Lucian Alliance

[Aconight]

Apologies if this topic has been raised before but after doing a brief search, I couldn't find anything like it.

I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts on the Lucian Alliance Earth attack plot are?

Personally, I don't understand why all of a sudden the Alliance has become a huge threat. From what I gather, they control a portion of what was previously the Goa'uld's domain, not the entire thing. Even if they could raise numbers that match the Goa'uld's entire fleet, Earth has at least 3 Daedalus class ships in the Milkyway outfitted the latest Asguard tech. These upgrades made light work of the Ori ships so surely Hatac's would be easy.

Earth also has the ancient outpost which was able to destroy the entire fleet of Anubis, including his capital ship which had the power to destroy entire planets. At the moment, Atlantis is also at earth providing another "weapons platform" from which to take pot-shots at any Alliance fleet from (though I understand this may not be the case depending on the time line of the new Atlantis Movie).

Finally, if memory recalls, Carter discovered how to modify Merlin's device so it could phase an entire planet, making it impervious to attack (sorry for the spelling, I've forgotten the Ancient version of his name). All of this together means that earth is far from being the defenceless target that Col. Young has implied it is in the last two episodes.

So, what do you think?

[Ed]

you are assuming they will attack head on, there are lots of other ways.

Cloaked ship + nuke
Cloaked teltak dropping off special forces type guys (we know they can land undetected)
Brainwash some SG personnel like they did to telford and have them assassinate people.
attack with loads of alkesh and bomb the crap out of some cities not a lot a 304 can do those alkesh are way to fast.
explode the sun the way earth did to vorash.
Bio weapons
ect

basicly all they have to do is use their brains.

[Aconight]

Heh, actually, very good point. I had sort of being assuming that an attack on earth would come in the form of an armada, perhaps because that was the most common tactic to Goa'uld used before the Trust.

[*Crash*]

I think it would be interesting if they tryed to blow up our/a Sun.

Saying that; if they blew up another sun (from another star system) and dialed our gate i assume it would blow our planet up. (The Sokar particles went through the Iris - so am i right in asuming a supernova would do the same?).

Then again they could release the Kessa crop into our planet. (Teleport farms worlds Corn away and replace it by teleporting Kessa Corn in its place lol) Sending everyone violent and addicted and especially causing damage in 3rd world countries who mass produce corn products and have inefective governments.

[Steelbox]

(The Sokar particles went through the Iris - so am i right in asuming a supernova would do the same?)

No, they where small enought so that some of the particles did materialise on our side. but the iris absorved them heating up and delaying the explosion.

[garhkal]

Personally, I don't understand why all of a sudden the Alliance has become a huge threat. From what I gather, they control a portion of what was previously the Goa'uld's domain, not the entire thing. Even if they could raise numbers that match the Goa'uld's entire fleet, Earth has at least 3 Daedalus class ships in the Milkyway outfitted the latest Asguard tech. These upgrades made light work of the Ori ships so surely Hatac's would be easy.

So that is 3 ships against how many> 30, 40, 100? As we saw when 1 304 went against the wraith, it WILL get worn down and taken out. Same here. it is a numbers games. it all depends on how willing the LA is to taking losses. If we inflict 7 kills on them, for each of our ships they take out, that means we will take out 35 ships before we are all gone (hammond, dadelus, oddesy, sun tzu and apollo). BUT if they only have 37, do they want to lose all but 2 ship[s? What if they had 80? The loss of 35 wont be as crippling.

Earth also has the ancient outpost which was able to destroy the entire fleet of Anubis, including his capital ship which had the power to destroy entire planets. At the moment, Atlantis is also at earth providing another "weapons platform" from which to take pot-shots at any Alliance fleet from (though I understand this may not be the case depending on the time line of the new Atlantis Movie).

Being as of EATG the Ancient platform was taken out (the chair was in area 51) the only way we could use those drones is to manual fire them 1 at a time, OR hope Atlantis is still there to take over controll.

