Letting it go

[Daralundy]

Well with MGM apparently was billions in the hole. Bad management is a given.

I couldn't agree more.

[KEK]

However, the downward trend in Season 1 was on a Friday night. With that in mind, SyFy changed things for a show which was struggling. Nothing worked, so they cancelled it. Not their fault if SGU couldn't cut it elsewhere - it wasn't working where it was expected to anyway.

If they'd left it on Friday it would have gained a 3 million+ Wrestling lead-in.

[maxbo]

Because SGU is the last of the SG franchise, with no new SG content in sight, letting go in this instance is not just about letting go of this one show. As a result, I'm finding that even those who weren't fans of SGU are feeling a bit conflicted about its end.

My period of letting go began sometime in SGA's 5th season when I realized that the writing wasn't going to get better no matter how much I wished otherwise. As a result, by the end of that season, I was ready for a complete overall of the writing team. Despite this, it's strange to know that in just a few days there will be no new SG content in the near future, if ever.

I'm gone through watching my favorite shows end before and although it's never a happy time, if a show's run was decent creatively and the ending was well-done, then I wasn't left with that awful "what if" feeling.

When a show is struggling, one thing you do not do as a supposedly honest businessperson is shove it into a timeslot where it's a guarantee that an audience won't exist. Nearly every series has issues in its first season, it's not usually until around the second, hell sometimes third, season that the audience is firmly established. What Syfy did was deny SGU even that small chance of building a steady audience in the second season. As a result, many talented people are now out of jobs in a weak market.

It's a good thing SG-1 didn't start on Syfy today, because they would have killed it after the first season.

You're overlooking a very crucial fact - SGU wasn't getting the numbers it needed to stay on the air in its original time slot. In its original Friday slot, the show premiered with good, but less than expected, numbers then lost almost half of its audience before the mid-season break. The second half of Season 1 averaged a bit less than 1.5, which according to a Syfy exec, wasn't good enough to keep the show on the air.

What did that mean? It meant that Syfy had two choices, either cut its losses (or potential losses) immediately and end SGU at Season 1. Or, give SGU one last chance to build an new audience by moving it to a different day. A day where, yes, the competition was tougher, but the sheer number of viewers was also higher.

As for the SGU cast and crew being out of work, well an "honest" business has to look at the big picture and do what's best for the entire business and not just a struggling portion of it. Syfy had to be concerned with all Syfy related jobs, not just SGU jobs. If SGU wasn't financially pulling its own weight for Syfy, then to keep airing it would likely have meant making cuts elsewhere - cuts from areas that were more profitable than SGU, which would have been a stupid business move.

So, doing what you propose - keeping SGU on air to save SGU jobs would likely have cut into Syfy profits, which means that more jobs would have been in danger overall. That's not the kind of decision that an "honest" business would make. Not if it wanted to stay in business, that is.

And, may I ask why you're putting all the financial burden on Syfy? Why don't you blame MGM? After all, from what I understand, Syfy paid MGM for the right to air SGU, so MGM received its money up front. Whereas, Syfy was depending on promised/projected ratings that never materialized to make a profit. So, why should the company that got the short end of the stick be blamed for not keeping SGU on the air? Why aren't you blaming MGM was not lowering its fees to make it easier for Syfy to take another chance on SGU?

[Keeper]

When a show is struggling, one thing you do not do as a supposedly honest businessperson is shove it into a timeslot where it's a guarantee that an audience won't exist. Nearly every series has issues in its first season, it's not usually until around the second, hell sometimes third, season that the audience is firmly established. What Syfy did was deny SGU even that small chance of building a steady audience in the second season. As a result, many talented people are now out of jobs in a weak market.

It's a good thing SG-1 didn't start on Syfy today, because they would have killed it after the first season.

However, SG-1 didn't have the backing of 3 movies, 2 shows, and 15 seasons that SGU came on the back of.

With that kind of heritage, SGU failed to retain the support of those who had watched the franchise before.

Any honest businessman, watching a show fail in the timeslot it is expected to succeed in, will either cancel the show instantly or else give it another chance on another day. They gave a chance to the show to pull up, and it failed to do so.

