Cancel SGU: Bad Series, Blame Network or All the Above?

[KEK]

Yeah, but ultimately Brad and Wright had control over which show aired and which show did not;

No, of the three parties involved he had least control. He's only a producer, a guy contracted to make what Syfy and MGM want him to.

[ZRFTS]

Uh... what? That pretty much is what happened. They never got back in the nick of time, they got back in Sabotage. Practically the final scene in Lost was them contemplating how screwed they were.

They got back just as Destiny was about to leave, therefore the nick of time. They don't have to witness the Destiny leaving, they just have to realize they're at the end of the universe and that Destiny has already probably jumped.

Compared to the ending where they did get in just as Destiny was about to leave and the ending where it used separate shots in order to make it look like Eli was going to successfully dial the game when in reality he wasn't. Same as in the previous episode, Rush was going to save everybody but it turns out it's all for naught as he wakes up at the nick of time but is unable to save them; see the similarities between both endings?

It would be more surprising if we got a Stargate and Rush coming out of that Stargate instead of contrasting both shots to make it seem like they're going to get back and it would even be more surprising if they realize the Destiny has already left instead of seeing it leave.

[KEK]

They got back just as Destiny was about to leave, therefore the nick of time. They don't have to witness the Destiny leaving, they just have to realize they're at the end of the universe and that Destiny has already probably jumped.

Compared to the ending where they did get in just as Destiny was about to leave and the ending where it used separate shots in order to make it look like Eli was going to successfully dial the game when in reality he wasn't. Same as in the previous episode, Rush was going to save everybody but it turns out it's all for naught as he wakes up at the nick of time but is unable to save them; see the similarities between both endings?

It would be more surprising if we got a Stargate and Rush coming out of that Stargate instead of contrasting both shots to make it seem like they're going to get back and it would even be more surprising if they realize the Destiny has already left instead of seeing it leave.

That sounds a bit flat and underwhelming to me. You may be able to draw comparisons between the two endings, but if you go back and look at the episode threads and the reactions, people really didn't expect them to be left stranded after the episode had ended. We pretty much knew that they would be stranded during Human, but it was a real surprise to see them still lost after Lost.

[Terra Atlantus]

The fact that I don't know these character's names proves that they're unrelatable.

No, that have nothing to do with it.

Also

I have only watched half of the first season

I've watched the majority of the series and I can't remember these character's names;

What?

[ZRFTS]

That sounds a bit flat and underwhelming to me.
Eh; simpler is better.

You may be able to draw comparisons between the two endings, but if you go back and look at the episode threads and the reactions, people really didn't expect them to be left stranded after the episode had ended. We pretty much knew that they would be stranded during Human, but it was a real surprise to see them still lost after Lost.

I do agree that it was somewhat unexpected but reaction differs from person to person; I was one of those people who realized that when Rush would arrive from the gate that the team on the planet would be stranded. There is only so much dramatic gimmicks can do.

Hell, the real surprise is not seeing them still lost, but lost for 5 episodes, not 2-3. I am under the impression that no matter what happens, these characters will always come back no matter what. Why? Even though they're placed in situations where they're unable to get back easily, they always manage to get back onto the Destiny though either a spaceship or divine intervention; and it usually happens by the second or third episode no less. I understand if you want to keep your main characters alive but really, give us the impression that anything could happen to them; I don't want to believe they're safe, I want to believe they're always in danger.

No, that have nothing to do with it.

Okay; so what does it have to do with it then?

[jeri]

"I have only watched half of the first season but it's problems were evident."

"I've watched the majority of the series and I can't remember these character's names; only Young, Rush, Eli, Chloe, TJ and maybe Scott..." Quoting Zombies.

So Zombies, that's a contradiction. How much have you watched really? I loved this show because of the slow building development. Keep watching. Some of those characters you don't remember will become memorable.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Okay; so what does it have to do with it then?

Well if I may butt in, the fact that, as Terra Atlantus points out, in one paragraph you change your tune and can't decide whether you've watched the majority of the show, or only half of the first season, would suggest that the problem would be more on your end, and that your rather foggy memory of how much of the show you've actually watched would perhaps mean that you're not the best person to make arguments about whether something is "memorable" or not.

[Snowman37]

I tried to watch "Air, Parts 1-3" when it the show first came out. I made it through to the end of Part 3, but I lost all interest in the show after that. It was different. I liked it, conceptually speaking. The only thing I really didn't care for was the communication stones, specifically... how they were used. What killed the show, for me at least, was how the characters were written. The actors did a fine job, but it was who the characters were that killed it. First of all, why did Rush send everyone across the universe? For all he knew, there could have been a firey pit of lava on the other side. Whoops! Seriously... he could have killed everyone. Can't endanger Earth? Dial the alpha site? Hello? It was just all downhill from there.

Honestly, I was surprised SciFi renewed it for a second season.

