right away. They seem pretty free to move around as they please now. We never saw anyone on the ship preventing anyone from using the stones to contact earth. And Space doesn't count. The only person who threatened to withhold communication was the IOA member on earth a civilian.

I find that bolded statement a little distasteful. Just because the civilians are civilians doesn't make them irrational to the point of consuming their supplies without thought for the future.

Otherwise, I do understand your points, but I suppose we just view events from very different perspectives.

[meo3000]

Im pissed. This is a SGC mission with a military leader, Young. Wray only has a little influence cause shes IOA, which we all know only spell trouble more than anything else. Rush is THE scientist, but is not qualified to lead a military expedition. Anybody else should just shut up and use their skills to help the best they can. Its not a democracy.

Its like Mckay and Weir trying to tell Shepperd hes not qualified to lead Atlantis against the Wraith. Its down right insulting.

The nerd always think hes right, even if hes not. The politician always do whats right for everyone, but only if it serve its ambitions. The soldier does what needs to be done, doesnt matter if its popular or not.

Thats twice now that Rush and Wray failed to take out Young. Wray needs to realize the colonel will eventually tire of her attempts to take command by any mean. I wouldve down right shot her, cause contrary to Rush, she has no skills necessary to their survival, and a man can only take so much betrayal.

EDIT: If Young had a trial for allegedly killing that soldier, will Rush/Wray now be on trial for treason?

[asdf1239]

the arc is going this way because soon the

Spoiler:

lucian alliance

will save the day

[Tabula Rasa]

Amen to that. Bring on Rhona Mitra in tight leather!

[Gollumpus]

A billion light years from home, on a ship half of which you dont have access to and you are unable to fully control, being attacked by an alien civilization intent on getting their hands on your ship? Yeah, hokaaaaaaaaaaaay that sounds like just the sort of situation in which your ideal course of action is to set up a forum to elect a 'president' who is 'in charge' of things... Get real people....

Perhaps they're all good at multitasking?

regards,
G.

[Astria]

I don't think they'd pig out, but they'd eat until they are full. It's not an insult to say they wouldn't know how to deal with it if they've never experienced it. Most people wouldn't know how to ration with long term needs in mind, unless trained or having gone through the situation before.

[Lahela]

Yes. Civilians are just like cats.