Then again they could release the Kessa crop into our planet. (Teleport farms worlds Corn away and replace it by teleporting Kessa Corn in its place lol) Sending everyone violent and addicted and especially causing damage in 3rd world countries who mass produce corn products and have inefective governments.

That would be MESSED UP. But very seeable. heck who knows. maybe they already have started.

[morbosfist]

So that is 3 ships against how many> 30, 40, 100? As we saw when 1 304 went against the wraith, it WILL get worn down and taken out. Same here. it is a numbers games. it all depends on how willing the LA is to taking losses. If we inflict 7 kills on them, for each of our ships they take out, that means we will take out 35 ships before we are all gone (hammond, dadelus, oddesy, sun tzu and apollo). BUT if they only have 37, do they want to lose all but 2 ships? What if they had 80? The loss of 35 wont be as crippling.

Wraith ships are far and away more powerful than Ha'taks. They're better armed and armored, and one 304 could still beat several in a straight fight. It would take at least ten flanking Ha'taks to provide the kind of power needed to bring a 304 down, and if there were more than one, it'd be nothing short of a Ha'tak kill-fest. Look at Ba'als fleet in Continuum. He had maybe a 100 ships, and he controlled the entire Goa'uld empire. No way the Alliance has anything close to that.

Being as of EATG the Ancient platform was taken out (the chair was in area 51) the only way we could use those drones is to manual fire them 1 at a time, OR hope Atlantis is still there to take over controll.

Take the chair from the busted Atlantis copy in "The Tower".

That would be MESSED UP. But very seeable. heck who knows. maybe they already have started.

Earth has strict controls over food, and Kassa has a distinct look to it that any grower would immediately spot as wrong. Not to mention the hoops needed to distribute the seeds.

[thekillman]

first of all i'd like to say:

please forget SG1's LA. they were typical SG1 enemies, in that they were incompetent fools.


in SGU, competent people have killed those fools, and taken over.

Personally, I don't understand why all of a sudden the Alliance has become a huge threat. From what I gather, they control a portion of what was previously the Goa'uld's domain, not the entire thing. Even if they could raise numbers that match the Goa'uld's entire fleet, Earth has at least 3 Daedalus class ships in the Milkyway outfitted the latest Asguard tech. These upgrades made light work of the Ori ships so surely Hatac's would be easy.

why do you assume the LA would fight fair? oh and watch Company of Thieves and see how easily our ships get taken out in an ambush. report false data to the Tau'ri, and when the ship drops out, immediately fire on it. if necessary calculate a highly probable course of the 304, and plant nukes. no need for ubernukes, just a few thousands kiloton-range nukes will suffice. look for your nearest Alien Earth planet for a healthy supply. give them a tel'tak as payment. they happy with advanced alien tech, we have lots of cheap nukes.

Earth also has the ancient outpost which was able to destroy the entire fleet of Anubis, including his capital ship which had the power to destroy entire planets. At the moment, Atlantis is also at earth providing another "weapons platform" from which to take pot-shots at any Alliance fleet from (though I understand this may not be the case depending on the time line of the new Atlantis Movie).

this is not the goauld we're talking about. a cloaked cargo ship dropping a nuke over the outpost would suffice. or simply have any odd Ha'tak bombard the place from orbit first.
might get destroyed in the process but who cares. it's like loosing a bowman to destroy a nuke.

Finally, if memory recalls, Carter discovered how to modify Merlin's device so it could phase an entire planet, making it impervious to attack (sorry for the spelling, I've forgotten the Ancient version of his name). All of this together means that earth is far from being the defenceless target that Col. Young has implied it is in the last two episodes.

assuming the device wasn't destroyed in EATG. or that the LA didn't bomb the building it was in. or anything worse.

they control a portion of what was previously the Goa'uld's domain, not the entire thing.

even a portion would yield a dozen ha'tak with ease. watch Reckoning. there must be hundreds if not thousands of ha'tak.

basicly all they have to do is use their brains.

thanks for saying that. makes me all warm and fuzzy. someone who understands what's wrong with our enemies.