[KEK]

I do agree that it was somewhat unexpected but reaction differs from person to person; I was one of those people who realized that when Rush would arrive from the gate that the team on the planet would be stranded. There is only so much dramatic gimmicks can do.

Well yeah, we all did, because that was the reveal.

[KEK]

First of all, why did Rush send everyone across the universe? For all he knew, there could have been a firey pit of lava on the other side. Whoops! Seriously... he could have killed everyone. Can't endanger Earth? Dial the alpha site? Hello? It was just all downhill from there.

I'm not sure the lack of spoon fed information early on is a valid criticism of a serialized high concept character drama. It was pretty obvious that he knew more than he was letting on, which you'd have found out about had you carried on watching.

[myhelix]

What killed the show, for me at least, was how the characters were written. The actors did a fine job, but it was who the characters were that killed it. First of all, why did Rush send everyone across the universe? For all he knew, there could have been a firey pit of lava on the other side. Whoops! Seriously... he could have killed everyone.

But your argument is not correct, Rush send´s them their because A: they did not knew if it was possible to ever dial the 9th Chevron again B: the checked the location if it´s "save" and C: you seem to have no problem with that concept in SG1 and SGA. The Atlantis mission was sent to a lost city under the sea, that was as dangerous as going to "the other side" in SGU.

A Stargate mission would never be 100% safe, that´s the concept of the show, you never know what to expect when you are going through the Gate.

[Dean Grr]

To be fair, I think it goes back to Kek's earliest comment, that SGU had some drama and some action and appealed to a narrow audience. There was more sci-fi (the stargate, the comm stones) than BSG, and less political stuff (no elections), so the mainstream audience that likes conventional drama was alienated. And, due to less action, the regular Stargate fan was alienated, as suspected by the drop in viewers after "Life". Battlestar came out at a time when dark & gritty was hot (2004), but I think SGU started during the waning of dark & gritty shows (2009). With BSG, the cylons were a constant threat, so the urgency was there, but when watching Universe the constant feeling of danger doesn't really pick up until "Space".

Also, as a nod to ZRftS and Snowman, the pilot "Air" and the 1st season finale "Incursion" both were a little too long. The pacing compared to SGA was like the turtle vs the rabbit. Atlantis' 3rd season finale, "First Strike" and then 4th season's "Adrift" and "Lifeline" are some of the best paced sci-fi action, period. One crisis leads to another, to another ... that's why Universe's "Light" is so cool: once they finish the 1st crisis, returning some of the crew back to Destiny ratchets up the suspense.

[ZRFTS]

Well if I may butt in, the fact that, as Terra Atlantus points out, in one paragraph you change your tune and can't decide whether you've watched the majority of the show, or only half of the first season, would suggest that the problem would be more on your end, and that your rather foggy memory of how much of the show you've actually watched would perhaps mean that you're not the best person to make arguments about whether something is "memorable" or not.

I've watched 15 episodes of the thing, nearly a quarter of the series and nearly the end of the first season, sorry for the confusion I sometimes type stuff without recognizing it; this does not mean I have a foggy memory. I've watched the series and I have managed to remember nearly everything that has happened, the only problem is I can't remember the characters. It's a matter of whether or not to invest with them, I mean to me; Rush, Eli and Young and Geer (the Black Guy) are the best characters on SGU, they have acting, they have chemistry, they have a bond and they certainly have more personality then TJ or Scott ever would. (and I barely remember those names.) Now because I remember both of those names does not mean I would be able to spot them out from the crowd, Scott is generic as hell (a walking caricture of the caring military types) and TJ is boring and uninteresting to the point where it makes the actor behind her overrated.

This is how I feel about the series so far; they keep telling me that the second season is where things get good but from what I've seen, I doubt it. Don't get me wrong, there are good episodes but those episodes is what the show is supposed to be like in the first place; a show about searching for the true unknown that's really out there (I'm talking about outside of the box unknown) and a show about living on Destiny while trying to make the best of it. The other episodes contain an awkward mix of people trying to act dramatic, sci-fi and action; (Destiny seems to have more action then any other isolated ship in the world.) I don't know whether or not it's due to the people adjusting or other factors but this show is supposed to be about the true unknown, a concept sci-fi would love to exploit, and so far it feels like a cheap Syfy movie in my opinion. That mat change though but I think the series is underwhelming as a whole.

Well yeah, we all did, because that was the reveal.

I get what a reveal is; I also reveal that I was just waiting for the scene to end so I could end the episode and get on to better things in my life. I don't take complaint about the reveal, I take complaint about the filming; Take for instance a scene where someone opens a door and another scene where a door is opening; that person is expecting someone else to come through the door but when the door opens someone else comes through and when we cut back to the scene where the door opens but he sees someone else, that scene is cliched and insists that these things need to be shown that way in order for the audience to understand what's going on.

