What happened to TJ's baby

[knowles2]

I was rewatching season two this weekend. What happened to TJ's baby. Was her experience in "Intervention" simply a hallucination? Was it an immersive simulation created by Destiny to help her deal with her loss? Are Cain and the other's still alive with TJ's baby? If so, what was the point of "Visitation"?

I'm really curious to see where the writers would have gone with this storyline. I don't think it was simply a stimulation, after all how would the ship be able to show the nebula we see at the end of the episode in real time before the ship reached the nebula? I'm really curious to see how the aliens from Eden and the "struture" imbedded in the background radiation fit together. I'm confident they would have.

Destiny scout ships could have easily map the nebula, I think it was said that those scout vessels were the mapping the space ahead of destiny.

I personally like the idea of her baby being dead, it embeds further the idea that not everything on SGU would have a happy ending, as tended to be the case in SG1 and SGA, through whether the simulation was destiny computer or another entity could be explore.

Personally I would rather have it be destiny computers.

[jeri]

Or, the cadavers were placed on a make-shift platform and disintegrated by a wormhole forming...

regards,
G.

Okay, I think I like that idea.

But, I think KitKat is right, I do remember that now.

[maneth]

Kitkat's right. But on a long-range ship where everything needs to be recycled, the human body contains far too many valuable nutrients to waste. It would have to be recycled through hydroponics, and only humans who aren't nauseated by the idea need apply for long-range missions.

[jeri]

Kitkat's right. But on a long-range ship where everything needs to be recycled, the human body contains far too many valuable nutrients to waste. It would have to be recycled through hydroponics, and only humans who aren't nauseated by the idea need apply for long-range missions.

Yes, it makes perfect sense to recycle (just plant me in the orchard), but I don't think our Destiny crew would be up for that, except maybe Rush.

BTW, maneth you're sig is great, it looks like the Tardis is splashing down in milk!

[CallMeGeRoS]

so im the only one who thinks the baby ascended??

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

so im the only one who thinks the baby ascended??

It couldn't really ascend as it wouldn't even have a personality yet alone an understanding of life or spiritualism yet.

[Mnikolic]

I just realized I didn't actually reply to the original question of this thread.

Anyway, the creators of the "Faith" planet [can't remember the name right now] took the baby and Destiny made T.J. cope easier with her loss, convincing her that her baby's dead.
Also, I like to think the people of the "Faith" planet didn't really die and that the planet creators just send doubles of those people with fake memories so the crew would focus on Destiny's mission. They eventually stayed with T.J.'s baby on the planet and started their own population when the planet creators brought more people to their planet. The Destiny crew never learned about this and the people never learned of what happened to their friends on Destiny. T.J. eventually accepted that her baby died and she and Young moved on and perhaps started a family when they returned home from Destiny.

[Krisz]

I wonder if the 'Faith' planet creators were able to take the 'soul' or 'essence' of a person and preserve them after death. This would include TJ's baby. The body would be there still but what made that child what it was, and was to become was taken by the creators and put with the others who died on the planet the 'Faith' aliens created. TJ was offered a glimpse of this existence as she was taken for a moment as she hovered close to death at one point due to her injury.

This I guess is why the 'copies' sent back in 'Visitation' had no 'soul' and creeped Young and the others out when being near them. The aliens couldn't return the 'essence' of who they were to the 'bodies', only reanimate them for a short time. I can't help thinking that perhaps the 'Faith' planet was an experiment and the aliens were studying the humans as humans would study amoeba!

So, what did happen to the baby's body? Why didn't TJ challenge people as to where it was then when they told her she didn't go anywhere? I thought this should have been addressed given that SGU was meant to have that 'grittier' edge to it. All I can think is that everyone was happy to let her think the baby was in a better place to help her deal with the loss and the body was quietly buried on the next planet they stopped at.

For all we know Young could have been the one to bury the baby to help him deal with the loss he must have felt as the father and to help spare TJ from having to face that terrible task. That I've wondered may be the reason why he never wanted to discuss the subject whenever TJ brought it up, it was just too painful a memory and hard to explain why he didn't let her know what he'd done.