MGM failed to produce a show which could compete, under market conditions where they needed to be competitive - and that failure put people out of work. SyFy needs to look after itself, and its own people and profits, before MGM's folks.

[Keeper]

There is a lot of blame on production personnel, but MGM's recent bankruptcy is probably the primary cause of Stargate's end. It was just too expensive to produce given MGM's new financial status.

SyFy announced the cancellation, rather than MGM. However, had the show been returning a profit (and, I'm sure, MGM's other projects as well) then the bankruptcy wouldn't have become an issue.

Ultimately, production was unable to deliver what was needed, or indeed expected, from a show that had a fairly strong franchise to draw on. I'm sure, for MGM, SGU couldn't have been their only problem - but it certainly wasn't helping them, as it wasn't encouraging SyFy to continue supporting them.

well, if they want money, they could have sold the franchise to someone else.

we'd be better off than what we have now, which is *nothing*.

Who would really want to pay for a show which demonstrated high costs, diminishing profitability and a high purchase price? Any new company would have to rebuild any sets that are gone, if they wished to use them, adding further costs.

Well if stargate is a religion, giving MGM or Syfy a tax break for declaring said religion dead. A bit of a stretch, but still money could be considered a religion. And tax breaks have never benefited me in the past decade. Having spent most of it (and my 30's unemployed). Which violates my religion about food.



Well, IF you count the start of season 2 as the first 24 hours after the airing of the last episode of season 1. With a 3+ month season break and a 3+ month MID-season break, plus six months of episodes, is ONE FULL year. Granted that the cancellation came in the MID-season, but that was still some months ago. More than 6? What date did we find out, it was sooo long ago.

We found out in December, iirc, so approximately 5 months ago at this point.

If they'd left it on Friday it would have gained a 3 million+ Wrestling lead-in.

Which may or may not have done anything to help. Friday was SGU's expected night of success, and it failed to perform to expectations. When wrestling was added, there was a need to find out what would work with it, which may not have immediately appeared to be SGU.

[KEK]

Which may or may not have done anything to help. Friday was SGU's expected night of success, and it failed to perform to expectations. When wrestling was added, there was a need to find out what would work with it, which may not have immediately appeared to be SGU.

Your point was that they needed to change things. Leaving it where it was would have changed things, almost certainly for the better. What was sticking it up against the toughest weekly competition supposed to achieve? Syfy were reckless with SGU just like they're being reckless with Sanctuary now. There's a difference I suppose in that Sanctuary is already renewed, but will the show recover those viewers it lost from Syfy pissing about with it's schedule? Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. Either way it's just another example of Syfy's recklessness.

[maxbo]

Your point was that they needed to change things. Leaving it where it was would have changed things, almost certainly for the better. What was sticking it up against the toughest weekly competition supposed to achieve? Syfy were reckless with SGU just like they're being reckless with Sanctuary now. There's a difference I suppose in that Sanctuary is already renewed, but will the show recover those viewers it lost from Syfy pissing about with it's schedule? Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. Either way it's just another example of Syfy's recklessness.

SGU is an expensive show and it didn't get the numbers it needed on Friday, so it wasn't reckless to move the show to a different night with a greater pool of potential viewers. Sure, the competition was also higher, but Syfy couldn't afford to keep the show on Fridays where it had already lost almost half its audience. The only other alternative would have been for Syfy to cut its loses and cancel it outright and I'm sure fans wouldn't have wanted that. If that had happened, I'm sure fans would have criticized Syfy for *not* moving SGU to a different night before cancelling it.

As for Sanctuary, since it's already been renewed, this move wasn't about it, it was about trying to find an audience for the show that Syfy switched Sanctuary with, Urban Legends(?). In other words, Syfy did for Urban Legends what it did for SGU - it moved it to see if it could find an audience on a different night.

So far, it appears that with Urban Legends they've finally found a show that has benefited from the wrestling lead in, or maybe it's just that Friday is a better time for it. The other shows that followed it in the past neither gained nor lost any significant viewership. If SGU had aired after wrestling, it probably wouldn't have significantly benefited either because the problem with SGU wasn't the time slot, it was the show - not enough viewers were interested in it.