Wraith ships are far and away more powerful than Ha'taks. They're better armed and armored, and one 304 could still beat several in a straight fight. It would take at least ten flanking Ha'taks to provide the kind of power needed to bring a 304 down, and if there were more than one, it'd be nothing short of a Ha'tak kill-fest. Look at Ba'als fleet in Continuum. He had maybe a 100 ships, and he controlled the entire Goa'uld empire. No way the Alliance has anything close to that.

100 ha'tak is only a single goauld sector. he stil has an empire to protect, y'know.


oh and wraith ships are utter, total and complete crap. if you need to be that big for such power....



oh and mind you:


if 1 ha'tak requires 10 minutes to defeat a 304
2 ha'tak require 5 minutes to defeat a ha'tak
10 will require 1 minute
100 will require 10 seconds.


focus fire is the answer to all problems. if 30 ha'tak showed up, two fired immediately at the arctic outpost and 2 at Area 51, and the other 26 attack 1 304 at a time, our fleet is in ruins pretty fast.

[garhkal]

Earth has strict controls over food, and Kassa has a distinct look to it that any grower would immediately spot as wrong. Not to mention the hoops needed to distribute the seeds.

America does.. do any 3rd world nations?

[Meshakhad]

If Atlantis is still on Earth, the "blow up a sun" strategy won't work.

Still, a sneak attack of some kind is the most likely strategy.

[*Crash*]

Then again they could release the Kessa crop into our planet. (Teleport farms worlds Corn away and replace it by teleporting Kessa Corn in its place lol) Sending everyone violent and addicted and especially causing damage in 3rd world countries who mass produce corn products and have inefective governments.

Although i am quoting my own post i think it would be interesting. Especially since they have done it on other planets before hand as they sold them in markets (When people started going mad if they didn't get their fix - like that soldier did who bought it from a market stall on another planet).

It could pretty much make earth the new "Jaffa" - Jaffa were reliant on symbiotes and Tauri reliant on Kessa.

Saying that it would be far easier to attack if half the planet are addicted and attacking eachother (people and governments) and using up their own resources - can only fight so many battles. The LA could also use it as a barganin chip for trade (natural resources/gate addresses/asgard technology - or even the Destiny itself) as they would be the only ones with enough Kessa to keep the population "calm" and from going into withdraw symptons.

Besides you only need a few in power to be violent from it - everyone else would "fight back/use violence" without it like they do now in real life.

In my opinion it would make more sence - attacks come in many forms. The LA seem to be more of an economic power that are prepared to back up with force. (They are "for profit" drug dealers/smugglers/hired hands after all and i assume everyone needs paying in some form or another to be loyal - especially with the different factions - the richest will have more resources) than as opposed to the goa'old/Ori a domination power who use force and then think of resources after. (The goa'old were when fighting the repilcators and according to Jacob they were making "A classic goa'old mistake sacrificing resources (ships i assume) at the expense of teritories - thinking like they are fighting another system lord".

America does.. do any 3rd world nations?

I'm not sure. I think they have some. But there is a lot of corruption. Plus if people are starving they won't really care - they just want food. Theoretically any violence would have a chain reaction and people (and countries) would start becoming pro-active incase they get attacked instead of reactive.

It would also play hell with supply and cause sky high infation prices and increase in commodity prices (oil goes up when their is violence and any cut off in supply you can't get to it, food prices would increase as a lot of it is grown in 3rd worlds and would be hard to get to - which export to all the first world countries, USA, China, Europe, Russia etc) - All of which themselves would then be competing for the same "hard to get" commodities. A knock on effect.

[morbosfist]

why do you assume the LA would fight fair? oh and watch Company of Thieves and see how easily our ships get taken out in an ambush. report false data to the Tau'ri, and when the ship drops out, immediately fire on it. if necessary calculate a highly probable course of the 304, and plant nukes. no need for ubernukes, just a few thousands kiloton-range nukes will suffice. look for your nearest Alien Earth planet for a healthy supply. give them a tel'tak as payment. they happy with advanced alien tech, we have lots of cheap nukes.

