"You Can't Ask Someone to Sacrifice Themselves"

[Lahela]

<snipped for length>
Rush, by comparison, was just plain creepy. He had absolutely no problem drawing up a list of crew members whom were their wounded (& thus might not survive) or not deemed as being 'useful' to the survival of the group.

Actually, no he didn't. That was TJ. She handed him the list and told him she'd marked those who were injured. At no time did we see him request such a list, so we cannot possibly know whether or not he did.

It was cold, calculating, methodical & logical & done instantly; without hestiation or thought for others.

Seriously? The whole point was the consideration of others - the 80 or so people on the ship.

[Jonzey]

I think the person who wrote that meant that it would be harder for a person with familial connections to agree to sacrifice themself than one without, not that such connections affect the value of a person.

Exactly.

I mean, say I had two young children at home, I wouldn't want to just abandon them, even if I was saving lots of others in the process. Yeah, maybe I'd do it if there was no other choice, but I'd wait to see if anyone else would do it first. Maybe it's selfish, but I don't care.

[Lahela]

Exactly.

I mean, say I had two young children at home, I wouldn't want to just abandon them, even if I was saving lots of others in the process. Yeah, maybe I'd do it if there was no other choice, but I'd wait to see if anyone else would do it first. Maybe it's selfish, but I don't care.

I don't think it's selfish to want to survive for your own kids - I know I would. Of course nobody wants to be the person that sacrifices themselves, that's just human nature. The big difference for Armstrong, though, was that Chloe was on the ship, not safely back at home. In that situation, I would be first to volunteer.

[Col. Tomorian]

What frosted me the most about this issue is that none of them were heros. Even though many of them were military men, (selfless occupation), no one really stepped up in a selfless manner. Rush pushed the decision off to the military, so I considered him to be a selfish man. Once the military was put into the position, not a damn one of them stood up in a selfless manner. It took one injured-dying politician to react without hesitation, and to put his own life on the line to save everyone.

I considered it a weak moment in Stargate, which is preventing me from bothering to tune in tomorrow. Our military men and women deserve to be portrayed with honor and respect. That scene was pathetic and distasteful.

There's two perspectives to look at this from, the first being from someone's on the crew who is considered to "valuable" to be sacrificed. My own opinion is that I would feel uncomfortable with the idea of someone sacrificing themselves for me, and I don't think I could stand by while some "less valuable" injured person was forced to. I don't think most of the rest of the crew felt comfortable with that idea either.

Next try to imagine yourself as some man or woman from the Icarus base, for example one of the men/women working in the mess hall. They might not have skills that would make "valuable" to the rest of the group for long term survival. Looking at that from my perspective as one of them. I'd like to think I'd have it in me to sacrifice myself to save the crew, but I don't think anyone has the right to force someone to sacrifice themselves. And no one, no matter who they are or how gravelly injured they are is going to want to hear that they're being asked to sacrifice themselves because they are "expendable"

Very-very true. The only problem is that it took an injured-dying person to take the plunge. Telling others to sacrifice themselves is apart of command; however, there is NO command structure currently in place. If there was some sort of hierarchy, I can see that this scene would have made some type of sense. There wasn't any. It made no sense. As a result of using a dying man to answer this question, I think it created a very cheap way to handle this situation.

[Cold Fuzz]

What frosted me the most about this issue is that none of them were heros. Even though many of them were military men, (selfless occupation), no one really stepped up in a selfless manner. Rush pushed the decision off to the military, so I considered him to be a selfish man. Once the military was put into the position, not a damn one of them stood up in a selfless manner. It took one injured-dying politician to react without hesitation, and to put his own life on the line to save everyone.

I considered it a weak moment in Stargate, which is preventing me from bothering to tune in tomorrow. Our military men and women deserve to be portrayed with honor and respect. That scene was pathetic and distasteful.