[jeri]

Destiny's AI created that dream to try and help TJ survive. It knew that she is important to the crew's survival and it has this program to help these people in what way it can. We see Rush being counseled by his dead wife Gloria and Franklin, then Young being influenced by it in Trial and Error. We see Rush stop the program that was putting Young through his "trial".

In Aftermath we first learn of this ability of Destiny's to "counsel" her crew when TJ is talking with Riley who is about to die. She confides in him about this experience:

JOHANSEN: I know this sounds crazy but I went back there. I don't know if it was a dream, a vision maybe. They said that they came and got me.

(Hunter stares at her, his eyes full of awe.)

JOHANSEN (tearfully): They have my baby, and she's safe there.

RILEY: Do you ... do you believe that?

JOHANSEN: It felt real, and I don't know how to explain it. I want it to be possible. It's just that little ... little bit of hope, it makes things bearable, so ... so I let it live.


She recognizes the value of believing the dream. The small glimmer of hope it gives her reminds her of faith in something beyond our existence, and that her child's life is not wasted, her soul has gone on. The baby cannot ascend because ascension is not death, it is moving one consciousness into a higher plane of existence; an evolution made by the will of a being. Where our souls move onto is not something we can make happen or will to happen, we are still at the mercy of "the great mystery of beyond" as to what becomes of our life force.

This is why the dead people from the planet could not survive, their souls had moved on. The planet builders may be extremely advanced, but they are not Gods. If they where, those people would be made whole. If they are a "God" I doubt we could recognize the technology involved; there would be no clues to the infancy of the sun and planet. This was such an intriguing story, I wish we could know what Mr. Wright had in mind down the road.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

There is a flip side to this. How the hell did the former Crew Members get back with a brand spanking new shuttle in the episode Visitation. That was no simulation. There is something really funky going on in the background of these episodes. I fully believe the simulation was a red herring and the answer was much weirder than that.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Oh, come on is no one going to take up the challange of dealing with the reappearance of the people left behind in the context of claiming that TJ's experience with her child on the Obelisk Planet was all a simulation created by destiny?

[Artemis-Neith]

Those two issues have nothing to do with each other.

Destiny used TJ's memories to produce a simulation to help her with the lost of her baby.

The Eden people stayed regardless of TJ memories on that planet with this huge obelisk. The builders of the planet (and the obelisk) are accountable for the reappearance of the Eden people. They can build a planet, so I guess to build a brand new Destiny shuttle and to bring those people back to Destiny is one of their easier exercises!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

AN,

Yeah, that's a potential explanation. However, one of the reasons I hate that this show was canceled is that I'm sure there has to be a more complex explanation than that. It's like an inverse Ockam's razor. The more simple the explaination the less likely it is to add to the narrative it is part of.

[Mnikolic]

Maybe the planet builders also created clones with fake memories and sent them back to Destiny, in order to make the mission easier for the Destiny crew and for the people that chose to stay on the planet. The builders might have gone even further and somehow made the "left behinds" think that the crew didn't make it back to Earth. The writers may or may not have been going for that storyline. After all, SGU was a series, with really dark, more serious and more realistic theme. I have a feeling that the writers were going to bring the Edens back somehow and just blame Destiny for everything since the ship itself was a character on the show.

And if you ask me, I think a storyline like that could turn out to be a very unique one and could fit the theme of the series perfectly.

[stargirl99]

so im the only one who thinks the baby ascended??

Nope, you're not the only one. Yep, there are some questions that need to be answered, but I definitely think Cain and the others had ascended and helped the baby ascend. If you remember SG1 when Daniel was dying from radiation poisoning he could talk to Oma. I think this was the same deal with TJ and Cain when TJ was dying. The copies of Cain and the others were just made by the aliens, and weren't really them, and even Cain said "I know this isn't really me".

I also personally think Franklin is ascended and not in Destiny's memory like Gin and Amanda. I think Franklin was given the knowledge on how to ascend when he used the ancient chair, coz the chair was going to kill him anyway.

We really need to ask the writers about this... coz it's confusing as hell.