The LA didn't exactly scream subterfuge when they went in guns blazing trying to take Icarus.

this is not the goauld we're talking about. a cloaked cargo ship dropping a nuke over the outpost would suffice. or simply have any odd Ha'tak bombard the place from orbit first.
might get destroyed in the process but who cares. it's like loosing a bowman to destroy a nuke.

That assumes they could find it and successfully nuke it. It's miles under the ice.

assuming the device wasn't destroyed in EATG. or that the LA didn't bomb the building it was in. or anything worse.

Why would that device, which was kept at the SGC, be gone? Moreover, the bombing thing is coming right out of nowhere.

even a portion would yield a dozen ha'tak with ease. watch Reckoning. there must be hundreds if not thousands of ha'tak.

100 ha'tak is only a single goauld sector. he stil has an empire to protect, y'know.

Protect from what? THe man ran the entire Goa'uld empire. All of it. He had no enemies, no rivals, no opposition. There did not exist a single thing that could challenge him. Qetesh made that point at the start. There aren't that many Ha'taks. Look at "Reckoning". There weren't that many dots on the tracker.

oh and wraith ships are utter, total and complete crap. if you need to be that big for such power....

Power that far surpasses a Ha'tak. Think what you want, but a Hive would dominate a Ha'tak in single combat.

if 1 ha'tak requires 10 minutes to defeat a 304
2 ha'tak require 5 minutes to defeat a ha'tak
10 will require 1 minute
100 will require 10 seconds.

focus fire is the answer to all problems. if 30 ha'tak showed up, two fired immediately at the arctic outpost and 2 at Area 51, and the other 26 attack 1 304 at a time, our fleet is in ruins pretty fast.

Three couldn't beat the Hammond and it wasn't even fighting back. Your scenario makes the assumption that they're firing on a stationary target that isn't shooting back. If Ha'taks are dying every few seconds, that puts a big dent in your idea.

[thekillman]

The LA didn't exactly scream subterfuge when they went in guns blazing trying to take Icarus.

were they trying to take it? i never got the feeling they were trying to take Icarus. just to thwart earth's plans of dialing Destiny. essentially, IMO, Telford gave them the signal that they were getting progress, the LA person in charge freaked out and attempted to destroy or at least severely damage the facility. obviously Rush dialling the 9th chevron and blowing the planet as a result wasn't incalculated.

That assumes they could find it and successfully nuke it. It's miles under the ice.

find it? they obviously have spies in our rank. surely there's some data there. Baal knows where it is, so they could've accessed one of his many ships and gotten the data. you assume they won't plan anything and "just" do it.

also, given the size and power of SG nukes, it surely can get down there. hell, they can even RING a nuke down there.

Why would that device, which was kept at the SGC, be gone? Moreover, the bombing thing is coming right out of nowhere.

it was at area 51. two darts coming in at hypersonic or so speeds would cause a LOT of shrapnell to fly around. cue a big piece of metal flying through the air and impaling random scientists and the device.

bombing? why not? an al'kesh can bomb the facility via a very late hyperspace dropout (Lost City), and then within half a minute be at the planet's surface. long before that bombs can already drop.

other possibility: they use brainwash tech to plant bombs and destroy Area 51.

Protect from what? THe man ran the entire Goa'uld empire. All of it. He had no enemies, no rivals, no opposition. There did not exist a single thing that could challenge him. Qetesh made that point at the start. There aren't that many Ha'taks. Look at "Reckoning". There weren't that many dots on the tracker.

episodes like Deadman's switch suggest that there are rogue people. also Apophis was the last brought in.


Reckoning shows about 15-20 ha'tak, in a very small portion of the galaxy. extrapolate and you get hundreds. Dakara alone had a permanent guard of like a dozen ha'tak.

Power that far surpasses a Ha'tak. Think what you want, but a Hive would dominate a Ha'tak in single combat.

for an 11km long ship, a hive is utter crap. furthermore the ha'tak can hide in the Hive's central hole and pound at it.


it's power/size ratio far, FAR FAR surpasses that of a hive.