The simple fact that they needed to show Eli dialing the Stargate and the people on the Destiny getting a different incoming wormhole just reinforces that they need to show two different scenes in order for people to understand what's going on and to give it unnecessary dramatic flair; you're talking about reveals and timing well I'm talking about scenes like this one here. Not showing another Stargate dialing would of not gotten the message but you said Rush coming out was the reveal right, therefore if we'd just shown Eli and friends going through the Stargate to the planet then an incoming wormhole then Rush coming out then the timer running out then Eli arriving on the planet then it would mostly be the same right for lack of better sentence?

The show feels like a big-budgeted filmschool production to me, everything feels like it came straight out of filmschool; even the people on the show. I mean why is it that these people believe they have to use fancy gimmicks when they should learn that simpler is better, especially when it comes to drama. You can have extravagance but extravagance gets in the way more often then it helps if you use it constantly.

[Snowman37]

I'm not sure the lack of spoon fed information early on is a valid criticism of a serialized high concept character drama.

I judge a series by it's opening episodes. I saw the first three episodes. I didn't like what I saw. As for serialized high concept character drama, what is that suppose to mean? Yes, it's a serial, and I don't mind Stargate shifting gears towards a serial for the third series. High concept? What exactly is high concept? Hasn't Stargate always been high concept? As for character drama... eh... I don't watch those kinds of shows. Well, I did watch Everwood, but the soap opera nonsense became too much in the second season.

It was pretty obvious that he knew more than he was letting on, which you'd have found out about had you carried on watching.

If it was so obvious, why didn't everyone else figure it out? It makes them look incompetent.

But your argument is not correct, Rush send´s them their because A: they did not knew if it was possible to ever dial the 9th Chevron again

Irrelevant, that was not Rush's call.

B: the checked the location if it´s "save"

If it wasn't, would there have been enough time to dial the Alpha Site?

C: you seem to have no problem with that concept in SG1 and SGA. The Atlantis mission was sent to a lost city under the sea, that was as dangerous as going to "the other side" in SGU.

Your argument was flawed. The Atlantis Expedition was planned, the people were chosen, supplies were assembled, the other side was checked out via probe, and there was time for everyone to travel through safely. They left knowing they might not be able to return, but... they only traveled to a neighboring galaxy. The Asgard have intergalactic travel and hadn't gone extinct yet. Earth also had the Prometheus with the Daedalus under construction. So... yeah... entirely different situation. As for SG-1... what SGU-like concept are you referring to?

A Stargate mission would never be 100% safe, that´s the concept of the show, you never know what to expect when you are going through the Gate.

That isn't the issue. There wasn't an expedition safely departing through the stargate on a mission of exploration. There was an urgent evacuation from a destabilizing planet through the stargate. Better to dial the Alpha Site and either try again or cut their losses.

Also, as a nod to ZRftS and Snowman, the pilot "Air" and the 1st season finale "Incursion" both were a little too long. The pacing compared to SGA was like the turtle vs the rabbit. Atlantis' 3rd season finale, "First Strike" and then 4th season's "Adrift" and "Lifeline" are some of the best paced sci-fi action, period. One crisis leads to another, to another ... that's why Universe's "Light" is so cool: once they finish the 1st crisis, returning some of the crew back to Destiny ratchets up the suspense.

I didn't mind the slow pacing of the first episodes. In fact, I thought the pacing was down rather well.

[KEK]

I judge a series by it's opening episodes. I saw the first three episodes. I didn't like what I saw. As for serialized high concept character drama, what is that suppose to mean? Yes, it's a serial, and I don't mind Stargate shifting gears towards a serial for the third series.

I wasn't disputing your choice to stop watching, if you didn't like it then that's what pretty much everyone would do, I was only questioning whether the lack of reveal early on is a valid criticism of the type of show that SGU was. If you have no problem with serialized shows, then it seems unfair to cite the lack of reveal early on as a reason for why the première was poor in your view.

If it was so obvious, why didn't everyone else figure it out?

Because the audience are shown things that the character's aren't.


Irrelevant, that was not Rush's call.


If it wasn't, would there have been enough time to dial the Alpha Site?


Your argument was flawed. The Atlantis Expedition was planned, the people were chosen, supplies were assembled, the other side was checked out via probe, and there was time for everyone to travel through safely. They left knowing they might not be able to return, but... they only traveled to a neighboring galaxy. The Asgard have intergalactic travel and hadn't gone extinct yet. Earth also had the Prometheus with the Daedalus under construction. So... yeah... entirely different situation. As for SG-1... what SGU-like concept are you referring to?


That isn't the issue. There wasn't an expedition safely departing through the stargate on a mission of exploration. There was an urgent evacuation from a destabilizing planet through the stargate. Better to dial the Alpha Site and either try again or cut their losses.


I didn't mind the slow pacing of the first episodes. In fact, I thought the pacing was down rather well.[/QUOTE]