Did conservatives kill SGU?

[Ukko]

When did that ever happen?

Indeed. When?

[KEK]

More than you think, and frankly, just because *you* did not see it does not mean it did not exist.

You're attacking a straw man. I never said it didn't exist, I asked when it did. It does however seem to be a knee-jerk response to any sort of female sexuality in a show, which generally suggests more sexism in the audience than actually on the screen.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

morrismike,

It is unrealistic to think that a successful franchise can add "in your face" elements that annoy your core veiwers without there being consequences. For god sakes, women left the franchise in droves (SGU was second to last in women viewer percentage) because of the objectification of women and really bad drama. Was chasing the women off really necessary? Did the things that chased the women off add one single viewer from another group? SGU drove fans aways of every variety and didn't make gains of any type among any group. TPTW didn't please any demographic.

Because the viewers of SG-1 and SGA can't handle extended storylines with tension between various factions on the show? God forbid they try to create real human drama. That's no fun at all.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Morrismike,

It was far from the bottom. Wrestling cremed SGU with regards to women viewership %.

Yes, because there is a serious derth of objectification of women in professional wrestleing.

[morrismike]

You're attacking a straw man. I never said it didn't exist, I asked when it did. It does however seem to be a knee-jerk response to any sort of female sexuality in a show, which generally suggests more sexism in the audience than actually on the screen.

So if there was more of that the women would have stayed?

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I'd have to say I'm still slightly nervous about the size of the stereotyped groups being used: all/most middle-aged men are (which ever persuasion you said). Etc. Same could be stereotyped in the UK: country are conservative, townies are left-wing. The north is working class and thus left-wing, the south has the money and therefore right-wing. Except, on polling night, looking at the coloured map of the country as the results of the votes come in, it's a long way from the stereotype. A very long way.

Well stereotypes often have some basis in reality, but become muddled through misperceptions. At least with elections we have empirical evidance to look at to back up such statements or disprove them. So to use your examples we can look at election data and see the countryside is overwhelming conservative with the vast majority of countryside constituencies in the UK being in the hands of the Conservative Party, with most of the remainder being Liberal Democrats, with Labour having control of few, if any. However looking at the political persuasion of the North v South of England, we can see actually that contrary to the stereotype, the Conservatives have a great deal of support and control in many of the constituencies in the North, with Counties such as Yorkshire and Lincolnshire being Conservative heartlands for example. Because of that data we can then make the connection that places like Yorkshire and Lincolnshire are made up of mostly rural constituencies, and conclude this is why they support the Conservatives.

But talking about the political persuasion of the audience of a tv show is pretty pointless, because there is no empirical data on that. All there is is anecdotal evidence that simply does not provide enough to present any valid conclusions. Asking whether the show appealed to a conservative audience has as about as much worth as asking if it appealed to dyslexic, one armed people from Peru.

The fact of the matter is we can't even quantify the question properly. Terms such as Conservative or Liberal, that have such broad meaning and cover such a range of political philosophies and beliefs. One person on this thread has stated that the conservatives they know have little interest in science fiction, yet to use some anecdotal evidence of my own for a moment, in my experience the opposite has been the case, with the Conservatives I know, and indeed including myself self in that category, there being a huge appetite for science fiction. But my political beliefs of myself and those Conservatives I associate with is that of Fiscal Conservatism, not Social Conservatism. And at the end of the day we might be the exception to the norm, we can't know because there isn’t any empirical evidence on the political make up of tv audiences. Because in this discussion any evidence or data is either anecdotal or irrelevant to the topic, it therefore invalidates any conclusions made because of them.

Which makes this entire thread rather an excercise in tilting at windmills.

[KEK]

So if there was more of that the women would have stayed?

No, I'm saying a lack of female demo is does not suggest any measure of sexism or sexual objectification in the show. An example might, if you could actually provide one...

[morrismike]

No, I'm saying a lack of female demo is does not suggest any measure of sexism or sexual objectification in the show. An example might, if you could actually provide one...

The shagging in the closet.
The tease playing with the nerd and ending up with the Qback.
The subordinate ending up knocked up by her boss.
Are there any objectifications I missed?

[morrismike]

Well stereotypes often have some basis in reality, but become muddled through misperceptions. At least with elections we have empirical evidance to look at to back up such statements or disprove them. So to use your examples we can look at election data and see the countryside is overwhelming conservative with the vast majority of countryside constituencies in the UK being in the hands of the Conservative Party, with most of the remainder being Liberal Democrats, with Labour having control of few, if any. However looking at the political persuasion of the North v South of England, we can see actually that contrary to the stereotype, the Conservatives have a great deal of support and control in many of the constituencies in the North, with Counties such as Yorkshire and Lincolnshire being Conservative heartlands for example. Because of that data we can then make the connection that places like Yorkshire and Lincolnshire are made up of mostly rural constituencies, and conclude this is why they support the Conservatives.