The bottom line is that SGU had entered cancellation territory by its 10th episode and if it hadn't be a part of the Stargate franchise, it wouldn't have gotten a second season.

[KEK]

Your entire argument is built upon the assumption that the wrestling lead-in wasn't significant, which you have no evidence for. You also seem to think that you know what numbers SGU needed to survive, which isn't the case either.

[Keeper]

Your entire argument is built upon the assumption that the wrestling lead-in wasn't significant, which you have no evidence for.

you've equally substantial evidence to say that it was significant. fact is, SyFy chose not to pair it with SGU. presumably, they felt it wouldn't work well in that pairing, or else they picked something else that they felt was more profitable.

You also seem to think that you know what numbers SGU needed to survive, which isn't the case either.

no need to know the numbers needed to survive. SGU was on a downward slope, this is self-explanatory from the ratings. we don't know what SGU needed, but we do know it wasn't hitting the mark - and that it failed to retain viewers from the outset.

[KEK]

SGU was on a downward slope, this is self-explanatory from the ratings.

The back half of season one started with 1.4 million viewers for 1x11 Space, and ended with 1.4 million viewers for 1x20 Incursion (Part 2). It was only the first half of season one that was on an obvious downward trend.

[garhkal]

When a show is struggling, one thing you do not do as a supposedly honest businessperson is shove it into a timeslot where it's a guarantee that an audience won't exist. Nearly every series has issues in its first season, it's not usually until around the second, hell sometimes third, season that the audience is firmly established. What Syfy did was deny SGU even that small chance of building a steady audience in the second season. As a result, many talented people are now out of jobs in a weak market.

It's a good thing SG-1 didn't start on Syfy today, because they would have killed it after the first season.

Very true, especially when that time slot you move it too is in direct competition with long time established shows like WWE Raw, Law and Order.

[majorsal]

I'm gone through watching my favorite shows end before and although it's never a happy time, if a show's run was decent creatively and the ending was well-done, then I wasn't left with that awful "what if" feeling.

exactly.

[majorsal]

do you know i 'just' realized this thread was in the sgu forum. i thought it was general stargate. oops

[Shadow_7]

It saddens me that Sanctuary seems to be getting the same run-around as SGU got. This past Friday only SGU reruns, no Sanctuary ones. Writing writ wall.

But then again who watches TV on a Friday. The kids and the baby sitter? Everyone else is in route to somewhere, partying, or working late to try and keep their job/career.

[maxbo]

Your entire argument is built upon the assumption that the wrestling lead-in wasn't significant, which you have no evidence for. You also seem to think that you know what numbers SGU needed to survive, which isn't the case either.

The wrestling lead in wasn't significant for any recent show until Urban Legends. If you have proof otherwise, then please share. Speaking of assumptions, you seem to be assuming that if wrestling had been used as a lead in that it could have helped SGU. However, based on how different the demos are for each show, I doubt it. In addition, it's been fascinating to watch how SGU fans bash wrestling on the one hand while also wishing that it had been used to funnel viewers to SGU. There's a disconnect here because if SGU fans are so disdainful of wresting what makes them think a significant number of those fans would have embraced SGU?

As for what SGU needed to survive, I'm sure you've seen the recent tweets from Syfy's Craig Engler, where he clearly stated that SGU didn't have the numbers it needed to survive when it was on Friday. Not only were those tweets posted in at least one SGU thread, but they were also posted in the comments section of Darren's recent commentary. I just checked and they're still there.

Also, here's the link to his tweets:

http://twitter.com/#!/syfy

The back half of season one started with 1.4 million viewers for 1x11 Space, and ended with 1.4 million viewers for 1x20 Incursion (Part 2). It was only the first half of season one that was on an obvious downward trend.

The problem is that, according to Syfy, 1.4 million was below expectations for a show as expensive as SGU, so having it maintain that number, especially when it was only in its first season, wasn't a positive. Fans may have wished that the show could have held on to 1.4 million viewers because 1.4 million looks better than the current below 1 million numbers, but as a business Syfy had to look at profitability and SGU wasn't delivering what MGM and BW/RCC had promised.