Once you pick up a weapon...

[FallenAngelII]

Yeash. What is it with people.

The man stood up to James. He was ordered to stand down and get on the ground.

He refused.

He didn't "stand up to James". He was already standing when the military burst in. And James gave him all of two seconds in the midst of the confusion and fear (he might have been frozen with fear) to lay down before pistol-whipping him. He was clearly no threat. He had already put his hand over his head. He was just frozen in shock, fear or something as he made no gestures towards James.

He wasn't standing up to anyone, he was just standing up. Also, even if he was, it wouldn't have given her the right to pistol-whip him in the face (if you break someone's nose in the "correct" way, it goes into their brain and they die). James, miraculously, was the more level-headed of the two. He merely threatened to shoot someone without actually harming them.

She made him comply in the easiest and most efficient manner.

And most violent.

Worse happens to kids at middle school.

What a brilliant defense.

[IrishPisano]

He didn't "stand up to James". He was already standing when the military burst in. And James gave him all of two seconds in the midst of the confusion and fear (he might have been frozen with fear) to lay down before pistol-whipping him. He was clearly no threat. He had already put his hand over his head. He was just frozen in shock, fear or something as he made no gestures towards James.

he had a chance to complay
Greer and crew burst through the doors and they demanded everyone get on the ground

that 1 guy didn't

he then moved towards James

THEN LT James made him comply



you may not like it, but these are standard operating procedures for securing a threat
which is what the non-military personnel were

and if you move towards someone with a gun, you are most definitely considered a threat
especially in a mutiny situation

[beafly]

One of them took the weapon that TJ made the marine lay on the ground. This was the only weapon I remember them having, though.

Yes. He picked up airman shmuckatelly's sidearm (something else I'd like to addresss, maybe in a different thread)

To the many points above...

Col Young was the commanding officer and recognized authority on the ship. Rush, Wray and everyone else involved or complicit used threat of death (dehydration/starvation) to take control of the ship and demand that the other side surrender it's arms. Some of you are deluding yourselves, this was NOT a peaceful negotiation.

Let's be very clear. Rush and Wray's actions were EXACTLY the same as Young putting a gun to their heads and telling them to submit to his authority. They threatened them with death!

In that respect TJ was absolutely correct about the civilians being the ones to escalate the situation when they mutinied. They changed the rules of the game when they made that threat. In point of fact, they moved the game to the court that the military plays best on (stupid move in my opinion).

Lt James used force to stop the escalating situation and take control. She used just enough to make it clear that this was not a negotiation.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

beafly,

If the science team went on strike refusing to make necessary repairs to the ship until Young agrees to some power sharing plan the military personel would be put in the same jeopardy as the attempted mutiny. Are you saying Young has the authority and right to force these people to work at the point of a gun? Should Young be willin to execute scientists until they agree to go back to work?

[IrishPisano]

In that respect TJ was absolutely correct about the civilians being the ones to escalate the situation when they mutinied. They changed the rules of the game when they made that threat. In point of fact, they moved the game to the court that the military plays best on (stupid move in my opinion).

Lt James used force to stop the escalating situation and take control. She used just enough to make it clear that this was not a negotiation.

yup

[FallenAngelII]

Lt James used force to stop the escalating situation and take control. She used just enough to make it clear that this was not a negotiation.

Which is exactly why the civilians wanted the military out of power. The civilians outnumber the military, yet the military rules the ship autocratically. They do not negotiate, they do not listen to the civilians' concerns.

Young would never willingly relinquish command. Which is why they resorted to what they resorted to.

[Lord Hurin]

Young would never willingly relinquish command. Which is why they resorted to what they resorted to.

Except when he did, in "Justice"

[FallenAngelII]

Except when he did, in "Justice"

He didn't do so voluntarily out of the goodness of his heart just because he felt like it. He was ordered to by the people back on Earth because he was accused of a heinous violent crime.

[Lord Hurin]

He didn't do so voluntarily out of the goodness of his heart just because he felt like it. He was ordered to by the people back on Earth because he was accused of a heinous violent crime.

I'll have to view the transcript. I remember a lot of talk about Wray having no evidence and him not having to cede power without a verdict. I don't remember an Earth trip in that episode. You're probably right though.

[FallenAngelII]

I'll have to view the transcript. I remember a lot of talk about Wray having no evidence and him not having to cede power without a verdict. I don't remember an Earth trip in that episode. You're probably right though.

I'm not 100% certain myself either, it was aired, after all, 5 months ago. Also, it would be wrong of him to retain command on the ship while under suspicion of murder.

And even if he wasn't ordered to relinquish command, he still didn't do it just because. He didn't do it just because Wray asked him or because the civilians wanted him to. He did it because he had no choice but to relinquish command since he was to be "prosecuted" for murder.

[Lord Hurin]

I'm not 100% certain myself either, it was aired, after all, 5 months ago. Also, it would be wrong of him to retain command on the ship while under suspicion of murder.

And even if he wasn't ordered to relinquish command, he still didn't do it just because. He didn't do it just because Wray asked him or because the civilians wanted him to. He did it because he had no choice but to relinquish command since he was to be "prosecuted" for murder.

True, all good points. I'd even go so far as to say that he doesn't have much choice in this instance either. Let's hope he realizes that. I SO don't want another mutiny episode any time soon.

[IrishPisano]

Which is exactly why the civilians wanted the military out of power. The civilians outnumber the military, yet the military rules the ship autocratically. They do not negotiate, they do not listen to the civilians' concerns.

Young would never willingly relinquish command. Which is why they resorted to what they resorted to.

the LT James incident never would have happened if the guy did not approach James after being told to get on the ground... further, it never would have happened if they did not attempt a mutiny

[FallenAngelII]

the LT James incident never would have happened if the guy did not approach James after being told to get on the ground... further, it never would have happened if they did not attempt a mutiny

He barely moved towards her... with his hands above his head. She gave him 2 seconds of being daze/confused/afraid/frozen in fear. He barely moved towards her and in a completely non-threatening manner and she yelled at him to get on the ground. The way she hit him and what she shouted at him also indicates to me she did it not because "he moved towards her" but because he didn't get on the ground fast enough.

Also, what the flying fig did any of that have to do with the post you just quoted?!

[beafly]

If I wanted to disarm you, I'd probably try to look as non-threatening as possible while I closed the gap prior to making my move too.

She made the right decision.

You do not under any circumstances move towards someone threatening you with deadly force and expect anything other than a bullet in the chest.

The fact that she only hit him and didn't' shoot him, shows that she was following Lt Scott's orders perfectly.

[FallenAngelII]

If I wanted to disarm you, I'd probably try to look as non-threatening as possible while I closed the gap prior to making my move too.

He barely moved towards her. It was more like a little, very slow, stumble, if even that. She gave him two seconds to react to the shock of the situation.

The fact that she only hit him and didn't' shoot him, shows that she was following Lt Scott's orders perfectly.

Yes. Because it's OK to hit someone in the head as long as they don't die. As I said earlier, she hit him straight on in the face, in the nose. If you break the nose at the right angle, you might punch it into someone's brain, killing them. She could've pistol-whipped him in the stomach or chest or something.

She chose the face.