Three couldn't beat the Hammond and it wasn't even fighting back. Your scenario makes the assumption that they're firing on a stationary target that isn't shooting back. If Ha'taks are dying every few seconds, that puts a big dent in your idea.

more than half of the weaponsfire was heading to the planet, mind you. the gate was active for 6 minutes, so say the battle took 8. that's 480 seconds. for 30 ha'tak, that's one 304 down every 48 seconds.


and that's assuming, the LA didn't actually plan their attack and didn't aim at the APBW's and shield systems first. and THAT's assuming they didn't send a first wave of tel'tak filled with powerful nukes, which nuke the ships, Atlantis, and the arctic outpost, and area 51. sufficient radioactive fallout to render all sensors useless. fortunately, the LA have gotten sensor data from the tel'tak, and seconds after the fireworks, a ha'tak fleet drops out, more or less unseen. cue a hell of an orbital bombardment on every major city.

send some big nukes after the arctic, so most ice melts, causing massive flooding. send Deathgliders equipped with nuclear missiles after some other targets, like less major cities. preferably with a lot of tactical nukes to carpet-nuke anything of importance.



here you have your utter domination. Atlantis might, actually WILL survive. however since Orbit is filled with radiation from the initial strike, it's sensors are useless (The Siege), any spy sattelites are lucky not to be blasted from orbit by the nukes, but will be permanently useless due to the radiation. any potential asgard spy sats will also be in the cloud of radiation and plasma, so obviously they have no use either.


choose your way of defeating the 304's:


Za'tarc/other method of brainwashing people to make our 304's susceptible to a special signal, causing a system-wide reboot and shutting down of all power. a few seconds suffices for the nuking.

send in (cloaked/Mimic-device wearing people) onto the 304's. set off a Mark I/do above sabotaging. mark I can be replaced by any odd tactical nuke. no need for some massive nuke, a small one similar to the one in the movie is sufficient. naquahdah makes for very small nukes. simple sabotage of the shields does miracles too.


additional option: leak supposedly important information about the location of a major LA base. 304's are sent there, reducing the earth fleet's strenght.



the nuking run is a pretty important aspect of my plan. it makes earth's forces blind. again, either a ton of tactical nukes (go to your local Alien Earth or make them yourself) or a handfull really powerful ones. i suggest somewhere inbetween. like, tsara bomba type weapons, using naquahdah.


atlantis is easily dealt with: a nuke straight on it's shields. if cloaked, use brainwashing, cloaked or mimicking agents (or people using the reol chemical) to figure out where it is. it's a big, powerconsuming city so it obviously won't move a lot.

optional: send a strikeforce to capture it. using aforementioned types of agents, cloaked ships etc.

optional optional: find one of baal's ha'tak and use his beam tech, and earth beam jam codes to beam into atlantis and beam everyone else out.


arctic outpost:

a nuke will suffice. a tactical won't, but any tel'tak filled with naquahdah will do. orbital bombardment might not be fast enough.

infiltration of the outpost will work too. using any of the aforementioned methods.


Area 51:

an earlier planned bombing run will do. planting bombs will too. sabotage or whatever will too. be imaginative. tactical nuke is probably too much, but you never know. some things are worth overdoing.


major city areas:

key words: orbital bombardment, ha'tak, high-speed tel'tak suicide runs, tel'tak filled with naquahdah, tactical nukes, carpet nuking, kinetic rods, setting off a mark IX (equivalent), any old big nuke, 304 wreckage, tsunami caused by big nuke, flooding caused by big nuke/wreckage.




for fun:

a game called asteroids. take a bunch of motherships, go to your nearest supply of really big asteroids (100+ kilometer), and go drop them on earth. only way to effectively and completely deal with them is by drilling and planting nukes, the Armageddon/Deep Impact way. plasma beaming will not work since you'll get a micro asteroid shower, devastating a few trillions worth of sattelites, not to mention thousands of untraceable asteroids falling down doing lots of damage.



for even more fun: add a naquahdah core to the asteroids.

for 10x the fun: hide your tel'tak on the asteroid for your nuclear run.


for absolute hilarity: detonate the naquahdah-filled asteroid yourself, but close enough to earth to boil the oceans.



how many more options do you want? and don't give me the "but earth will" crap. earth's not magical, infallible, perfect and invincible.