But talking about the political persuasion of the audience of a tv show is pretty pointless, because there is no empirical data on that. All there is is anecdotal evidence that simply does not provide enough to present any valid conclusions. Asking whether the show appealed to a conservative audience has as about as much worth as asking if it appealed to dyslexic, one armed people from Peru.

The fact of the matter is we can't even quantify the question properly. Terms such as Conservative or Liberal, that have such broad meaning and cover such a range of political philosophies and beliefs. One person on this thread has stated that the conservatives they know have little interest in science fiction, yet to use some anecdotal evidence of my own for a moment, in my experience the opposite has been the case, with the Conservatives I know, and indeed including myself self in that category, there being a huge appetite for science fiction. But my political beliefs of myself and those Conservatives I associate with is that of Fiscal Conservatism, not Social Conservatism. And at the end of the day we might be the exception to the norm, we can't know because there isn’t any empirical evidence on the political make up of tv audiences. Because in this discussion any evidence or data is either anecdotal or irrelevant to the topic, it therefore invalidates any conclusions made because of them.

Which makes this entire thread rather an excercise in tilting at windmills.

We aren't talking UK. The premise was that Conservatives killed SGU. In America the political splits are on race, gender, and age. Old white males are conservatives. Any argument centered around conservatives killing SGU (a show with a predominately old white male demographic) is at best a fallacy and at worst false blaming.

[jelgate]

We aren't talking UK. The premise was that Conservatives killed SGU. In America the political splits are on race, gender, and age. Old white males are conservatives. Any argument centered around conservatives killing SGU (a show with a predominately old white male demographic) is at best a fallacy and at worst false blaming.

No they are not. Broad generalizations are seldom accurate.

[Gatefan1976]

You're attacking a straw man. I never said it didn't exist, I asked when it did. It does however seem to be a knee-jerk response to any sort of female sexuality in a show, which generally suggests more sexism in the audience than actually on the screen.

I'm not "attacking" anything KEK. All I'm saying is that people saw it, and if they saw it, it existed *for them*. SG1 had Female sexuality, SGA had it, SGU had it. One of these shows managed to turn alot of female viewership "off". Does that say something about the females watching "stargate" as a concept, or the "stargate" show they were watching?

[KEK]

The shagging in the closet.
The tease playing with the nerd and ending up with the Qback.
The subordinate ending up knocked up by her boss.
Are there any objectifications I missed?

I think you're very confused as to what sexual objectification actually is. To objectify someone (or a character in this case) you reduce them to nothing but an object designed for sexual gratification or cheap thrills, while the plot points you mention either set up character arcs or else flesh out the characters themselves. You couldn't have found examples any less like objectifications if you'd tried.

[LtColCarter]

I think you're very confused as to what sexual objectification actually is. To objectify someone (or a character in this case) you reduce them to nothing but an object designed for sexual gratification or cheap thrills, while the plot points you mention either set up character arcs or else flesh out the characters themselves. You couldn't have found examples any less like objectifications if you'd tried.

I agree...just sounds like horny people to me.

[themyst]

Erm ... a little background - my husband and I are social conservatives - although we will be voting for Ron Paul next election.

So regardless of the controversial statement that was uttered/not uttered and no one knows what it really meant, if we're having as discussion simply wondering if conservatives could have killed the show, I suppose it is possible if our demographic is the one watching.

He is white, in his late 40's, I am white, in my early 40's. And to be quite frank, neither of us liked the sex and gay situations in SGU. Although we really liked the show (because we're both BIG Stargate fans), we prefer a series where sex and alternative sexual lifestyle isn't an agenda of the show. We probably would have stopped watching if the show had continued and the sexual/lifestyle situations had been carried on.

ETA: In other words, we like our hour or so of scifi escapism. But some of the episodes in SGU seemed more like someone was pushing an agenda instead of simply writing a scifi show.

[Quizziard]

He is white, in his late 40's, I am white, in my early 40's. And to be quite frank, neither of us liked the sex and gay situations in SGU. Although we really liked the show (because we're both BIG Stargate fans), we prefer a series where sex and alternative sexual lifestyle isn't an agenda of the show. We probably would have stopped watching if the show had continued and the sexual/lifestyle situations had been carried on.

There seems to be some sort of cycle going on with topics like this. Race, sex, homosexuality, swearing - in the beginning it's considered "bad"; it becomes tolerated then acceptable; finally it's all-but promoted, with it being overtly introduced into shows.

I don't have problems with the inherent topic, only in the "we're a modern, trendy show so we're including a gay couple and an inter-racial couple" way it's done.