Actually, Col. Young said very clearly to Lt. Scott & TJ that he was going to close the bulkhead. It's just he's been incapacitated and didn't really know what the situation was until he started to recover. Lt. Scott and TJ tried to stop him but I think if given the chance, Col. Young would have ultimately gone through with it. In the end, Armstrong beat Young to closing the bulkhead.

[jelgate]

I considered it a weak moment in Stargate, which is preventing me from bothering to tune in tomorrow. Our military men and women deserve to be portrayed with honor and respect. That scene was pathetic and distasteful.

But that is unrealastic. Like it or not some military men are honorable while others not just like every other group in the world

[Col. Tomorian]

But that is unrealastic. Like it or not some military men are honorable while others not just like every other group in the world

If we have that many cowards in the military, especially making up a unit, then we have a very big problem. You are telling me that everyone was a coward? That makes no sense. Look at the show again. Each one of them were trained for this type of thing, and none of them stood up to the challenge. If there were only a few inexperienced military men around, I can see that you have a valid point. That wasn't the case.

[Captain Obvious]

Rush seems to show the ability to compartmentalize things for the sake of his sanity. This is a trait you actually find in many members of the military. You'll notice the military members reaction to what rush was saying was far different from the civilian reaction.

Rush is the kind of genius that can separate his rational from his emotional mind. He is more Einstein than Oppenheimer.

[s09119]

If we have that many cowards in the military, especially making up a unit, then we have a very big problem. You are telling me that everyone was a coward? That makes no sense. Look at the show again. Each one of them were trained for this type of thing, and none of them stood up to the challenge. If there were only a few inexperienced military men around, I can see that you have a valid point. That wasn't the case.

...there are only a few inexperienced soldiers on the ship, from what we know so far.

[rlr149]

But that is unrealastic. Like it or not some military men are honorable while others not just like every other group in the world

sexist! some women are lacking too,
lynndie whatsername at abu ghraib springs to mind.

[Col. Tomorian]

...there are only a few inexperienced soldiers on the ship, from what we know so far.

That is why we call it an "Artist's License". Someone from the background could have stood up. Anyone of them. Since we do not know all of the characters, one of the unknown military men or women could have sacrificed themselves. Without hesitation. It would have come off more realistic and meaningful.

[Blue Shadowdancer]

What frosted me the most about this issue is that none of them were heros. Even though many of them were military men, (selfless occupation), no one really stepped up in a selfless manner. Rush pushed the decision off to the military, so I considered him to be a selfish man. Once the military was put into the position, not a damn one of them stood up in a selfless manner. It took one injured-dying politician to react without hesitation, and to put his own life on the line to save everyone.

Did you notice someone called Col. Young?

Also, they never showed telling all the military people the situation, only the people in the 'control room' discussing it, and then TJ and Chloe telling Young and the senator, respectively.

[jelgate]

If we have that many cowards in the military, especially making up a unit, then we have a very big problem. You are telling me that everyone was a coward? That makes no sense. Look at the show again. Each one of them were trained for this type of thing, and none of them stood up to the challenge. If there were only a few inexperienced military men around, I can see that you have a valid point. That wasn't the case.

At the time not all the options had been exhausted on how to fix the problem. Also I think at the time only a few soilders knew of the door problem

sexist! some women are lacking too,
lynndie whatsername at abu ghraib springs to mind.

I blame the Freudian slip

[Col. Tomorian]

I can see merit in everyone's perspective. I really do. Even though I disagree with everyone's analysis, I won't say that you guys are wrong. You make some good points.

I think they could have dealt with this scene in a more meaningful way, which would make the audience take notice of some of the characters. It felt to me like a cheap way to deal with the situation.

I will agree with you fine people in order to say its okay to disagree. Just because I saw the scene one way that doesn't mean someone else interpreted differently.

[Blue Shadowdancer]

I will agree with you fine people in order to say its okay to disagree. Just because I saw the scene one way that doesn't mean someone else interpreted differently.

I don't think that you can disagree that Young volunteered to sacrifice himself, can you?