[morbosfist]

were they trying to take it? i never got the feeling they were trying to take Icarus. just to thwart earth's plans of dialing Destiny. essentially, IMO, Telford gave them the signal that they were getting progress, the LA person in charge freaked out and attempted to destroy or at least severely damage the facility. obviously Rush dialling the 9th chevron and blowing the planet as a result wasn't incalculated.

They landed a troop transport. That's what you do when you want to take a facility. If they wanted to destroy it, they'd have just fired at it from orbit.

find it? they obviously have spies in our rank. surely there's some data there. Baal knows where it is, so they could've accessed one of his many ships and gotten the data. you assume they won't plan anything and "just" do it.

also, given the size and power of SG nukes, it surely can get down there. hell, they can even RING a nuke down there.

They had one spy, and Ba'al is dead (not to mention secretive). Telford may be able to give them locations, but they'd never get past the defenses. Ringing a nuke down might work, assuming the people on-site didn't send the thing right back up or disable the rings to prevent such an attack.

it was at area 51. two darts coming in at hypersonic or so speeds would cause a LOT of shrapnell to fly around. cue a big piece of metal flying through the air and impaling random scientists and the device.

bombing? why not? an al'kesh can bomb the facility via a very late hyperspace dropout (Lost City), and then within half a minute be at the planet's surface. long before that bombs can already drop.

other possibility: they use brainwash tech to plant bombs and destroy Area 51.

Seriously, brainwashing tech is not a catch-all to bypass any type of security. There's logistics involved to doing such a thing that brainwashing would not defeat.

It's highly doubtful Arthur's Mantle was destroyed. Two Darts coming in at that speed would literally vaporize on impact, and they aimed for the center building.

An Al'kesh could not bomb the facility because F-302s would shoot it down before it ever got close. They have to get close to the ground to bomb.

episodes like Deadman's switch suggest that there are rogue people. also Apophis was the last brought in.

Reckoning shows about 15-20 ha'tak, in a very small portion of the galaxy. extrapolate and you get hundreds. Dakara alone had a permanent guard of like a dozen ha'tak.

Rogues would only have a couple Ha'taks at best, if that. And Qetesh makes it clear Ba'al crushed all opposition. If there were thousands of Ha'taks, they wouldn't be massing such piddly forces. Battles would involve dozens if not hundreds of ships.

for an 11km long ship, a hive is utter crap. furthermore the ha'tak can hide in the Hive's central hole and pound at it.

it's power/size ratio far, FAR FAR surpasses that of a hive.

Still dreaming. "the ha'tak can hide in the Hive's central hole and pound at it." Are you serious? No pilot is that good. The Hive would just have to turn and the Ha'tak would get knocked out. Furthermore, a Ha'tak's power-size ratio is still inferior. Hive hulls are better than Ha'tak shields and they have more guns which are stronger. You can make excuses, but Ha'taks are the least powerful mothership class vessel in this series.

more than half of the weaponsfire was heading to the planet, mind you. the gate was active for 6 minutes, so say the battle took 8. that's 480 seconds. for 30 ha'tak, that's one 304 down every 48 seconds.

Pure fantasy. The Hammond wasn't even shooting back. Those three Ha'taks would be dead beofre that ever happened, and the Hammond never claims to be in danger of shields failing. You're making these figures up.

and that's assuming, the LA didn't actually plan their attack and didn't aim at the APBW's and shield systems first. and THAT's assuming they didn't send a first wave of tel'tak filled with powerful nukes, which nuke the ships, Atlantis, and the arctic outpost, and area 51. sufficient radioactive fallout to render all sensors useless. fortunately, the LA have gotten sensor data from the tel'tak, and seconds after the fireworks, a ha'tak fleet drops out, more or less unseen. cue a hell of an orbital bombardment on every major city.

send some big nukes after the arctic, so most ice melts, causing massive flooding. send Deathgliders equipped with nuclear missiles after some other targets, like less major cities. preferably with a lot of tactical nukes to carpet-nuke anything of importance.

here you have your utter domination. Atlantis might, actually WILL survive. however since Orbit is filled with radiation from the initial strike, it's sensors are useless (The Siege), any spy sattelites are lucky not to be blasted from orbit by the nukes, but will be permanently useless due to the radiation. any potential asgard spy sats will also be in the cloud of radiation and plasma, so obviously they have no use either.

You're giving the LA abilities they have never even remotely displayed to try to make your point work. They don't act like this, ever. They've done one ambush with space mines, that's it. When it comes to strategy, they aren't a people of subtlety. They're thugs.

choose your way of defeating the 304's:

Za'tarc/other method of brainwashing people to make our 304's susceptible to a special signal, causing a system-wide reboot and shutting down of all power. a few seconds suffices for the nuking.

send in (cloaked/Mimic-device wearing people) onto the 304's. set off a Mark I/do above sabotaging. mark I can be replaced by any odd tactical nuke. no need for some massive nuke, a small one similar to the one in the movie is sufficient. naquahdah makes for very small nukes. simple sabotage of the shields does miracles too.

additional option: leak supposedly important information about the location of a major LA base. 304's are sent there, reducing the earth fleet's strenght.

Again you try to use brainwashing to excuse flaws. No, this would never and could never happen. None of your plans are remotely feasible. Za'tarcs could not reprogram every active 304. To think that is possible is simply insane. Mimic devices would require finding every single technician. Again, not going to happen. Finally, leaked info would not get rid of all the 304s. One ship would be sent to check, if not just a team through the Stargate.

the nuking run is a pretty important aspect of my plan. it makes earth's forces blind. again, either a ton of tactical nukes (go to your local Alien Earth or make them yourself) or a handfull really powerful ones. i suggest somewhere inbetween. like, tsara bomba type weapons, using naquahdah.

Again, abilities they do not have nor have ever shown.

atlantis is easily dealt with: a nuke straight on it's shields. if cloaked, use brainwashing, cloaked or mimicking agents (or people using the reol chemical) to figure out where it is. it's a big, powerconsuming city so it obviously won't move a lot.

optional: send a strikeforce to capture it. using aforementioned types of agents, cloaked ships etc.

optional optional: find one of baal's ha'tak and use his beam tech, and earth beam jam codes to beam into atlantis and beam everyone else out.

More brainwashing excuses. Falling back on this is silly, and if you're going to use it for every conceivable option then there's nothing left to argue. It isn't some magic force that can find and affect anyone.

Strike forces have been tried and would be beaten. Beaming would not work through the cloak.

arctic outpost:

a nuke will suffice. a tactical won't, but any tel'tak filled with naquahdah will do. orbital bombardment might not be fast enough.

infiltration of the outpost will work too. using any of the aforementioned methods.

All of which I've already shown to be unfeasible.

Area 51:

an earlier planned bombing run will do. planting bombs will too. sabotage or whatever will too. be imaginative. tactical nuke is probably too much, but you never know. some things are worth overdoing

Being imaginative here means giving the LA abilities they have yet to display. They'd never do things like this.

major city areas:

key words: orbital bombardment, ha'tak, high-speed tel'tak suicide runs, tel'tak filled with naquahdah, tactical nukes, carpet nuking, kinetic rods, setting off a mark IX (equivalent), any old big nuke, 304 wreckage, tsunami caused by big nuke, flooding caused by big nuke/wreckage.

Oh, so they have suicide bombers now. There goes credibility. These people are not fanatics. They aren't going to be doing such things. The rest is just inventing abilities again.

for fun:

a game called asteroids. take a bunch of motherships, go to your nearest supply of really big asteroids (100+ kilometer), and go drop them on earth. only way to effectively and completely deal with them is by drilling and planting nukes, the Armageddon/Deep Impact way. plasma beaming will not work since you'll get a micro asteroid shower, devastating a few trillions worth of sattelites, not to mention thousands of untraceable asteroids falling down doing lots of damage.

for even more fun: add a naquahdah core to the asteroids.

for 10x the fun: hide your tel'tak on the asteroid for your nuclear run.

for absolute hilarity: detonate the naquahdah-filled asteroid yourself, but close enough to earth to boil the oceans.

And when Earth just hyperspaces them right back out?

how many more options do you want? and don't give me the "but earth will" crap. earth's not magical, infallible, perfect and invincible.

Neither are the LA so ridiculously inventive.

[garhkal]

If Atlantis is still on Earth, the "blow up a sun" strategy won't work.

Still, a sneak attack of some kind is the most likely strategy.

How do you say that? Eccho's (the 2nd ep in atlantis that had the whales) dealt with a massive solar flare. The cities shields could have protected the place. NOT so against a nova though.

That assumes they could find it and successfully nuke it. It's miles under the ice.

BUT it has a ring transporter. Park a hatak or alkesh over the area, and ring down.

Why would that device, which was kept at the SGC, be gone? Moreover, the bombing thing is coming right out of nowhere.

watch enemy at the gates. The Wraith destroyed it (it was in area 51).. well the chair was.

and that's assuming, the LA didn't actually plan their attack and didn't aim at the APBW's and shield systems first. and THAT's assuming they didn't send a first wave of tel'tak filled with powerful nukes, which nuke the ships, Atlantis, and the arctic outpost, and area 51. sufficient radioactive fallout to render all sensors useless. fortunately, the LA have gotten sensor data from the tel'tak, and seconds after the fireworks, a ha'tak fleet drops out, more or less unseen. cue a hell of an orbital bombardment on every major city.

Good point. WE don't know what they know of our tech on the 304s.. for all we know they could have the intel on how to build their own one, but lakc the tech/tools to do so.

send in (cloaked/Mimic-device wearing people) onto the 304's. set off a Mark I/do above sabotaging. mark I can be replaced by any odd tactical nuke. no need for some massive nuke, a small one similar to the one in the movie is sufficient. naquahdah makes for very small nukes. simple sabotage of the shields does miracles too.

Hell.. just a small naquida reactor set to overload...

for fun:

a game called asteroids. take a bunch of motherships, go to your nearest supply of really big asteroids (100+ kilometer), and go drop them on earth. only way to effectively and completely deal with them is by drilling and planting nukes, the Armageddon/Deep Impact way. plasma beaming will not work since you'll get a micro asteroid shower, devastating a few trillions worth of sattelites, not to mention thousands of untraceable asteroids falling down doing lots of damage.



for even more fun: add a naquahdah core to the asteroids.

for 10x the fun: hide your tel'tak on the asteroid for your nuclear run.


for absolute hilarity: detonate the naquahdah-filled asteroid yourself, but close enough to earth to boil the oceans.



how many more options do you want? and don't give me the "but earth will" crap. earth's not magical, infallible, perfect and invincible.

heck even just detonating one in orbit will be nasty...

They had one spy, and Ba'al is dead

I'll give you Ba'al, but how do we know they only had 1 spy? Hell, it would to me, make them even more stupid than they were in SG1 if they DID..

You're giving the LA abilities they have never even remotely displayed to try to make your point work. They don't act like this, ever. They've done one ambush with space mines, that's it. When it comes to strategy, they aren't a people of subtlety. They're thugs.

if they were thugs how did they take the Oddesy? How did they storm and almost take the destiny?

Again, abilities they do not have nor have ever shown.

Did we know the destiny could sun dive, till it did? NO so, don't say the LA could not do x..

Being imaginative here means giving the LA abilities they have yet to display. They'd never do things like this.

That's what people thought irl about Al'Quedaia.... LOOK where that got us.
That is also what the Gou'ald thought about us Tau'ri... look where it got THEM.

And when Earth just hyperspaces them right back out?

So how many asteroids can you do that to? 5 at a time? While that keeps your 304;s occupied who is guarding the planet?